Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

[inDiG3nCe]

Here is where they are draining the moat

 

[kap91]

I hardly call expanding the sidewalk and removing water features the only solution to the overcrowding of MK.

First off this talk of removing water features: people are acting as if they're filling in the whole moat. If the plans are anywhere close to being accurate this couldn't be further from the truth. A very small portion will be filled in - and likely look as if the moat continues underneath. Plus two new fountains are being added. Compare it to any other Kingdom besides Shanghai and you still have 98% percent more moat.

Second, I didn't say it was the only solution. Absolutely more rides could help - particularly smaller ones as you stated. But what they're doing now is still necessary or would be. The only question is when the problem would be addressed. I think now is better than 10 years from now. Address flow and operations first, then worry about adding new attractions. It makes no sense to add many new attractions when you can barely handle the guests you have now. And while you're right that attendance can't shoot up forever, I wouldn't count on it stagnating soon.

Bottom line is there is very little downside to this project (and all the other related ones) and quite a big upside.

 

[kap91]

could it be possible they are doing this looking at long term and seeing another MK expansion down the road? Of course, this better come after some steroids are pumped into the other 3 parks

Yes and its probable. You don't spend billions of dollars on infrastructure without plans to utilize it to its fullest. The question would be how long term.

 

[aladdin2007]

could it be possible they are doing this looking at long term and seeing another MK expansion down the road? Of course, this better come after some steroids are pumped into the other 3 parks

Possibly doing this now also for the Wishes replacement in a couple years, if thats still a go.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Another idea: What about operating the Walt Disney World Railroad in a shuttle mode between Frontierland and Storybook Circus before and after the fireworks? This would provide an option to cross the park without having to go through the crowded Hub.

 

[ABQ]

Quick question for all those that know how to read those plans that were overlaid a number of pages back, as I'm no landscape architect or engineer of any kind. Is it an absolute known that the winding path through the rose garden area to the old swan boat landing closest to Stitch and Monsters, Inc is going away or is it just assumed? I don't see how its presence interfered with the planned new ring around the hub, or is its removal just being done to sort of compensate for the removal of other greenspace? I only ask as it appears from my unknowing blue print reading ability that the swan boat dock is still present on the plans. Would it just be kept for special events and accessed walking over the grass? Which I'm sure is done for VIPs all the time.

 

[dstrawn9889]

View attachment 46903 Here is how far the moat has drained as of 2/25 @ 12:26pm

drained, or pumped? i would expect that it would have to be pumped out into another holding area, or RoA?

 

[marni1971]

Does it though?

It does. IMHO.

Our past 4-5 trips, seeing Wishes a half dozen times each, and it's been bedlam. In September to October. God knows what its like late July. Crowd control was almost collapsing. On WDWs 40th (fair enough a special day) it was dangerous. The only part of the hub not being walked on by mobs of people was the water itself. PAC and frontline CMs were withdrawn. They just couldn't cope in the limited space.

Not to mention trying to move around pre fireworks, exit the park, or move during a parade.

I agree with your other points though for what its worth. All very valid and very true.

Shock horror. I'm not all doom and gloom! Although it has to be a) top quality and b) fast tracked. Let's see.

 

[Ignohippo]

Does it though?

This project is part of the larger project to drastically increase the MK's capacity, at least to ease its overcrowding issues. There is no sense in increasing one capacity bottleneck without the others, that would merely mean replacing overcrowding.

The investments are enormous. NFL - which is not meant to add new rides, but to increase capacity. Paved over hub. Widened walkways. Bathrooms. Removal of trees. MS alley passageway. Bus station expansion. Ferry expansion. And a fair deal of NGE investments too.

With a sum like this one goes a long way into opening another theme park altogether. With a budget of $1 to $2 billion and tasked with the object to reduce the strain on the MK, is this the best they can come up with? What if instead $500 million went to DHS (SW Land + fireworks), $500 million to DAK (well, as they did: a new land + nightime offerings), and several hundred million to EPCOT and World of Color in Downtown Disney?

Maybe that would've spread the WDW crowds out so much that the MK would not have had to sacrifice show for efficiency, while the other parks suffer and continue to put great stress on the MK. Instead all parks would've been the better for it.

Perfectly said. I was thinking the exact same thing when reading through this thread.

I'm actually wondering of these things weren't forced on them by a Fire Marshal or some other government official. That's a huge expense for no quantifiable gain. And I completely agree with your point - create more compelling things elsewhere and you'll alleviate the congestion at MK.

Besides that, the thing that's perplexing me, if you look at the rendering of the revised hub posted here on wdwmagic, there aren't really any added areas for fireworks viewing. All of the added walkways look like they will be made for walkthrough traffic and standing will be discouraged.

If that's the case, wouldn't it have made sense to pave some small areas (in a way to minimize greenspace loss) for more parade and fireworks viewing as well?

It seems like they're treating the symptoms and not the disease.

 

[kap91]

It does. IMHO.

Our past 4-5 trips, seeing Wishes a half dozen times each, and it's been bedlam. In September to October. God knows what its like late July. Crowd control was almost collapsing. On WDWs 40th (fair enough a special day) it was dangerous. The only part of the hub not being walked on by mobs of people was the water itself. PAC and frontline CMs were withdrawn. They just couldn't cope in the limited space.

Not to mention trying to move around pre fireworks, exit the park, or move during a parade.

I agree with your other points though for what its worth. All very valid and very true.

Shock horror. I'm not all doom and gloom! Although it has to be a) top quality and b) fast tracked. Let's see.

I guess I'm lucky as I usually only hear about the craziness during the fireworks - don't usually experience it. But I was there on the 40th too! And that's the only time I've ever been actually scared as to what might happen if there was some emergency. After the fireworks we stood in the same spot right in front of Casey's for nearly 30 minutes and moved maybe a foot. Thank god a stampede didn't happen.

 

[Ignohippo]

This has probably already been posted, but changes to the hub might explain moat drainage and refurb, at least partially: http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions...agic-kingdom-hub-modification-plans/20413.htm

Is this official art or from a fan? Is it based on actual blueprints?

If so, I can't imagine walking past Main Street and no longer seeing the water on either side. From the rendering, it seems somewhat unnecessary too. They could add the outer ring to the hub and still have the water go under the bridge.

And why not pave some of those spaces on the left and right of the bridge for more parade and fireworks viewing? It could be done in a way so it doesn't look like a big cement pad and it would add a lot for people trying to view.

 

[Master Yoda]

It does. IMHO.

Our past 4-5 trips, seeing Wishes a half dozen times each, and it's been bedlam. In September to October. God knows what its like late July. Crowd control was almost collapsing. On WDWs 40th (fair enough a special day) it was dangerous. The only part of the hub not being walked on by mobs of people was the water itself. PAC and frontline CMs were withdrawn. They just couldn't cope in the limited space.

Not to mention trying to move around pre fireworks, exit the park, or move during a parade.

I agree with your other points though for what its worth. All very valid and very true.

Shock horror. I'm not all doom and gloom! Although it has to be a) top quality and b) fast tracked. Let's see.

Agree 100%. Attendance at the fireworks are the main reason that we tend to avoid them unless we do something like the dessert party or a fireworks cruise. It is just not worth the aggravation anymore.

 

[Ignohippo]

I guess I'm lucky as I usually only hear about the craziness during the fireworks - don't usually experience it. But I was there on the 40th too! And that's the only time I've ever been actually scared as to what might happen if there was some emergency. After the fireworks we stood in the same spot right in front of Casey's for nearly 30 minutes and moved maybe a foot. Thank god a stampede didn't happen.

I've never been anywhere near the hub or Main Street around the time of Wishes (or after) when it hasn't been completely insane.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Looking at the picture It really doesn't look that bad..And it looks as the Rose Garden is being Eliminated.

 

[xdan0920]

Looking at the picture It really doesn't look that bad..And it looks as the Rose Garden is being Eliminated.

Those two things do not compute.

 

[WDWDad13]

As usual, Martin speaks the truth.

Going beyond that, though, this project is completely consistent with so much of what Disney is actually working on these days -- getting more out of what's already there, rather than building new stuff. It's brilliant, if it works. Improve guest satisfaction, and therefore repeat business, by making it easier and more pleasant for guests to enjoy what is already in the parks. That's a lot cheaper than building new attractions, and probably decreases operations dollars rather than increasing them.

The theory (business person speak here, not guest speak) is that guests, particularly at MK, already do not do everything in the parks that they would like to do, in part because there isn't enough time to do it. New attractions are expensive, and will displace other activities, but not increase the amount of things people can enjoy. Instead, we have a project that makes getting around the park easier, allows more people to get a prime view of the fireworks and brand new parade, costs precious little (in comparison to a new attraction), and will allow a bunch of people to leave the park without the distaste of horrible crowding. Maybe the saved time lets them get in an extra ride or do a little more shopping. Maybe the improved viewing means they enjoy the fireworks/parade even more. And and easy exit vs getting trampled is a significant improvement.

Many have said that this is the kind of thing that happens when bean-counters run the show. But that's not right. This is what happens when efficiency is the prime motivator. For people like us, who want more and better attractions, it's disappointing. But from an operations standpoint, it's brilliant.

very well said

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Those two things do not compute.

Did you even think about going to the news section...They have a before & after shot..

Current hub layout


Mockup of hub changes

 

[Lee]

Quick question for all those that know how to read those plans that were overlaid a number of pages back, as I'm no landscape architect or engineer of any kind. Is it an absolute known that the winding path through the rose garden area to the old swan boat landing closest to Stitch and Monsters, Inc is going away or is it just assumed? I don't see how its presence interfered with the planned new ring around the hub, or is its removal just being done to sort of compensate for the removal of other greenspace? I only ask as it appears from my unknowing blue print reading ability that the swan boat dock is still present on the plans. Would it just be kept for special events and accessed walking over the grass? Which I'm sure is done for VIPs all the time.

I'll have to go back and check, but I seem to recall the plans calling for removal of that path and the demo of the Swan Boat dock.

EDIT: Yep...

 

[HM Spectre]

With a sum like this one goes a long way into opening another theme park altogether. With a budget of $1 to $2 billion and tasked with the object to reduce the strain on the MK, is this the best they can come up with? What if instead $500 million went to DHS (SW Land + fireworks), $500 million to DAK (well, as they did: a new land + nightime offerings), and several hundred million to EPCOT and World of Color in Downtown Disney?

Maybe that would've spread the WDW crowds out so much that the MK would not have had to sacrifice show for efficiency, while the other parks suffer and continue to put great stress on the MK. Instead all parks would've been the better for it.

The one thing I will say in their defense is that the hub is not designed to handle even a decent crowd for fireworks. Everyone in the park going into a central hub with a single focal point and then filtering out all at once towards the same exit through narrow choke points is going to create congestion no matter how you slice it. If there are different outlets though (or different places for people to view), it'll help the flow immensely. I just wish they could figure out a way to do it without continuing the disappearance of greenery around the park.

That said, you absolutely have a valid point. The Magic Kingdom is the smallest of all WDW's parks, yet it pulls in 1.5x the people that Epcot does and nearly 2x what DHS and DAK muster up in attendance. Yes, that means it has a capacity problem (and it always will) but it sure would help if guests had better non-MK options and chose to spread out a bit. Plus, if they invested and made their other parks more appealing, maybe they could even bring in MORE people to fill those empty rooms and restaurants that are just sitting there begging to make money for the mouse. Novel concept, huh?

 

[xdan0920]

Did you even think about going to the news section...They have a before & after shot..

Current hub layout


Mockup of hub changes

Ok....

What I was saying was....

Looking at the picture It really doesn't look that bad..And it looks as the Rose Garden is being Eliminated.

You said the Rose Garden was being eliminated, but it didn't look bad. I say, if the Rose Garden is going, it is bad. Therefore, your two statements don't compute.