cjk0318
Well-Known Member
I'd LOVE to see your substantial evidence- you have that, right?
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Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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- magic kingdom
jlthomas81
Well-Known Member
Is that to actually be the front turret?
Jon81uk
Well-Known Member
Where can you get access from backstage to the North-West of the hub? Even if they closed the whole hub it cannot be accessed during opening hours and keep guest flow round the hub?
For Fantasyland of course they did close off the whole of the back of the park as this can be accessed without impacting guest flow.
Bing Bong
Well-Known Member
JediMasterMatt
Well-Known Member
It could be done in the exact same way construction is done every place else on Disney properties around the world: put up construction walls, bring in equipment at night and place it behind the walls and have the crew enter and exit out via doors in the walls at any point day or night. Contrary to what is exhibited at WDW today, they use to work in shifts.
If you want recent examples of how to build in the middle of a theme park, drive down I-4. Plenty of them there. The closest recent comparison to the Hub in terms of location would be Transformers. They built an entire E-ticket in the middle of the park. Construction started in June and the ride was opened in May the following year.
Of course a multi-story (or storey for Martin's sake) E-ticket with 3-D 4K screens and multi-direction ride vehicles is nowhere near as complex as filling in some moats, leveling the land, pouring concrete, and then installing artificial grass and light poles. Thankfully, Universal didn't add any complex audio-animatronics to the attraction or it might have slowed them down by a week or two.
70's, 80's, and into the 90's Disney would've walled up the Hub and gotten the work done. Of course back then, there was plenty of "fresh and new" at the other parks on property and they wouldn't be deathly afraid of guests not spending time at the MK.
The difference is now they are deathly afraid of that prospect.
The difference is they don't have confidence in their own product as alternatives to the MK. So much so, that the Hub's offerings can't go offline... just like Pirates can't stay offline long... just like Space couldn't either. Wake me up when the Hall of Presidents is too big to fail.
gmajew
Premium Member
Ok so if you board up the hub how do you move people through? You would have needed to limit all access to the lands. And funnel 70k people single file through the temp walk ways. Yeah not going to happen.
Why not just close the park for 6 months and fix everything. Lol
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
unless the animatronics were build and tested in another construction facility.
so they only had to be mounted and re tested.
JediMasterMatt
Well-Known Member
Closing down the Hub... why that would require months of prep work on the east and west side paths to allow for more efficient access to Adventureland and Tomorrowland... which is exactly what happened before the start of the Hub refurb.
They didn't need to close down the paths at the Hub or through it... they just needed to be willing to stop giving people reasons to congregate there in the form of parades, fireworks and Castle shows. The argument is that it was because of this disruption to essential MK entertainment, they couldn't work during "show" hours. The main reasons for the slow progress is simply financial; but, let's play along with the "what if" concept of: Closing the Hub (including its paths) and rerouting traffic.
One could argue that the Hub is such an essential artery that you really couldn't bypass it effectively - much like Main Street USA (we will ignore the bypass being built there... btw, how's that project coming along?).
Well, if the main artery blockage is the salient discussion point... let's use history as our guide to what is possible.
Remember when DCA needed its make over?
One of it's cornerstones of its make over was Buena Vista Street. You know what they did when it was time to route ALL traffic in and out of DCA and they needed to close the actual street? They rerouted ALL traffic via a bypass behind Soarin' over California.
You know how long they were willing to live with this "pain" and the temporary bypass? 8 months. Far less than our current Hub refurb; but, it allowed their project to be done quicker.
Buena Vista Street's remodel was significantly more complex than the Hub.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
There is no will to do anything as quickly as possible. If there was, they would fund it. Had the project at MK gotten the funding to give it the will, they would've been able to get it done during the "off season" in Orlando and stopped the Castle shows and parades. They could've kept doing fireworks.
Disneyland currently is showing the lesser Fantasy in the Sky because they can't use the launch points for Remember as they are prepping for Disneyland Forever.
Again... there is a way if they were willing.
If you are willing enough to accept the time it takes for WDW to do something as trivial as the Hub refurb, then you will be willing to settle for a resort that won't address and fix the issues that are at the heart of its problems. We can't continue to rely on a view of Cinderella Castle as the Golden Goose that brings guests to the resort. If we do, we will be revisiting the Hub refurb again and again. More and more space will need to be created to cram people into look at it.
Get ready for the day of FP+ reservations to take a gander at the Castle.
Your return time to take a look is from 3:10 - 3:15 PM. That is if you were lucky enough to reserve a spot 60 days out.
Yeah, if Universal had to install and configure any AAs on site, it would've slowed them down a week or two. Of course, during that extra week or so, MK could've gotten another few trees removed and a couple light fixtures up.
I wonder what Universal would've done differently with the Hub refurb's Castle turret/lighting towers?
They surely wouldn't have had them prebuilt at Nassal and just shipped them over and assembled them. That's crazy talk.
LL2WDW
Well-Known Member
It's a nice argument, but you simply cannot compare DCA (pre-reboot) traffic, with MK traffic. What worked for the amount of people at DCA, would create even more chaos at MK.
And would you want to work guest relations (or anywhere for that matter), if the MK had suspended all parades and shows due to construction? I don't know...it just seems like far too much interruption for me. If it were the old days, and September was still a dead month, maybe it would work. But not today.
I'd argue the better way would have been to reduce operating hours during several multi-week spans, say, 9am - 8pm or 9pm. No late nights, very few early mornings. Allow the crews to actually get in and work, more than the 4-5 hour increments they must have had for much of the busy year.
Overall though, as someone who visits the MK on a rather regular basis, the construction has been a non-issue for me.
And would you want to work guest relations (or anywhere for that matter), if the MK had suspended all parades and shows due to construction? I don't know...it just seems like far too much interruption for me. If it were the old days, and September was still a dead month, maybe it would work. But not today.
I'd argue the better way would have been to reduce operating hours during several multi-week spans, say, 9am - 8pm or 9pm. No late nights, very few early mornings. Allow the crews to actually get in and work, more than the 4-5 hour increments they must have had for much of the busy year.
Overall though, as someone who visits the MK on a rather regular basis, the construction has been a non-issue for me.
jdmdisney99
Well-Known Member
"Nothing is natural."Natural beauty of the park? Exactly which trees were present in this area before Walt purchased the land...?
It's the land of make-believe. Nothing is natural. It's all a show. You need to let it go...
The park flows together and grows together with nature, unified in a cyclic bond.
Everything is natural.
Just have to say that that particular perspective is irrelevant to the situation. DL has many more large trees. That's a fact. It provides that barrier between lands and "up Main Street". The second picture provided requires no barrier. Why conceal the castle in the castle forecourt?
Keep in mind I am open to sitting and waiting. Could they simply be letting these new trees mature? We don't know. But I am hoping so, and I'm willing to wait and find out.
gmajew
Premium Member
Closing down the Hub... why that would require months of prep work on the east and west side paths to allow for more efficient access to Adventureland and Tomorrowland... which is exactly what happened before the start of the Hub refurb.
They didn't need to close down the paths at the Hub or through it... they just needed to be willing to stop giving people reasons to congregate there in the form of parades, fireworks and Castle shows. The argument is that it was because of this disruption to essential MK entertainment, they couldn't work during "show" hours. The main reasons for the slow progress is simply financial; but, let's play along with the "what if" concept of: Closing the Hub (including its paths) and rerouting traffic.
One could argue that the Hub is such an essential artery that you really couldn't bypass it effectively - much like Main Street USA (we will ignore the bypass being built there... btw, how's that project coming along?).
Well, if the main artery blockage is the salient discussion point... let's use history as our guide to what is possible.
Remember when DCA needed its make over?
One of it's cornerstones of its make over was Buena Vista Street. You know what they did when it was time to route ALL traffic in and out of DCA and they needed to close the actual street? They rerouted ALL traffic via a bypass behind Soarin' over California.
You know how long they were willing to live with this "pain" and the temporary bypass? 8 months. Far less than our current Hub refurb; but, it allowed their project to be done quicker.
Buena Vista Street's remodel was significantly more complex than the Hub.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
There is no will to do anything as quickly as possible. If there was, they would fund it. Had the project at MK gotten the funding to give it the will, they would've been able to get it done during the "off season" in Orlando and stopped the Castle shows and parades. They could've kept doing fireworks.
Disneyland currently is showing the lesser Fantasy in the Sky because they can't use the launch points for Remember as they are prepping for Disneyland Forever.
Again... there is a way if they were willing.
If you are willing enough to accept the time it takes for WDW to do something as trivial as the Hub refurb, then you will be willing to settle for a resort that won't address and fix the issues that are at the heart of its problems. We can't continue to rely on a view of Cinderella Castle as the Golden Goose that brings guests to the resort. If we do, we will be revisiting the Hub refurb again and again. More and more space will need to be created to cram people into look at it.
Get ready for the day of FP+ reservations to take a gander at the Castle.
Your return time to take a look is from 3:10 - 3:15 PM. That is if you were lucky enough to reserve a spot 60 days out.
Yeah, if Universal had to install and configure any AAs on site, it would've slowed them down a week or two. Of course, during that extra week or so, MK could've gotten another few trees removed and a couple light fixtures up.
I wonder what Universal would've done differently with the Hub refurb's Castle turret/lighting towers?
They surely wouldn't have had them prebuilt at Nassal and just shipped them over and assembled them. That's crazy talk.
All good points but you are comparing a park that was in horrible shape and dispear and needed a complete remake to the number one park in the world.
I would expect this kind of make over at Hollywood studios. As a business owner never at MK.
Just not possible.
Goofywilliam
Well-Known Member
Its been confirmed time and time again. A new nighttime show is coming in the not to distant future
Edit: But its also important to remember that this is Disney and plans can change on the fly...
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Its been confirmed time and time again. A new nighttime show is coming in the not to distant future
Edit: But its also important to remember that this is Disney and plans can change on the fly...
We've heard that for years.
Including having projections on water screens until they realized that any wind would soak the crowd.
Jose
Well-Known Member
Yes, but this time is true.
FerretAfros
Well-Known Member
Seems like guests getting soaked by water screens in front of the castle would be much more of a concern in a park that gets real winters with snow, no?
(That said, I don't expect a new nighttime show for MK any time soon)
Edit: I've seen Dreams at DLP a couple times and the crowd does occasionally get misted, but they don't get "soaked"; World of Color at DCA is a lot worse, due to the volume of water and how high it's shot in the air
JediMasterMatt
Well-Known Member
Disneyland runs Fantasmic!, fireworks, and parades on much smaller pathways than MK and they find a way to make it work on a weekly basis. Is it ideal... no; but, they can move people through the park. There is no reason to think MK couldn't do the exact same thing.
MK has had no parades for extended periods of time and the World didn't grind to a halt. The last time this took place was when they needed to replace the Liberty Square bridge. No parades or Castle entertainment should never be an excuse for doing what is necessary. Too much interruption should never be an excuse. The old Disney Parks I grew up with would've found a way to make it work. The new Disney Parks seems to find a way to make it work around the globe with the exception of Orlando.
I'm no Imagineer; but, if they only could've found a way to pull people temporarily away from the Hub with a compelling reason to not feel short changed on missing the 10,000th showing of Dream Along with Mickey and the MSEP. Maybe if they would've done something to draw people towards the back of the park where their proud new expansion is... maybe they could've temporarily used all that stroller parking space in Fantasyland and maybe use the northern fireworks launch point... and maybe have done something Magical... maybe like have a Dragon fly though the sky... them maybe wouldn't feel like they were missing anything while they temporarily get work done.
Nah... that would be impossible. That could only happen during a 1 time media invitation only event.
Disney Parks around the world are willing to bite the bullet and "reduce" services to get work accomplished. Why not in Orlando?
Regarding the comment about poor Guest Services and the rest of the Cast Members during these times, have you had any meaningful conversations with Cast Members in Orlando these days? I can guarantee you that what they are currently going through with MM+ is far beyond anything widely advertising not having a parade for a short period of time would do.
You are correct that reducing the operational hours at MK would've certainly helped... but, that would mean having confidence in the rest of the resort to keep the crowds.
MK should be the land of the impossible... not the possible.
What made the place so special in our hearts will continue to erode away if we continue to accept the current way the resort is being managed.
A couple of acres of land needed reworked and it's taken a year and half to get to this point. Now we are watching turrets get built piece by piece overnight a few hours at a time instead of having the prefabricated offsite and brought in. This is the same company that took an orange grove in California and built an entire legacy in one year.
Pay more, keep expecting less and less.
note2001
Well-Known Member
That's interesting, you can see the line between wet/dry on the bridge.Seems like guests getting soaked by water screens in front of the castle would be much more of a concern in a park that gets real winters with snow, no?
(That said, I don't expect a new nighttime show for MK any time soon)
Edit: I've seen Dreams at DLP a couple times and the crowd does occasionally get misted, but they don't get "soaked"; World of Color at DCA is a lot worse, due to the volume of water and how high it's shot in the air
Aside from a rainforest or a deep sea diving trip, I can't think of a wetter place than Florida to visit. 'You will get Wet" is written into the contract when making plans to go.
Do I want to get wet on the winter days the temperature drops to 40? No thanks, However good design would account for alternate show plans if they don't want to run the sprays for such a reason. This element could still be added to the Magic Kingdom.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Bwahahahahahaha.
When I get a text on my phone from a friend saying that a new nighttime show is 100% happening? Then I'll believe it.
PREMiERdrum
Well-Known Member
... and maybe have done something Magical... maybe like have a Dragon fly though the sky...
It's still an incredible shame that this only happened *once*. I was fortunate enough to be there, and it was something that just made everybody stop dead in their tracks and look up. The piped in audio (dragons roar, wings flapping) masked the sound of the fan perfectly.
It was one of those "holy smokes, goosebumps, did that just happen?" type Disney moments that seem to be far too scarce these days.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
What's sad is this type of moment USED to be regular occurrence at WDW, You never knew WHAT it would be just that it would amaze you.