Michael Jackson

[Tony Perkis]

What the hell is your issue? I am no Jussie Smollett apologist, That is a completely dead issue. He staged the whole thing. Old news. No one has brought that up here except you, and you have brought it up in every post. It is over. Smollett has been denounced. Her will probably go to jail. What more do you want?

This poster is clearly of below average rationale and integrity.

Better trolls are more worthy of this discussion. Not this guy/gal.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Have a nice life, however ridiculous you choose to live it.

Wait. I thought I was going on ignore? Hahahahaha! Just can’t get me out of your head, can you? That’s alright though, we all knew you were THAT guy. You have a nice life too, no matter how ignorantly you choose to live it.

 

[JusticeDisney]

What the hell is your issue? I am no Jussie Smollett apologist, That is a completely dead issue. He staged the whole thing. Old news. No one has brought that up here except you, and you have brought it up in every post. It is over. Smollett has been denounced. Her will probably go to jail. What more do you want?

You believed Jussie Smollett. Fact.

And you got caught lying in this thread. Fact.

Both of those things speak volumes about you. Fact.

 

[JusticeDisney]

This poster is clearly of below average rationale and integrity.

Better trolls are more worthy of this discussion. Not this guy/gal.

That’s why you have to keep running back here and responding, despite saying you were going to ignore me. You just can’t help yourself. Hahaha! So pathetic.

Living in your head. Rent free.

Not surprising, given your mental makeup.

 

[BuddyThomas]

You believed Jussie Smollett. Fact.

And you got caught lying in this thread. Fact.

Both of those things speak volumes about you. Fact.

There is something wrong with you.

 

[JusticeDisney]

There is something wrong with you.

Yep. Keep blaming others for your shortcomings. See how far that gets you in life.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Yep. Keep blaming others for your shortcomings. See how far that gets you in life.

Keep being the center of every storm on here. That’s how people get banned. You totally derailed the Hagrid thread and now you have totally derailed this one. All you do is insult others, which is against board rules. I suggest that you check yourself very quickly. Like I said, I’m not in the habit of reporting people,but hurl one more insult at me or anyone else and you are getting reported.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Keep being the center of every storm on here. That’s how people get banned. You totally derailed the Hagrid thread and now you have totally derailed this one. All you do is insult others, which is against board rules. I suggest that you check yourself very quickly. Like I said, I’m not in the habit of reporting people,but hurl one more insult at me or anyone else and you are getting reported.

First off, as has already been established, I did nothing in that other thread besides respond to someone attacking me. That’s where you got caught lying. Not a good look for you.

As for this thread, YOU are the one who engaged me. I didn’t say a single thing to you or do anything to “derail” this thread. You started this whole thing with me and now you don’t like where it has gotten you. Maybe think before attacking someone next time.

As for your threats, gimme a break. You have done nothing but personally insult me throughout this thread. Guess we have the classic internet tough guy here who can dish it out but can’t take it.

Anyway, I’m done wasting my time with the likes of you. Now, go ahead and get the last word in because you and I both know that you simply cannot help yourself. You are indeed THAT guy. So, have at it and make it a good one!

#freejessiesmollett

 

[21stamps]

Obviously, some, including me, believed the Smollett stuff too soon, before everything came out. Now that all the facts are out on Smollett, not one single person here is endorsing him in any way.

The Michael Jackson stuff is hardly a far fetched story. It's pretty easy to connect the dots, unless you just want to keep your head in the sand and not see the dots.

Ok, let’s try this another way, I’ll give just a few points (out of many), and you tell me how they make sense..

Claim- Being abused in a train station.
Provable Fact- Train Station didn’t exist at that time.

Claim- Abuse started at Neverland, while kid was left behind while his family went to the Grand Canyon.
Provable Fact- Both Wade and his mother testified multiple times over several years (including a few months prior to filming Leaving Neverland) that he was also in Grand Canyon with his family, not at Neverland.

Claim- Michael Jackson told kid to hate women and stay away from them.
Provable Fact- Kid dated Jackson’s niece for several years, being introduced by- Jackson, hanging out with her at Jackson’s house.

Then there’s the oh-so-emotional scene in the film, ya know, the one where Wade burns MJ clothing items..
but wait, then Juliens Auctions comes out and publicly states that Wade has auctioned those items several years prior. Another Provable Fact.

Provable Facts- Wade Robson had a nervous breakdown during directing Happy Feet, removed from project.
Begs the Michael Jackson Estate to hire him to choreograph their upcoming Cirque show.
Is passed up for a different choreographer.
Has no work prospects.
Several months later starts shopping a book about being abused by MJ, book is rejected by publishers.
Then, files a 1.5 billion dollar lawsuit against the Estate, says they are responsible for his new claim of sexual abuse (contradicting decades of glowing praise for Jackson, before and after MJ’s death). Claims that his lawsuit is valid because he didn’t know there was an “estate”, but his own emails contradict this.



How do you reconcile this without seeing any red flags?
I’m asking in earnest.

There’s several more if you would like me to provide additional claims vs provable facts.

 

[21stamps]

Is it possible that Wade did indeed look at his young son and feel guilt... but not because of abuse.. because he left his father to find a surrogate in MJ, at the aggressive insistence of his mother... father eventually commits suicide. Now, being a father himself, he realizes the error in his decisions, hopes his son never does the same. Couple that with a career in shambles, and he decides to lie to obtain 1.5 billion dollars, in some sick justification for what he did to his own dad.

Is that not a possibility?
Would that not be a little more believable based on all of the red flags and conflicting stories that he has told regarding the alleged abuse?

Abuse is the perfect claim. Can’t be proven. The only thing a judge and the public can do is use LOGIC when considering the many discrepancies vs the claims. There is no way that we can use critical thought and simultaneously say that Jackson was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The story from Wade and James is as equally coherent as 2 MAGA guys jumping Jussie Smollett in a hate crime during sub zero temps.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Ok, let’s try this another way, I’ll give just a few points (out of many), and you tell me how they make sense..

Claim- Being abused in a train station.
Provable Fact- Train Station didn’t exist at that time.

Incomplete information. The train station that you’re repeatedly identifying was indeed built in 1993/1994.

However, Neverland Ranch did open in 1990, so the location does place Safechuck there. The photographs presented in the film were not standard images found online, but from Safechuck, also placing him in Neverland Ranch in 1993/1994.

Additionally, he asserts that Michael Jackson molested him in multiple locations, and well into his teenage years. This does conflict with a testimony he gave stating the abuse stopped in 1992, but given the fact that traumatic events have the effect of memory on victims, something that is widely agreed upon to exist, he could be mixing up a specific building or time.

This is the murkiest detail because there on conflicts by both sides of the argument and at several different instances in time.

It’s not enough to derail an entire traumatic experience, which frankly, is a disgusting tactic you are using to negate something that SEVERAL people have described.

Claim- Abuse started at Neverland, while kid was left behind while his family went to the Grand Canyon.
Provable Fact- Both Wade and his mother testified multiple times over several years (including a few months prior to filming Leaving Neverland) that he was also in Grand Canyon with his family, not at Neverland.

Addressed in a previous post.

Claim- Michael Jackson told kid to hate women and stay away from them.
Provable Fact- Kid dated Jackson’s niece for several years, being introduced by- Jackson, hanging out with her at Jackson’s house.

Two unrelated points.

Then there’s the oh-so-emotional scene in the film, ya know, the one where Wade burns MJ clothing items..
but wait, then Juliens Auctions comes out and publicly states that Wade has auctioned those items several years prior. Another Provable Fact.

Misleading.

Wade Robson has 100% clarified that the clothing he burned during the end credits of Leaving Neverland was not the one he sold at an auction in 2011. It was a replica of the original from when he was working on Thriller.

Don’t spread misinformation by leaving key details out. It paints an incomplete picture.

Provable Facts- Wade Robson had a nervous breakdown during directing Happy Feet, removed from project.

Incorrect. Wade Robson was never the director of Happy Feet. That project was always to be, and was, written, directed, and produced by Mad Max creator George Miller.

He was hired to choreograph the opening number for the sequel, Happy Feet Two, also directed by George Miller. He was never fired, nor did he have a nervous breakdown, during production.

Here he is making the promotional rounds at press junkets for that film.

The Choreographers: Wade Robson learns to dance like a penguin

'Happy Feet Two's' animated penguins dance to Wade Robson's choreography in the opening number with help from real dancers who were shot by motion capture and advice on how penguins move.

www.latimes.com

He had a nervous breakdown when trying to direct a different film, which he admits he was not prepared to handle.

This provable fact is debunked.

Begs the Michael Jackson Estate to hire him to choreograph their upcoming Cirque show.

Incorrect due to sensationalized verbiage, which you’re clearly just stealing from this article from The Blast.

Writing an impassioned letter to persuade someone to give you a job isn’t begging. Please don’t use clearly misleading sensationalized headlines, and don’t so easily be duped by them either.

He Is passed up for a different choreographer.

Correct.

Has no work prospects

Several months later starts shopping a book about being abused by MJ, book is rejected by publishers.

I never once suggested Wade Robson wasn’t an opportunist.

Then, files a 1.5 billion dollar lawsuit against the Estate, says they are responsible for his new claim of sexual abuse (contradicting decades of glowing praise for Jackson, before and after MJ’s death). Claims that his lawsuit is valid because he didn’t know there was an “estate”, but his own emails contradict this.



How do you reconcile this without seeing any red flags?
I’m asking in earnest.

There’s several more if you would like me to provide additional claims vs provable facts.

A lot of your provable facts are misleading, have inconsistencies of their own, are from dubious resources (websites like liesofleavingneverland.com is not a credible outlet), and in some cases, flat out incorrect.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Is it possible that Wade did indeed look at his young son and feel guilt... but not because of abuse.. because he left his father to find a surrogate in MJ, at the aggressive insistence of his mother... father eventually commits suicide. Now, being a father himself, he realizes the error in his decisions, hopes his son never does the same. Couple that with a career in shambles, and he decides to lie to obtain 1.5 billion dollars, in some sick justification for what he did to his own dad.

Is that not a possibility?

Of course it’s a possibility.

As is Michael Jackson sexually abusing and molesting children.

Would that not be a little more believable based on all of the red flags and conflicting stories that he has told regarding the alleged abuse?

No, because your path requires us to look inside somebody’s head and making assumptions using our internal logic, which is an irrational position to take.

For example, I cannot assume why you choose to represent your persona via your avatar as that of a child molester, and I can’t use my internal logic to explain whatever is going on in your head.

Abuse is the perfect claim. Can’t be proven. The only thing a judge and the public can do is use LOGIC when considering the many discrepancies vs the claims. There is no way that we can use critical thought and simultaneously say that Jackson was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The story from Wade and James is as equally coherent as 2 MAGA guys jumping Jussie Smollett in a hate crime during sub zero temps.

No, it isn’t. And stop using the Smollett case to support your positions and dismiss everyone else’s.

 

[21stamps]

Incomplete information. The train station that you’re repeatedly identifying was indeed built in 1993/1994.

However, Neverland Ranch did open in 1990, so the location does place Safechuck there. The photographs presented in the film were not standard images found online, but from Safechuck, also placing him in Neverland Ranch in 1993/1994.

Additionally, he asserts that Michael Jackson molested him in multiple locations, and well into his teenage years. This does conflict with a testimony he gave stating the abuse stopped in 1992, but given the fact that traumatic events have the effect of memory on victims, something that is widely agreed upon to exist, he could be mixing up a specific building or time.

This is the murkiest detail because there on conflicts by both sides of the argument and at several different instances in time.

It’s not enough to derail an entire traumatic experience, which frankly, is a disgusting tactic you are using to negate something that SEVERAL people have described.



Addressed in a previous post.



Two unrelated points.


Misleading.

Wade Robson has 100% clarified that the clothing he burned during the end credits of Leaving Neverland was not the one he sold at an auction in 2011. It was a replica of the original from when he was working on Thriller.

Don’t spread misinformation by leaving key details out. It paints an incomplete picture.




Incorrect. Wade Robson was never the director of Happy Feet. That project was always to be, and was, written, directed, and produced by Mad Max creator George Miller.

He was hired to choreograph the opening number for the sequel, Happy Feet Two, also directed by George Miller. He was never fired, nor did he have a nervous breakdown, during production.

Here he is making the promotional rounds at press junkets for that film.

The Choreographers: Wade Robson learns to dance like a penguin

'Happy Feet Two's' animated penguins dance to Wade Robson's choreography in the opening number with help from real dancers who were shot by motion capture and advice on how penguins move.

www.latimes.com

If you have paid attention to this story at all, for the past several years, you would realize that neither of these men have claimed “repressed memory”. Fact.
James have a vivid description of being abused in a train station as a pre pubescent boy.. the station was not built until he 16-17, much taller than Michael Jackson, not really in line with narrative, no?
Not once have James said that the abuse went past 14 year old.. and again, he is not claiming repressed memory.
It’s really odd that you’re saying he is.

Wade had a nervous breakdown when trying to direct a different film, which he admits he was not prepared to handle.

This provable fact is debunked.



Incorrect due to sensationalized verbiage, which you’re clearly just stealing from this article from The Blast.

Writing an impassioned letter to persuade someone to give you a job isn’t begging. Please don’t use clearly misleading sensationalized headlines, and don’t so easily be duped by them either.



Correct.



I never once suggested Wade Robson wasn’t an opportunist.



A lot of your provable facts are misleading, have inconsistencies of their own, are from dubious resources (websites like liesofleavingneverland.com is not a credible outlet), and in some cases, flat out incorrect.

You definitely didn’t watch the deposition. It wasn’t for ‘93 or 2005.. it was from 6 months prior to the shooting Leaving Neverland. This is a fact, with video and transcripts as evidence.

You also haven’t read the emails between Wade and the Estate re: Cirque. He admitted that the pressure of directing was too much for him, so he removed himself (his exact words)., then asked, emphatically, to have the chance to direct the Cirque show.
Again, recorded facts. The email was made public. As a side note, there is also video evidence of him claiming to have the job, which he did not.

Here’s an idea- watch the deposition, read the transcripts and then try again, instead of repeatedly giving wrong info.

If you can’t base your comments on the info available, which I’ve made easy to just click and read/watch.. then what’s the point?
An uneducated argument doesn’t make a lot of sense.

 

[21stamps]

If anyone has paid attention to this story at all over the past several years, you would know that “repressed memory” has never been the claim.

Abuse at 16-17 years old when a head taller than Michael Jackson, also not claimed. That’s the age of James when the train station was built.

The claim is PRE PUBESCENT sexual abuse.


Math. It’s not that difficult.

 

[21stamps]

Of course it’s a possibility.

As is Michael Jackson sexually abusing and molesting children.



No, because your path requires us to look inside somebody’s head and making assumptions using our internal logic, which is an irrational position to take.

For example, I cannot assume why you choose to represent your persona via your avatar as that of a child molester, and I can’t use my internal logic to explain whatever is going on in your head.



No, it isn’t. And stop using the Smollett case to support your positions and dismiss everyone else’s.

Here’s the email, again. Try reading it word by word, left to right.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Here’s the email, again. Try reading it word by word, left to right.

View attachment 400070

I read the letter. It reads like someone who really wants the job. “Begging” is sensationalized trash to appeal to people like you who fall for clickbait articles from less reputable news outlets (The Blast, which uses that exact same terminology) that don’t tell the entire story.

 

[Tony Perkis]

You definitely didn’t watch the deposition. It wasn’t for ‘93 or 2005.. it was from 6 months prior to the shooting Leaving Neverland. This is a fact, with video and transcripts as evidence.

You also haven’t read the emails between Wade and the Estate re: Cirque. He admitted that the pressure of directing was too much for him, so he removed himself (his exact words)., then asked, emphatically, to have the chance to direct the Cirque show.
Again, recorded facts. The email was made public. As a side note, there is also video evidence of him claiming to have the job, which he did not.

Here’s an idea- watch the deposition, read the transcripts and then try again, instead of repeatedly giving wrong info.

If you can’t base your comments on the info available, which I’ve made easy to just click and read/watch.. then what’s the point?
An uneducated argument doesn’t make a lot of sense.

You got some clear, easily disprovable facts about his history incorrect. You got the film he got fired wrong; you got his role on that film wrong. Even the minute details you can’t even admit when you’re incorrect, and yes, you are 100% on a few things. Those are, to use your hilariously ironic term, provable facts.

Can you even admit that the jobs/timeline of events that you identify as positions of Robson’s past are incorrect? Or are you going to double down that Robson was fired from Happy Feet?

This isn’t a hugely important detail in the grand scheme of things, but it serves as a good litmus test.

Because if you can’t even admit you were incorrect about this indisputable fact, and even just say you didn’t vet that detail appropriately, why would you deserve the benefit of honest discussion going forward?

 

[Tony Perkis]

If anyone has paid attention to this story at all over the past several years, you would know that “repressed memory” has never been the claim.

Abuse at 16-17 years old when a head taller than Michael Jackson, also not claimed. That’s the age of James when the train station was built.

The claim is PRE PUBESCENT sexual abuse.


Math. It’s not that difficult.

Wade Robson's Nervous Breakdown Led To Memories Of Michael Jackson's Sexual Abuse

Following a nervous breakdown, Wade Robson went to a psychiatrist, sources claim, during which he alleged that Jackson abused him.

www.google.com

Incorrect, again. Vet your information better.

 

[21stamps]

You got some clear, easily disprovable facts about his history incorrect. You got the film he got fired wrong; you got his role on that film wrong. Even the minute details you can’t even admit when you’re incorrect, and yes, you are 100% on a few things. Those are, to use your hilariously ironic term, provable facts.

Can you even admit that the jobs/timeline of events that you identify as positions of Robson’s past are incorrect? Or are you going to double down that Robson was fired from Happy Feet?

This isn’t a hugely important detail in the grand scheme of things, but it serves as a good litmus test.

Because if you can’t even admit you were incorrect about this indisputable fact, and even just say you didn’t vet that detail appropriately, why would you deserve the benefit of honest discussion going forward?

This is what you’re stuck, because I may be wrong on the title of Happy Feet, that it may have been another movie instead.. even though the exact same circumstances apply.

Do you realize how insane that is, to focus on the movie title? It is not pertinent to the story at all.

I’ll rephrase, just so you can get over that- Wade Robson was working on a movie (May or may not have been Happy Feet) and had a complete meltdown to the point where he had to remove himself, then asked, emphatically, for a job choreographing the Cirque show.

Does that change anything?
Or do you now realize how silly the point of the name of the movie is, and how irrelevant it is?

Wade Robson's Nervous Breakdown Led To Memories Of Michael Jackson's Sexual Abuse

Following a nervous breakdown, Wade Robson went to a psychiatrist, sources claim, during which he alleged that Jackson abused him.

www.google.com

Incorrect, again. Vet your information better.

I have linked and posted first hand info. Depositions, emails, photographs of a nonexistent train station, even Wade’s own interviews where he reiterates that ‘this is not a case of repressed memory’...

.. and you respond with an article quoting TMZ and unnamed ‘sources’ saying something completely different than his own words.

What a joke.


I’m not sure of your age...but.. There is no point in discussion with someone who can not distinguish between a legal deposition, and TMZ. It’s like being in outer space.
TMZ was right about Jussie Smollett too!! Now I understand

 

[Tony Perkis]

This is what you’re stuck, because I may be wrong on the title of Happy Feet, that it may have been another movie instead.. even though the exact same circumstances apply.

Do you realize how insane that is, to focus on the movie title? It is not pertinent to the story at all.

I’ll rephrase, just so you can get over that- Wade Robson was working on a movie (May or may not have been Happy Feet) and had a complete meltdown to the point where he had to remove himself, then asked, emphatically, for a job choreographing the Cirque show.

Does that change anything?
Or do you now realize how silly the point of the name of the movie is, and how irrelevant it is?




I have linked and posted first hand info. Depositions, emails, photographs of a nonexistent train station, even Wade’s own interviews where he reiterates that ‘this is not a case of repressed memory’...

.. and you respond with an article quoting TMZ and unnamed ‘sources’ saying something completely different than his own words.

What a joke.


I’m not sure of your age...but.. There is no point in discussion with someone who can not distinguish between a legal deposition, and TMZ. It’s like being in outer space.
TMZ was right about Jussie Smollett too!! Now I understand

I want you to admit you’re wrong on the film he wasn’t fired from. This is an important litmus test, because if you cannot admit that, then you’d be unreliable. You’d be an absolute joke. Don’t just say you are wrong, but humbly admit you are wrong.

I will not address a single point you make until then.