Meg and Co. Head West ...

[wdwmagic]

Ironically, Disneyland's Pirates is in the last month of a three month rehab this fall. This is the second multi-month rehab Disneyland's Pirates has had since the big Johnny Depp one in '06. In that same time since '06, WDW's Pirates has had just one 12-day rehab back in 2008. And now it shows. It's stuff like that where TDO's business model needs to change ASAP, and more visits to Anaheim should help them see the light.

Rightly or wrongly, Disney as a company see WDW and DL very differently. It has been said many times by Disney Imagineers and execs that DLR has a 70% local visitor base, who can tolerate long closures of signature attractions. WDW has the exact opposite, and the wider visitor base expect the signature attractions to be open on their trip. I don't think we'll ever see WDW have the same number of refurbs and overlays as DLR does.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, Meg is still in charge of WDW too, and Disney made it clear there would not be a replacement named for the old spot. Meg's job didn't change much with this news, and it was rumored to be more of a figurehead position and a convenient way to save some embarassment for the company after the previous person who was in that spot needed to leave the company unexpectedly.

Meg still has the exact same role she's had previously with WDW, with no additional executives added to her ranks to take on some of her workload. She just took on a figurehead position for Anaheim and Paris.

In short, Tom Staggs effectively flattened the reporting structure that reports up to him directly. There's fewer people between him and the park properties now.

Just because it was intended to be more of a figurehead does not mean she would be unable to make more out of the position.

 

[unkadug]

how can i ignore/block jt's posts?

Why would you want to do that? You'd miss out on all the fun! :lol::wave:

 

[jt04]

As I said, I can't pretend to have the inside scoop on this one. But I have been around the corporate world for a few decades and know what it takes and what it means to have a giant executive pow-wow at one property, pulling in execs from several different divsions and sites from across the country. That's not exclusive to Disney, and it's easy to see what it takes to make that type of major executive event happen. Staggs had to have put that together.

The Anaheim Cast Members posting on other sites who are leaking what Anaheim management is saying quite smugly about this latest visit by Meg and nearly her entire executive team is also pretty easy to decipher.

Overall, this should be good news for TDO and WDW. But, as Cosmic Commando pointed out, this isn't the first time TDO execs have seen first-hand the growing difference in showmanship between Anaheim and Orlando and then did absolutely nothing about it. See the Pirates of the Caribbean rehab of 2006 as an example.

Ironically, Disneyland's Pirates is in the last month of a three month rehab this fall. This is the second multi-month rehab Disneyland's Pirates has had since the big Johnny Depp one in '06. In that same time since '06, WDW's Pirates has had just one 12-day rehab back in 2008. And now it shows. It's stuff like that where TDO's business model needs to change ASAP, and more visits to Anaheim should help them see the light.

All I know is that a 500 million dollar Carsland-esque expansion was announced for WDW after she got the promotion. I expect more to come. No wonder the DL fan community fears her. :lol:

I just do not believe the internet spin about this entire subject ESPECIALLY because the spin is almost entirely sourced from the DL fan boy community.

If it was discovered that the rides at the WDW Fantasyland contained traces of lead paint you can bet we would be hearing how bad TDO is and how heads should roll. But when it is Disneyland that has this problem we hear nothing from those same people.

The hypocrisy is sickening at times. :hurl:

 

[jt04]

Why would you want to do that? You'd miss out on all the fun! :lol::wave:

Ain't that the truth.

 

[wdwfan22]

Rightly or wrongly, Disney as a company see WDW and DL very differently. It has been said many times by Disney Imagineers and execs that DLR has a 70% local visitor base, who can tolerate long closures of signature attractions. WDW has the exact opposite, and the wider visitor base expect the signature attractions to be open on their trip. I don't think we'll ever see WDW have the same number of refurbs and overlays as DLR does.

very well said!! So many forget this, Disneyland is a local based park/resort. Orlando is different, and most Guests expect everything to be open when they visit. They don't care nor want to hear it's down for refurbishment. This will never change with the Orlando resort, unless it becomes just a locals based attraction.

 

[marni1971]

Ironically, Disneyland's Pirates is in the last month of a three month rehab this fall. This is the second multi-month rehab Disneyland's Pirates has had since the big Johnny Depp one in '06. In that same time since '06, WDW's Pirates has had just one 12-day rehab back in 2008. And now it shows. It's stuff like that where TDO's business model needs to change ASAP, and more visits to Anaheim should help them see the light.

In all fairness, this refurb is pre preventative work and also needed repairs on the flume system. Guests probably won't know any different after reopening.

But you know I'm not defending TDO.

 

[asianway]

very well said!! So many forget this, Disneyland is a local based park/resort. Orlando is different, and most Guests expect everything to be open when they visit. They don't care nor want to hear it's down for refurbishment. This will never change with the Orlando resort, unless it becomes just a locals based attraction.

300,000 DVC members who are locked in for 50 years seems to run counter to the whole "you ruined my once in a lifetime trip because Pirates was down" nonsense. And if these truly are the once in a lifetime visitors they are pandering to, who cares? They aren't coming back anyway...

Where's the stats and internal TDO policies on this, I'd love to see it.

 

[Lee]

Rightly or wrongly, Disney as a company see WDW and DL very differently. It has been said many times by Disney Imagineers and execs that DLR has a 70% local visitor base, who can tolerate long closures of signature attractions. WDW has the exact opposite, and the wider visitor base expect the signature attractions to be open on their trip. I don't think we'll ever see WDW have the same number of refurbs and overlays as DLR does.

This is true, and quite to WDW's detriment.

Overlays...no big deal.
Refurbs...a necessary part of running a park. They don't need to be as often, but make them count when you do them. Better maintenance would help.

As for rides bring closed during someone's trip...I have no sympathy at all. That's just life. A little research goes a long way, and if missing one ride is a huge deal...rethink your priorities.

Just my opinion...

 

[wdwfan22]

This is true, and quite to WDW's detriment.

Overlays...no big deal.
Refurbs...a necessary part of running a park. They don't need to be as often, but make them count when you do them. Better maintenance would help.

As for rides bring closed during someone's trip...I have no sympathy at all. That's just life. A little research goes a long way, and if missing one ride is a huge deal...rethink your priorities.

Just my opinion...

Guests shouldn't have to do research to visit Disney. Now i'm not saying rides shouldn't go down for work, but I have been to Disneyland before where 6 attractions have all been down at the same time. I'm sorry but that is way to many. Rehabs should be done and announced ahead of schedule, and maybe even sent out with the Resort Confirmation e-mails that way there are no surprises.

 

[PalisadesPkteer]

This is true, and quite to WDW's detriment.

Overlays...no big deal.
Refurbs...a necessary part of running a park. They don't need to be as often, but make them count when you do them. Better maintenance would help.

As for rides bring closed during someone's trip...I have no sympathy at all. That's just life. A little research goes a long way, and if missing one ride is a huge deal...rethink your priorities.

Just my opinion...

So very True Lee. If I see that there is a refurb on something I really want to do or see then I go before or after. If I can't then I see or do it on the next trip. I would rather they do refurbs / rehabs to keep everything in working order than do little and have "poor" show like what happens a lot lately.


People have a lot of information they can find on these and other subjects on the internet nowadays. These boards are an example. That is 1 of the reasons I love this site.

 

[unkadug]

Guests shouldn't have to do research to visit Disney. Now i'm not saying rides shouldn't go down for work, but I have been to Disneyland before where 6 attractions have all been down at the same time. I'm sorry but that is way to many. Rehabs should be done and announced ahead of schedule, and maybe even sent out with the Resort Confirmation e-mails that way there are no surprises.

But isn't receiving notification AFTER making all your of plans a little too late? You have already arranged to have off at work, etc.

If it's really THAT important that all attractions be open then you SHOULD do your research....there is really no excuse.

 

[TP2000]

If it was discovered that the rides at the WDW Fantasyland contained traces of lead paint you can bet we would be hearing how bad TDO is and how heads should roll. But when it is Disneyland that has this problem we hear nothing from those same people.

It's not the paint that has traces of lead at Disneyland, it's the queue switchback stanchions, some stained glass windows, and the brass fixtures on the Carousel and Mark Twain Riverboat. All of those same things exist at WDW parks, but in California you get a lot more enviro-legal wackos who can breed in the more liberal political landscape here compared to the more conservative and pro-business landscape in Florida.

The brass poles on the Carousel that have traces of lead in them also exist at WDW. Luckily, WDW isn't in their crosshairs on this one.

 

[TP2000]

Rightly or wrongly, Disney as a company see WDW and DL very differently. It has been said many times by Disney Imagineers and execs that DLR has a 70% local visitor base, who can tolerate long closures of signature attractions. WDW has the exact opposite, and the wider visitor base expect the signature attractions to be open on their trip. I don't think we'll ever see WDW have the same number of refurbs and overlays as DLR does.

Now see, I keep hearing figures like "70%" locals at Disneyland from pretty much everyone but someone who actually works for Disney. It's a topic that interests me, and in all my research on it I just can't find anyone going on record about the demographics skewing that high towards the SoCal locals living betweeen Santa Barbara and San Diego.

If you know of a web link to a quote from a Disney leader who recently stated such a thing, I would be forever thankful. Otherwise, I'll just have to fall back on my previous hunch that is quite different than 70% locals...

In my very amateur opinion after spending years at the Anaheim parks regularly and chatting with lots of folks in the queues and such, I would guess that no more than 50% of the people at Disneyland live within 150 miles of the place. At least 30% are Americans from states beyond California, 5% are from Canada, and 15% are from Europe or other Pacific Rim countries (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Southeast Asia, etc.).

The demographic differences between WDW and DLR are a fascinating way to excuse declining showmanship quality, though. Using that as an excuse, it would seem that WDW would never be able to close anything for a rehab ever. How did WDW survive that one summer when Haunted Mansion was closed for 3 months? Or the big Space Mountain closure? Somehow, they did, and the place is better for it. It would be nice if they kept that up, but it only seems to come in tiny bursts every few years at WDW. A very odd way to do business. :veryconfu

 

[TP2000]

Rehabs should be done and announced ahead of schedule, and maybe even sent out with the Resort Confirmation e-mails that way there are no surprises.

The Internet is a wonderful thing, and Disneyland.com clearly lists all rehabs at each park on the daily calendar page. It's right below the operating hours, parade times, fireworks time, etc. And it's listed each day in a daily, weekly or monthly format with rehabs clearly listed several months in advance.

For instance, anyone going to Disneyland.com to check the operating hours for a day later this week would also see that Pirates, the Blue Bayou, and It's A Small World are currently closed for rehab, and that Space Mountain closes on Tuesday. http://disneyland.disney.go.com/calendar/#/default/2011/10/29

I have to believe that the Disney World website does the same thing, but since attraction rehabs in the parks are so rare in WDW, this information simply doesn't show up on the calendar there because it's just something that is not happening. A check on Disneyworld.com shows me that between all four WDW theme parks this upcoming week, there is not a single rehab scheduled once the Treehouse reopens on Monday. Whereas at Disneyland's two theme parks this upcoming week, there are four attractions closed for rehab; Pirates and Small World rehabs continuing at Disneyland 'til mid November, a two day removal of Ghost Galaxy from Space Mountain, and It's Tough To Be A Bug rehab continuing at DCA 'til mid November.

The rehab information is there up to several months in advance on the official websites, but if no rehab is happening anywhere on WDW property like this upcoming week, nothing would show up.

Apparently the first two weeks in November are such a peak vacation period for WDW that not a single rehab in any theme park can risk being scheduled now. Who knew?!

 

[WDWFigment]

Guests shouldn't have to do research to visit Disney. Now i'm not saying rides shouldn't go down for work, but I have been to Disneyland before where 6 attractions have all been down at the same time. I'm sorry but that is way to many. Rehabs should be done and announced ahead of schedule, and maybe even sent out with the Resort Confirmation e-mails that way there are no surprises.

Do you do research before purchasing a new computer? Before buying a new television? Why should a vacation, which likely could be more expensive than both of these products, be any different?

I think it's ridiculous to *not* do research before spending any large sum of money, especially when going on vacation.

A few years ago, we went on a trip to Hawaii. Before hand, we researched the best beaches, hole-in-the-wall places to eat, and places to go scuba diving. We found a largely empty and pristine beach, found local restaurants in out-of-the-way places that were fabulous, and went diving away from the main beach and ended up seeing turtles that were bigger than us. We later talked to someone else who had also been to Hawaii, and lamented that it was just one big tourist trap. Yeah, maybe if you let yourself be trapped.

The point is, performing one's due diligence is, in large part, what separates the winners from the losers. If people want to be lazy and "lose" at Walt Disney World, or anywhere else, I have absolutely no sympathy for them. Chances are that is their real world MO, too, and they "suffer" similar results.

Now see, I keep hearing figures like "70%" locals at Disneyland from pretty much everyone but someone who actually works for Disney. It's a topic that interests me, and in all my research on it I just can't find anyone going on record about the demographics skewing that high towards the SoCal locals living betweeen Santa Barbara and San Diego.

If you know of a web link to a quote from a Disney leader who recently stated such a thing, I would be forever thankful. Otherwise, I'll just have to fall back on my previous hunch that is quite different than 70% locals...

In my very amateur opinion after spending years at the Anaheim parks regularly and chatting with lots of folks in the queues and such, I would guess that no more than 50% of the people at Disneyland live within 150 miles of the place. About 30% are from states beyond California, 5% are from Canada, and 15% are from Europe or other Pacific Rim countries (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Southeast Asia, etc.).

The demographic differences between WDW and DLR are a fascinating way to excuse declining showmanship quality, though. Using that as an excuse, it would seem that WDW would never be able to close anything for a rehab ever. How did WDW survive that one summer when Haunted Mansion was closed for 3 months? Or the big Space Mountain closure? Somehow, they did, and the place is better for it. It would be nice if they kept that up, but it only seems to come in tiny bursts every few years at WDW. A very odd way to do business. :veryconfu

I, too, am skeptical of this 70/30, 30/70 split at DLR and WDW, but that is what Jason Surrell said it was at a recent presentation. So, I guess, there's your confirmation. He is definitely not one to toe the company line, so I think it's at least close to accurate.

With the increase in DVC members and Chicago/New York AP holders at Walt Disney World, and DLR's attempts at decreasing the AP population at DLR, plus DCA's (basically) grand reopening next year that is bound to draw more tourists, I think the gap could close substantially in the coming years.

Regardless, I see the guest demographic at Walt Disney World as a convenient excuse, rather than a real reason for not doing maintenance and overlays. Once in a lifetime guests may be disappointed that the "Haunted House" isn't open, but would it really make or break their trip? Chances are they aren't likely to get as up in arms as some of the once-a-year visitors here. Because, if they really did care that much, they wouldn't just visit once in a lifetime.

 

[TP2000]

In all fairness, this refurb is pre preventative work and also needed repairs on the flume system. Guests probably won't know any different after reopening.

But you know I'm not defending TDO.

I know you're not defending them, and I get what you are saying. :wave:

And I'm sure there are very un-glamorous yet neccesary reasons for this latest 3 month Pirates rehab at Disneyland. But I have to believe that while they are in there replacing flume stuff and doing preventative maintenance they'll also be in that massive ride repainting, redecorating, and tuning up all those animatronics and special effects. A few months down the road when all the animatronics still move fluidly and every cannon splash and bullet ricochet is still working, the customers will know the difference. Perhaps subconsiously, but they'll know the difference that the ride is in fantastic shape after 45 years of operation.

Can you believe Disneyland's Pirates is about to celebrate its 45th Anniversary?! March, 1967 - March, 2012 and 45 years of Yo Ho!

Disneyland never seems to let any rehab go to waste. Just look at the massive facade refurbishment they are giving the building while they are inside working on the flume.

Pirates Building and Entrance Under Refurbishment, New Orleans Square - October, 2011

http://datelinedisneyland.smugmug.com/DisneylandResort/2011/2011-10-21/i-PVzxbgR/0/M/IMG3483-M.jpg

Obviously this is more than just flume repair. Outside and inside. :animwink:

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
But I do find it interesting that Al assumes that Meg isn't out there to attempt further ONE DISNEY homogenization/Walmarting of the Anaheim property or simply to show her dominance over George K and his TDA team. Of course, since one of Al's top sources happens to be ... 'close' to George, one wonders who is spinning whom.

Is that why the tone and info from Al Lutz has been so upbeat and exciting in the last few years? Certainly there's lots to be upbeat about around Anaheim in the last few years, and at least in my lifetime the place has never looked better cosmetically and operationally than it does now, but is that why Lutz has had almost nothing but good news for the last few years?

He is being fed by someone very close to George K with the man's blessing. I dare you to find one negative word Al has uttered about George since he took over. He continues to give George credit for all the wonderful changes that are happening at DLR ... only problem is 99% of them were pushed through/budgeted/approved under 'Inivisible Ed' Grier's tenure leading TDA when George was living in Paris.

That's not to say George isn't doing a good job or isn't a competent exec. I think he largely is the former and he absolutely is Disney's best stateside Ops guy bar none.

But Al also is being played by George, who was part of a group who were villified by him when George was Sr. VP of Ops under Cynthia from June 2000- February 2002. George became quite 'net savvy and he understands how important 'looks' are to the fan community. Just being spotted in the park matters to many, posing for a picture and talking about Walt is enough to leave many fanbois in pools of drool. George isn't going to make the same mistakes that were made his first go-around in Anaheim.

As for the ONE DISNEY stuff, isn't it possible that Crofton & Co. were sent out to Anaheim by Staggs to learn a few things? Over on Disneyland sites, respected CM's are stating that management has told them that Crofton & Co. was sent out to SoCal this week by Staggs who wants her team to learn theme park tips n' tricks from the Disneylanders.

Possible? Sure.

I don't know what the deal is, which is what I stated before an unstable member of this site decided to attempt to derail the topic.

Staggs could have sent her out to Anaheim with a 'learn how to do it right' order.

BUT ... it's also possible she's out there to assert her dominance over George/TDA and is there to figure more ways to simplify Disney's business by homogenizing more under ONE DISNEY.

Now, if that were the case, do you think George and TDA spinners would admit that online?

Not saying it is. But it certainly is possible, if not probable. Meg is in charge of DLR now ... as well as DLP ... and WDW. Knowing the way Disney (and most large corps) operate is it more likely she is learning the right way to do things from her underlings or is it more likely she is showing who is boss and making some changes just for the sake of it to look good to her superiors?

If both WDI and TDA got together and staged a big multi-day series of presentations for Crofton and her WDW group on Disneyland's operation and DCA's 2012 plans, that tells me that someone in Burbank who oversees all three of those various divisions (WDI, DLR, WDW) was behind this and orchestrated the agenda and set it purposely in Anaheim.

Well, DCA is being reintroduced/rebranded to the public in 2012 while WDW is opening a double Dumbo spinner and building some timeshares. It would stand to reason that the boss would travel to Anaheim. She needs to see what's going on there. There's nothing at all but common sense that should be read into the locale.

I don't know that for a fact, I only know it from decades working in corporate life for various companies. When three different company divisions from opposite ends of the country are put together in one room at one specific property for a multi-day conference, it had to have come from an order above. In this case, the order would have come from Staggs in Burbank, and the fact that Anaheim played host would strongly support the theory that Crofton & Co. was sent there to learn and not to teach. :lookaroun

I am not sure any order came at all. If Meg is even semi-competent in her job, she should have been able to put this together. Maybe Tom did ... maybe he was just made aware of it. But I don't see it as a 'his fingerprints have to be all over this' deal at all.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttalovebug
Does JT's apparent obsession with '74 make anyone else uncomfortable?

Only when others quote him. If everyone just put him on ignore, the world would be a better place.

I have never put anyone on 'ignore' and won't start now. We should all be adults or mature teens and capable of reading AND IGNORING anyone's opinions provided they aren't personal attacks.

I am (and try) to not respond to the individual in question, but he lives to mention me (even when I may go months without dropping a post here). He focuses on me personally and not my posts/points.

You'd think that 'might' be a concern to the mods here, but apparently its more important to worry about whether fanboi or fanboy or fanatic or fancreature or DisneyDustAddict or ... are somehow pejorative terms. I REALLY just want to talk about issues here. I think 98% of the people here (no matter the issue and whether they agree with my POV) agree. When someone consistently has an agenda to derail legit discussion/debate and make things personal, I think he/she/it needs to be kept on a tighter leash or given a time out.

~GFC~

 

[TP2000]

I am not sure any order came at all. If Meg is even semi-competent in her job, she should have been able to put this together. Maybe Tom did ... maybe he was just made aware of it. But I don't see it as a 'his fingerprints have to be all over this' deal at all.

Valid point. And we'll likely never know the real story of this weeks conference, if there even is a story beyond Crofton & Co. just going out to Anaheim to get out of the rain for a bit and dry off and see what all that money was spent on for 2012.

But something just doesn't square right with me when people automatically assume that Crofton was here for two days to start dragging Disneyland down to her lower standards. If that were to happen, it would seem that Kalogridis and his team would be summoned to TDO to get schooled in the WDW way of business, instead of going out to Anaheim.

The poor dear, we over-analyze her every move to death. She probably just has to visit Anaheim a couple times per year to satisfy her job description and earn some frequent flier miles. :lol: