Michael Jackson

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Here’s a friendly reminder of what TMZ reported on Smollett..,


White men, broken ribs, brutally beaten.., 😂

All of it was wrong.

..and yet, there’s people in this thread who are suggesting to vet a legal deposition by reading TMZ reports.


What has happened to human brains when they’ve reached a point where they can’t distinguish between tabloid trash and facts??
Utterly insane.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Here’s a friendly reminder of what TMZ reported on Smollett..,


White men, broken ribs, brutally beaten.., 😂

All of it was wrong.

..and yet, there’s people in this thread who are suggesting to vet a legal deposition by reading TMZ reports.


What has happened to human brains when they’ve reached a point where they can’t distinguish between tabloid trash and facts??
Utterly insane.
Stop bringing up Jussie Smollett. Everyone agrees he staged a hoax.

Respond to my previous post. Admit you provided incorrect information.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Stop bringing up Jussie Smollett. Everyone agrees he staged a hoax.

Respond to my previous post. Admit you provided incorrect information.

You told me to “vet” my info, by providing an article which was centered around TMZ reports.

If you can’t see how ridiculous that is, which it doesn’t look like you do.. then please, troll elsewhere. Like I said, there’s no point in convo with that comprehension level.

Oh, and ‘everyone believed it was a hoax’ after the media told them to believe it was a hoax.lol. There were many people, like me, who didn’t need to be told what to think...it’s called applying logic based on the info available. :)
 
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Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
You told me to “vet” my info, by providing an article which was centered around TMZ reports.

If you can’t see how ridiculous that is, which it doesn’t look like you do.. then please, troll elsewhere. Like I said, there’s no point in convo with that comprehension level.

Oh, and ‘everyone believed it was a hoax’ after the media told them to believe it was a hoax.lol. There were many people, like me, who didn’t need to be told what to think...it’s called applying logic based on the info available. :)

Don’t change the subject. I would like you to admit that you were incorrect about certain details about Robson’s career. Only then can I assume you are willing to talk in good faith. Otherwise, you are deliberately spreading misinformation.

EDIT: I deleted a previous post because, you are correct, it did reference TMZ reporting. That doesn’t make it right or wrong. Though they have been right before.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Don’t change the subject. I would like you to admit that you were incorrect about certain details about Robson’s career. Only then can I assume you are willing to talk in good faith. Otherwise, you are deliberately spreading misinformation.

EDIT: I deleted a previous post because, you are correct, it did reference TMZ reporting. That doesn’t make it right or wrong. Though they have been right before.

Do you read what you link, prior to linking it? Did you not realize that you linked something with unnamed sources contradictory to what Wade himself had said?
Do you take the time to understand something before pretending like you know what it says?

Do you see the difference in your previous (now deleted once realized how foolish) article, and the Urban Meyer article? Or did you not read that one either?
I’ll help ya out- this one contains a direct excerpt from Urban’s own statement, not vague ‘sources’.

This is my final comment to you, because it is clear that you do not understand anything I listed in this post, as in the concept itself, what ‘good information’ is, and is not.

Good luck.
 
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Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Do you read what you link, prior to linking it? Did you not realize that you linked something with unnamed sources contradictory to what Wade himself had said?
Do you take the time to understand something before pretending like you know what it says?

Do you see the difference in your previous (now deleted once realized how foolish) article, and the Urban Meyer article? Or did you not read that one either?
I’ll help ya out- this one contains a direct excerpt from Urban’s own statement, not vague ‘sources’.

This is my final comment to you, because it is clear that you do not understand anything I listed in this post, as in the concept itself, what ‘good information’ is, and is not.

Good luck.
Can it with your faux superior intelligence schtick. I forgot a single line from that article referenced TMZ before diving deeper into a relatively unknown psychology study, which was largely the point of my post.

Though you dismissing TMZ (which I don’t praise as wonderful journalistic integrity either, though that doesn’t mean they haven’t been right before) when you’re a Daily Wire/Breitbart reader is hilarious. That’s a completely tone deaf reaction.

No wonder everyone actually believed you haven't completed your GED yet.

If you can’t even admit that you were incorrect about a fairly minute detail, and let’s be frank, you haven’t even passingly acknowledged an error, then I have no ambition to debate with you in good faith.

I hope you can sleep comfortably, as a mother, knowing your love of his music excuses child molestation.
 
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21stamps

Well-Known Member
🤦‍♀️

Knowing the difference between legit content, as in direct quotes or copy & paste from an official document vs unnamed “sources” and speculation, is a fundamental requirement to understanding the weight of what you’re reading.

TMZ, Breitbart, it doesn’t matter... understanding what you’re reading is what matters.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
🤦‍♀️

Knowing the difference between legit content, as in direct quotes or copy & paste from an official document vs unnamed “sources” and speculation, is a fundamental requirement to understanding the weight of what you’re reading.

TMZ, Breitbart, it doesn’t matter... understanding what you’re reading is what matters.
Nope, the where matters quite a bit.

It’s the difference between knowledge acquisition, which is your blind spot, and confirmation bias, which is more your style.

It’s the difference between outlets with credible investigative journalists (New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times.....) and glorified bloggers (Daily Wire, Breitbart). You know what good journalists do? They don’t work for Daily Wire and Breitbart.

If you actually did worry yourself about the what, then you would have already corrected your error regarding Wade Robson’s career. You haven’t. With you, the what only matters when it passes an if test.
 
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21stamps

Well-Known Member
Nope, there where matters quite abut.

It’s the difference between knowledge acquisition, which is your blind spot, and confirmation bias, which is more your style.

It’s the difference between outlets with credible investigative journalists (New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times.....) and glorified bloggers (Daily Wire, Breitbart). You know what good journalists do? They don’t work for Daily Wire and Breitbart.

If you actually did worry yourself about the what, then you would have already corrected your error regarding Wade Robson’s career. You haven’t. With you, the what only matters when it passes an if test.

I’ll respond because I really do worry about your ability to comprehend the differences between legit reporting, and when you read “sources”....

TMZ-

“Empire" star Jussie Smollett was brutally attacked by 2 men who beat him up, put his head in a noose and screamed, "This is MAGA country."

Sources directly connected to Jussie tell TMZ, the actor arrived in Chicago from New York late Monday, and at around 2 AM he was hungry and went to a Subway. We're told when shortly after he walked out on his way home, someone yelled, "Aren't you that f***ot 'Empire' n*****?"

The 2 men -- both white and wearing ski masks -- viciously attacked Jussie as he fought back, but they beat him badly and fractured a rib. They put a rope around his neck, poured bleach on him and as they left they yelled, "This is MAGA country."


Also TMZ-

Urban Meyer admits he knew about the 2015 Zach Smith domestic violence incident -- but lied to the media when asked about it on BIG10 Media Day last month.

But the catch ... Meyer says he followed proper protocol behind the scenes and elevated the incident to "proper channels."

The Ohio State football coach spelled it out in a statement saying ...

"Here is the truth: While at the University of Florida, and now at The Ohio State University, I have always followed proper reporting protocols and procedures when I have learned of an incident involving a student-athlete, coach or member of our staff by elevating the issues to the proper channels. And, I did so regarding the Zach Smith incident in 2015."

"I take that responsibility very seriously and any suggestions to the contrary is simply false."

He added, "My words, whether in a reply to a reporter's question or in addressing a personnel issue, must be clear, compassionate and most of all, completely accurate. Unfortunately, at Big Ten Media Days on July 24th, I failed on may of these fronts."

"My intention was not to say anything inaccurate or misleading. However, I was not adequately prepared to discuss these sensitive personnel issues with the media, and I apologize for the way I handled those questions."

As we previously reported, Zach Smith was fired as the WR coach at Ohio State last month when domestic violence allegations went public.


——-


Until you can figure out the difference between the two articles, you will always live in a tabloid world, not knowing how to distinguish factual reporting of an event, and an article full of speculation and/or lies.


This is really the core of the problem, so many people unable to distinguish between the two. Then we end up with people complaining about production value of a legal deposition, yet heralding a one sided proven flawed documentary as truth, assigning extra time of abuse to alleged victims who never assigned that extra time themselves, and claiming “repressed memory of abuse victims” even while the alleged victims in this specific story are not claiming repressed memory.

I could say the problem is with the media, but in reality, they’re just taking advantage of a dumbed-down-sensationalism-craving-comprehension-challenged public. I guess they figure, why not make money off of that.
 
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Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
I’ll respond because I really do worry about your ability to comprehend the differences between legit reporting, and when you read “sources”....

TMZ-

“Empire" star Jussie Smollett was brutally attacked by 2 men who beat him up, put his head in a noose and screamed, "This is MAGA country."

Sources directly connected to Jussie tell TMZ, the actor arrived in Chicago from New York late Monday, and at around 2 AM he was hungry and went to a Subway. We're told when shortly after he walked out on his way home, someone yelled, "Aren't you that f***ot 'Empire' n*****?"

The 2 men -- both white and wearing ski masks -- viciously attacked Jussie as he fought back, but they beat him badly and fractured a rib. They put a rope around his neck, poured bleach on him and as they left they yelled, "This is MAGA country."


Also TMZ-

Urban Meyer admits he knew about the 2015 Zach Smith domestic violence incident -- but lied to the media when asked about it on BIG10 Media Day last month.

But the catch ... Meyer says he followed proper protocol behind the scenes and elevated the incident to "proper channels."

The Ohio State football coach spelled it out in a statement saying ...

"Here is the truth: While at the University of Florida, and now at The Ohio State University, I have always followed proper reporting protocols and procedures when I have learned of an incident involving a student-athlete, coach or member of our staff by elevating the issues to the proper channels. And, I did so regarding the Zach Smith incident in 2015."

"I take that responsibility very seriously and any suggestions to the contrary is simply false."

He added, "My words, whether in a reply to a reporter's question or in addressing a personnel issue, must be clear, compassionate and most of all, completely accurate. Unfortunately, at Big Ten Media Days on July 24th, I failed on may of these fronts."

"My intention was not to say anything inaccurate or misleading. However, I was not adequately prepared to discuss these sensitive personnel issues with the media, and I apologize for the way I handled those questions."

As we previously reported, Zach Smith was fired as the WR coach at Ohio State last month when domestic violence allegations went public.


——-
Until you can figure out the difference between the two articles, you will always live in a tabloid world, not knowing how to distinguish factual reporting of an event, and an article full of speculation and/or lies.[/quote]

The difference between the two stories is night-and-day. I used the Urban Meyer story to drag his disgusting name through the mud again, just to rile you up. I said several pages ago, when, wrong as you always are, you accused me of trolling that I would tell you when I was trolling.

With this instance, I was trolling you.

This is really the core of the problem, so many people unable to distinguish between the two. Then we end up with people complaining about production value of a legal deposition, yet heralding a one sided proven flawed documentary as truth, assigning extra time of abuse to alleged victims who never assigned that extra time themselves, and claiming “repressed memory of abuse victims” even while the alleged victims in this specific story are not claiming repressed memory.

I could say the problem is with the media, but in reality, they’re just taking advantage of a dumbed-down-sensationalism-craving-comprehension-challenged public. I guess they figure, why not make money off of that.

You literally fell for that with the Blast story that Robson begged for a job. That’s sensationalism at its finest, and you got duped.

Further, let’s go back to your continually unfounded accusations of people failing to comprehend their reading. I have asked you, on several occasions already, whether you believed the details of Robson’s career in the following post were accurate:


‘Provable Facts- Wade Robson had a nervous breakdown during directing Happy Feet, removed from project.’

I have acknowledged the incorrectness is largely trivial, but I have asked you, point blank, if you believed this very easily verifiable information to be true or not. You have, on multiple occasions, ignored my question and danced around the answer. Do you have reading comprehension issues, and didn’t understand what my question was? I would still appreciate a reply.

It’s trivial, but for someone who has a tendency of asking specific questions to people, you should follow your own rules and provide an answer directed to you.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Here’s a friendly reminder of what TMZ reported on Smollett..,


White men, broken ribs, brutally beaten.., 😂

All of it was wrong.

..and yet, there’s people in this thread who are suggesting to vet a legal deposition by reading TMZ reports.


What has happened to human brains when they’ve reached a point where they can’t distinguish between tabloid trash and facts??
Utterly insane.
Thanks tucker Carlson...we know...the guy lied. Move on.
Stop bringing up Jussie Smollett. Everyone agrees he staged a hoax.

Respond to my previous post. Admit you provided incorrect information.
Exactly...as if one moron in Hollywood justifies the pretty hateful spew she oozes here.

Did anyone see this the other day:

It’s newscorp...so anyone watching faux news can’t claim “fake news” 🙄

I will say...the reason I saw it was we saw Michael Jackson: One in Vegas last weekend and I saw the Sheryl crow thing pop up on a search.

The show was amazing and it only reaffirmed what I had thought since 93: you have to be able to separate the art from the artist. Creative minds are often disturbed to adjust to what we consider “normal” parameters.

The guy was guilty as sin...a rational person would only come to that conclusion.

...i debated wether I want to support the show. But the songs live on their own. The human nature/never can say goodbye montage was worth the price...to say nothing of man in the mirror...
Which BY THE WAY...had the single creepiest/cringiest moment of the show...and should be removed.
 
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21stamps

Well-Known Member
Thanks tucker Carlson...we know...the guy lied. Move on.

You missed the first line in that post, and the relevance.

Exactly...as if one moron in Hollywood justifies the pretty hateful spew she oozes here.

Did anyone see this the other day:

Yes, it has been copy and pasted in every single news and tabloid site. Coincidentally it coincides with her new album release, and is also in direct conflict with every prior interview or statement she’s ever said about touring with MJ.

Have you read/seen her prior interviews, by any chance?

Have you seen her social media posts as recent as 2017 pertaining to the Bad tour?
I have, I’m actually a fan of her music. If you haven’t, then you may realize that your bombshell article is one more thing in a long line of trendy sensationalism.

Out of curiosity, Did you hear the recent interview with MJ’s guitarist of 2 decades, or the one with his choreographers of 17+ years, or his drummer of similar time frame, what about his music director on half of the Bad tour and entire History tours?

I’m going to go with an assumed “no” on all of the above in that paragraph, because again, it would make the Sheryl Crow article a little less relevant... and would make someone think twice prior to posting it.

I will say...the reason I saw it was we saw Michael Jackson: One in Vegas last weekend and I saw the Sheryl crow thing pop up on a search.

I will be there on the 29th. Looking forward to it.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
I have acknowledged the incorrectness is largely trivial, but I have asked you, point blank, if you believed this very easily verifiable information to be true or not. You have, on multiple occasions, ignored my question and danced around the answer. Do you have reading comprehension issues, and didn’t understand what my question was? I would still appreciate a reply.

It’s trivial, but for someone who has a tendency of asking specific questions to people, you should follow your own rules and provide an answer directed to you.

Still waiting, Stamps.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member

The anguished voice of Wade Robson’sfather will always haunt me. Back in 1993, when the first charges of sexual abuse were leveled at Michael Jackson by a 13-year-old boy named Jordan “Jordie” Chandler, I was assigned to write about the case for Vanity Fair. I naturally wanted to know if Jackson had befriended any other young boys, and it wasn’t long before I heard the names Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck.

Wade’s mother, Joy, wasn’t talking, but his father, Dennis, surprised me by returning my call from his home in Australia. Dennis explained that Joy had taken Wade and his sister to Los Angeles so Wade could be with Jackson, adding that he was afraid that he might lose his son if he said anything against the pop superstar. Dennis’s sorrow was compounded by his own dark secret: he himself had been molested as a child, he told me, and had been unable to bring himself to tell anyone for 30 years.

Then, a week later, Dennis Robson called me back. He had just gotten through to his wife and now he wanted to change his story and give me a quote praising Jackson. I asked him what had prompted this sudden change of heart. He paused. It was all just a mixup, he said. Dennis, who had been diagnosed as bipolar shortly before his wife left, never got over losing his family, all because his son, then five, had won a local dance contest, and the first prize was a meeting with his idol, Michael Jackson.

In 2002, Dennis Robson committed suicide. In the new HBO documentary Leaving Neverland,Wade Robson says he never fully understood what caused his father’s pain; his father died without ever being close to his son again.

The two-part documentary, which premieres on HBO this Sunday, gives Robson and Safechuck, together with their surviving family members, the opportunity to tell their stories of being first befriended and then seduced, emotionally and—they allege—sexually, by Michael Jackson. What struck me most, as someone who spent more than a decade reporting on allegations against Jackson, was how closely Robson’s and Safechuck’s stories mirrored those of Jordie Chandler and Gavin Arvizo, the 13-year-old whose allegations prompted the 2005 trial in which Jackson was acquitted on 10 felony counts, including four counts of child molestation and one of attempted child molestation. Another boy, Jason Francia,whose mother worked as a housekeeper for Jackson, testified under oath that he was molested by Jackson, bringing to five the number of young men who’ve sworn that Jackson showed them ography, masturbated them, or introduced them to sex when they were between the ages of 7 and 12.

So many details of each case were the same: the targeting of boys from troubled families, the skillful grooming, the gifts, the seduction, the Jacuzzis, the way sex was performed, the fear and threats of what would befall them if they ever told anyone what Jackson had done. Their dismissals followed a similar pattern, too: as puberty approached, Robson and Safechuck say in the documentary, they were abruptly thrown to the curb and replaced with a new, younger kid.

Even their families got similar treatment: the sisters were put off to the side by Michael, the supposed adorer of all children; the parents were whisked around in limos and private jets, taken shopping, and treated to vintage wine from Neverland’s cellar. Jordie Chandler’s mother got trips to Monaco and Las Vegas, along with a diamond bracelet. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a whole house; the documentary never mentions the cars they received, or the permanent residence visa that Wade Robson’s mother testified in 2005 to having received by funneling whatever wages she had received through the Michael Jackson Corporation. Joy Robson also acknowledged accepting a car, a $10,000 payment from Jackson, and a $10,000 loan from Jackson’s investigator.

Both Robson and Safechuck previously testified under oath that Jackson never touched them, but there is good reason to believe they are telling the truth now. Ron Zonen, a prosecutor in the 2005 trial who has tried many sex-abuse cases, told me he understood why Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck came out when they did, instead of “when we needed them.” Especially for male victims, he said, “it has to be on their terms. They finally decide to disclose when the pain becomes unbearable and it’s not going to get better until they talk to somebody and tell the truth about it.”

Jackson’s hardcore supporters allege that Robson and Safechuck memorized details from the other boys’ stories in order to get revenge after their own previous attempts to sue Jackson’s estate for damages were thrown out of court (not because the charges had no merit but because the statute of limitations had run out). That seems far-fetched to me. Why would anyone put himself through this? Robson and Safechuck are not being paid by HBO. They had to come to grips not only with what happened to them but also with the complicity of those closest to them. That kind of stress can and does destroy families. Anyone who has spent time hearing victims tell their stories of sexual assault knows that it is extremely painful to recall detail after detail. You never know which one will stick in your mind, causing depression, nightmares, and P.T.S.D. It can be something as simple as a song.

The Jackson family, for its part, has filed a $100 million lawsuit against HBO, trying to prevent the documentary from being aired. Given all the money and vaunted reputations at stake, that may have seemed like the best course of action, lest viewers see and judge for themselves why two men would go to these lengths and suffer the hate being hurled at them. Robson and Safechuck say it is because they are fathers themselves now. The experience of having children summoned these tangled and terrible memories up from the depths of their psyches and spurred the need to come clean, to point their moral compasses north. Now it’s the public’s turn.

To help viewers contextualize the documentary’s presentation of what ultimately amounts to a narrow slice of a sprawling saga, here are 10 undeniable facts about the sexual-abuse allegations against Michael Jackson.
1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.

2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”

3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s . His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.

6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.

7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.

8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.

9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.

10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.

CORRECTION: Due to an editing error, an earlier version of this story misidentified the father of one of Jackson’s accusers. Wade Robson’s father, not Jimmy Safechuck’s, committed suicide. We regret the error.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
You missed the first line in that post, and the relevance.



Yes, it has been copy and pasted in every single news and tabloid site. Coincidentally it coincides with her new album release, and is also in direct conflict with every prior interview or statement she’s ever said about touring with MJ.

Have you read/seen her prior interviews, by any chance?

Have you seen her social media posts as recent as 2017 pertaining to the Bad tour?
I have, I’m actually a fan of her music. If you haven’t, then you may realize that your bombshell article is one more thing in a long line of trendy sensationalism.

Out of curiosity, Did you hear the recent interview with MJ’s guitarist of 2 decades, or the one with his choreographers of 17+ years, or his drummer of similar time frame, what about his music director on half of the Bad tour and entire History tours?

I’m going to go with an assumed “no” on all of the above in that paragraph, because again, it would make the Sheryl Crow article a little less relevant... and would make someone think twice prior to posting it.



I will be there on the 29th. Looking forward to it.

You’re defending jack-o?

Can i ask why?

First:
1. He’s dead.
2. It doesn’t matter what he did...because his estate makes close to a billion dollars a year...so the kids ain’t hurting.
3. He was an icon 30-50 years ago...so to cling seems like a “my boyfriend dumped me” kinda thing.
4. The guy at a minimum did completely poor judgement things...and as referenced in the article was protected by a wall of people (for money) that allowed him to exist in his inappropriate fantasy world.
5. He’s still dead.


Just out of curiosity - what’s your thoughts about OJ? How about Cardinal Geoghan?
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
You’re defending jack-o?

Can i ask why?

First:
1. He’s dead.
2. It doesn’t matter what he did...because his estate makes close to a billion dollars a year...so the kids ain’t hurting.
3. He was an icon 30-50 years ago...so to cling seems like a “my boyfriend dumped me” kinda thing.
4. The guy at a minimum did completely poor judgement things...and as referenced in the article was protected by a wall of people (for money) that allowed him to exist in his inappropriate fantasy world.
5. He’s still dead.


Just out of curiosity - what’s your thoughts about OJ? How about Cardinal Geoghan?
She likes his music, so she defends a child molester.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
She likes his music, so she defends a child molester.

I love his music...as did most everyone else on earth.

But at an absolute minimum, he had inappropriate conduct/behavior towards children.

And that’s not a political correctness/SJW stance. He just didn’t act correctly and maybe far worse.

Sing Billie Jean in the shower...don’t act like the guy was a saint
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
You’re defending jack-o?

Can i ask why?

First:
1. He’s dead.
2. It doesn’t matter what he did...because his estate makes close to a billion dollars a year...so the kids ain’t hurting.
3. He was an icon 30-50 years ago...so to cling seems like a “my boyfriend dumped me” kinda thing.
4. The guy at a minimum did completely poor judgement things...and as referenced in the article was protected by a wall of people (for money) that allowed him to exist in his inappropriate fantasy world.
5. He’s still dead.


Just out of curiosity - what’s your thoughts about OJ? How about Cardinal Geoghan?

You, and others, do nothing but quote articles that you’ve read in the media. You don’t understand who you are quoting, or if their stories are suddenly different. You believe what you’re told so simply, so easily, and without question. You have no wish to dig deeper.

I can’t stand to see such a mindless society, whether it’s a narrative on Michael Jackson, Brett Kavanaugh, Cov Cath kids, Crystal Magnum, or Jussie Smollett. At some point people have to want to dig deeper, to not trust anything and everything they read just because it was reported in the media.

I don’t care if someone is dead or alive, this mindless pitchfork society has gotten out of control. In love with finding victims.. completely forgetting that ‘Accuser’ and ‘Victim’ are not always synonymous.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member

The anguished voice of Wade Robson’sfather will always haunt me. Back in 1993, when the first charges of sexual abuse were leveled at Michael Jackson by a 13-year-old boy named Jordan “Jordie” Chandler, I was assigned to write about the case for Vanity Fair. I naturally wanted to know if Jackson had befriended any other young boys, and it wasn’t long before I heard the names Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck.

Wade’s mother, Joy, wasn’t talking, but his father, Dennis, surprised me by returning my call from his home in Australia. Dennis explained that Joy had taken Wade and his sister to Los Angeles so Wade could be with Jackson, adding that he was afraid that he might lose his son if he said anything against the pop superstar. Dennis’s sorrow was compounded by his own dark secret: he himself had been molested as a child, he told me, and had been unable to bring himself to tell anyone for 30 years.

Then, a week later, Dennis Robson called me back. He had just gotten through to his wife and now he wanted to change his story and give me a quote praising Jackson. I asked him what had prompted this sudden change of heart. He paused. It was all just a mixup, he said. Dennis, who had been diagnosed as bipolar shortly before his wife left, never got over losing his family, all because his son, then five, had won a local dance contest, and the first prize was a meeting with his idol, Michael Jackson.

In 2002, Dennis Robson committed suicide. In the new HBO documentary Leaving Neverland,Wade Robson says he never fully understood what caused his father’s pain; his father died without ever being close to his son again.

The two-part documentary, which premieres on HBO this Sunday, gives Robson and Safechuck, together with their surviving family members, the opportunity to tell their stories of being first befriended and then seduced, emotionally and—they allege—sexually, by Michael Jackson. What struck me most, as someone who spent more than a decade reporting on allegations against Jackson, was how closely Robson’s and Safechuck’s stories mirrored those of Jordie Chandler and Gavin Arvizo, the 13-year-old whose allegations prompted the 2005 trial in which Jackson was acquitted on 10 felony counts, including four counts of child molestation and one of attempted child molestation. Another boy, Jason Francia,whose mother worked as a housekeeper for Jackson, testified under oath that he was molested by Jackson, bringing to five the number of young men who’ve sworn that Jackson showed them ****ography, masturbated them, or introduced them to sex when they were between the ages of 7 and 12.

So many details of each case were the same: the targeting of boys from troubled families, the skillful grooming, the gifts, the seduction, the Jacuzzis, the way sex was performed, the fear and threats of what would befall them if they ever told anyone what Jackson had done. Their dismissals followed a similar pattern, too: as puberty approached, Robson and Safechuck say in the documentary, they were abruptly thrown to the curb and replaced with a new, younger kid.

Even their families got similar treatment: the sisters were put off to the side by Michael, the supposed adorer of all children; the parents were whisked around in limos and private jets, taken shopping, and treated to vintage wine from Neverland’s cellar. Jordie Chandler’s mother got trips to Monaco and Las Vegas, along with a diamond bracelet. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a whole house; the documentary never mentions the cars they received, or the permanent residence visa that Wade Robson’s mother testified in 2005 to having received by funneling whatever wages she had received through the Michael Jackson Corporation. Joy Robson also acknowledged accepting a car, a $10,000 payment from Jackson, and a $10,000 loan from Jackson’s investigator.

Both Robson and Safechuck previously testified under oath that Jackson never touched them, but there is good reason to believe they are telling the truth now. Ron Zonen, a prosecutor in the 2005 trial who has tried many sex-abuse cases, told me he understood why Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck came out when they did, instead of “when we needed them.” Especially for male victims, he said, “it has to be on their terms. They finally decide to disclose when the pain becomes unbearable and it’s not going to get better until they talk to somebody and tell the truth about it.”

Jackson’s hardcore supporters allege that Robson and Safechuck memorized details from the other boys’ stories in order to get revenge after their own previous attempts to sue Jackson’s estate for damages were thrown out of court (not because the charges had no merit but because the statute of limitations had run out). That seems far-fetched to me. Why would anyone put himself through this? Robson and Safechuck are not being paid by HBO. They had to come to grips not only with what happened to them but also with the complicity of those closest to them. That kind of stress can and does destroy families. Anyone who has spent time hearing victims tell their stories of sexual assault knows that it is extremely painful to recall detail after detail. You never know which one will stick in your mind, causing depression, nightmares, and P.T.S.D. It can be something as simple as a song.

The Jackson family, for its part, has filed a $100 million lawsuit against HBO, trying to prevent the documentary from being aired. Given all the money and vaunted reputations at stake, that may have seemed like the best course of action, lest viewers see and judge for themselves why two men would go to these lengths and suffer the hate being hurled at them. Robson and Safechuck say it is because they are fathers themselves now. The experience of having children summoned these tangled and terrible memories up from the depths of their psyches and spurred the need to come clean, to point their moral compasses north. Now it’s the public’s turn.

To help viewers contextualize the documentary’s presentation of what ultimately amounts to a narrow slice of a sprawling saga, here are 10 undeniable facts about the sexual-abuse allegations against Michael Jackson.
1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.

2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”

3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s *****. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.

6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.

7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.

8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.

9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.

10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.

CORRECTION: Due to an editing error, an earlier version of this story misidentified the father of one of Jackson’s accusers. Wade Robson’s father, not Jimmy Safechuck’s, committed suicide. We regret the error.


You are quoting a woman who claimed that Michael Jackson bathed in sheep’s blood and had voodoo spells put on his enemies.. and wore a prosthetic nose.

She eventually had to recant her blood /voodoo story, as it was complete bs.

The prosthetic nose was proven false by the autopsy.

Again with the tabloid trash, not understanding who and what you’re quoting. Clinging to people like that instead of real stories, proven facts, and testimony from people close to him.


Thanks for proving me right again. :)
If you ever learn how to differentiate between legit journalism and the opposite, or take the time to read/listen/watch those who knew both Wade and James, then get back to me.
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
I love his music...as did most everyone else on earth.

But at an absolute minimum, he had inappropriate conduct/behavior towards children.

And that’s not a political correctness/SJW stance. He just didn’t act correctly and maybe far worse.

Sing Billie Jean in the shower...don’t act like the guy was a saint
I love his music, and I will continue to listen to it because it’s amazing workout music.

I’m able to separate the artist from the person without issue. His estate never did anything wrong, and he’s dead, so no reason to punish them.
 

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