Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

[WDWYankee15]

If they are in creasing viewing capacity everywhere around the hub having to fuss over prolonged waits, queuing early, etc... shouldn't be an issue anymore, making the two small area FP+ areas kind of pointless

Well getting a FP+ is pointless for Captain EO, but yet it is still available. So even if your theory is correct, logic and common sense have no place in the FP+ discussion...

 

[ParentsOf4]

As usual, Martin speaks the truth.

Going beyond that, though, this project is completely consistent with so much of what Disney is actually working on these days -- getting more out of what's already there, rather than building new stuff. It's brilliant, if it works. Improve guest satisfaction, and therefore repeat business, by making it easier and more pleasant for guests to enjoy what is already in the parks. That's a lot cheaper than building new attractions, and probably decreases operations dollars rather than increasing them.

The Central Hub redesign is like the Dumbo clone in the New Fantasyland.

It increases MK attraction capacity without necessarily drawing in new guests.

It demonstrates a willingness on Disney's part to improve their parks for the vast majority of guests without having to tie it directly to revenue.

Now, if only they would clone Toy Story Mania and Soarin'.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I didn't have to time to finish my post. My other point is they haven't added a legit E Ticket since 1992! I see your point about the FLE,but that's no excuse for the neglect in the 90's and 2000's. If they would have added ONE high demand ride every 7 years we wouldn't be in this spot I assert.

Oh, I agree. I am by no means supporting the decisions that have led to this point. If Disney had been adding to the MK at a reasonable rate the past two decades, I think views of New Fantasyland would be difference--a nice diversion with needed capacity that complements previous large-scale additions. As there have been no large scale additions in decades, a lot of pressure was applied to New Fantasyland, establishing standards it never could have met.

There's always Diagon Alley...

 

[NowInc]

Well getting a FP+ is pointless for Captain EO, but yet it is still available. So even if your theory is correct, logic and common sense have no place in the FP+ discussion...

Sad to say, but "If they create it, they will come". Captain EO had a LINE 2 weekends ago when I was there, as did pretty much every other un-popular attraction (except COP). I can't help but think this is because people got suckered into using it for FP+ selections

 

[ToTBellHop]

The Central Hub redesign is like the Dumbo clone in the New Fantasyland.

It increases MK attraction capacity without necessarily drawing in new guests.

It demonstrates a willingness on Disney's part to improve their parks for the vast majority of guests without having to tie it directly to revenue.

Now, if only they would clone Toy Story Mania and Soarin'.

I don't know that this is a willingness. They've been forced. TDO is about as "willing" to invest as a toddler is "willing" to get into a car seat.

 

[JohnD]

This has probably already been posted, but changes to the hub might explain moat drainage and refurb, at least partially: http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions...agic-kingdom-hub-modification-plans/20413.htm

 

[kap91]

This would not be needed if they would have added a couple of high demand E Tickets to the upper west end(frontierland expansion) and upper east end( the joke that is storybook circus). They don't get that high demand attractions can distribute crowds. Let's be real nothing will solve the problems in late December regardless, but for most of the year more high demand attractions would solve the problem.

That's not really true though. By building more high profile attractions you only increase the MK's popularity and attract more guests. Then - since most of them only come once in a few years or considerably less - come time for wishes everyone still piles into the hub and Main Street - because that's the classic image of what the fireworks look like. Hardly any tourist is going to want to watch the nightly fireworks from Frontierland or Storybook Circus or anywhere else - even if you add a bunch of fountains and lasers and who knows what else to an area far away from the hub. And now since more people are in the park - the crowds just get worse.

New e-ticket attractions might serve to disperse crowds during the day but that's highly dependent on just how many more guests they bring in - my guess is they'd bring in enough people to mostly offset any dispersing effect they generate.

Now obviously the MK has to continue adding things to avoid being thought of as stale, but given what I've stated above it only makes sense that you'd see then doing exactly what they've been doing: focus a lot of infrastructure, efficiency, and improving the average guests experience and add new attractions at a fairly slow pace.

And briefly to address the argument that TDO should focus on the other parks more to draw crowds away from the MK 2 things. A- this is exactly what you are seeing. It's AK that got the next big expansion, as well as a host of nighttime entertainment and while whatever is in store for DHS might currently be on hold - that is inevitably going to happen. B - as others have stated MK is the flagship park and by definition will always be more popular regardless of whatever is built at the others. If someone only has a one time shot to visit WDW, unless they're exclusively teenagers (and even then a lot of the time) it's going to be the MK.

I for one am excited about this - it would've been better with the extra tall trees but it doesn't look to be removing all that much and the benefits are huge. I'm happy to see WDW spending so much at this point in the past few years on improving its ability to handle crowds, and it's operations, because it only makes it easier for them to build those high-profile e-tickets in the future - when the time is right.

 

[Gabe1]

Quick update, pretty please.

This thread exploded, missed a few days, are we still speculating or has it been confirmed some of the moat and some more landscaping is tootles and bye-bye?

 

[kap91]

Quick update, pretty please.

This thread exploded, missed a few days, are we still speculating or has it been confirmed some of the moat and some more landscaping is tootles and bye-bye?

A very small portion of the moat near the plaza and Casey's is being covered with more standing areas and walkways. It is unclear if it will continue to flow underneath or it will just look like it.

Supposedly new landscaping in the form of strategically placed trees that block views of fireworks has been cut but this does not mean there will be no landscaping. Lee posted a blueprint of what looks like pretty detailed flower beds and shrubs.

As far as current landscaping being removed - the drawings don't really indicate anything specifically but don't overlap with a large portion of the rose garden nor the topiaries near noodle station so it's conceivable that they could go or stay.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

This project needs doing.

Does it though?

This project is part of the larger project to drastically increase the MK's capacity, at least to ease its overcrowding issues. There is no sense in increasing one capacity bottleneck without the others, that would merely mean replacing overcrowding.

The investments are enormous. NFL - which is not meant to add new rides, but to increase capacity. Paved over hub. Widened walkways. Bathrooms. Removal of trees. MS alley passageway. Bus station expansion. Ferry expansion. And a fair deal of NGE investments too.

With a sum like this one goes a long way into opening another theme park altogether. With a budget of $1 to $2 billion and tasked with the object to reduce the strain on the MK, is this the best they can come up with? What if instead $500 million went to DHS (SW Land + fireworks), $500 million to DAK (well, as they did: a new land + nightime offerings), and several hundred million to EPCOT and World of Color in Downtown Disney?

Maybe that would've spread the WDW crowds out so much that the MK would not have had to sacrifice show for efficiency, while the other parks suffer and continue to put great stress on the MK. Instead all parks would've been the better for it.

 

[MichWolv]

The Central Hub redesign is like the Dumbo clone in the New Fantasyland.

It increases MK attraction capacity without necessarily drawing in new guests.

It demonstrates a willingness on Disney's part to improve their parks for the vast majority of guests without having to tie it directly to revenue.

Now, if only they would clone Toy Story Mania and Soarin'.

Indeed. Not that there isn't a revenue goal in this, but you're right in that the revenue increase is indirect. If guests are happier, they'll come back. And if guests spend less time saving a spot for a parade or fireworks, they'll have more time to shop. But unlike the building of restaurants and the rerouting of ride exists through stores, the revenue increase is a byproduct (an intended one, to be sure), not the proximate goal.

 

[Tim Lohr]

Well getting a FP+ is pointless for Captain EO, but yet it is still available. So even if your theory is correct, logic and common sense have no place in the FP+ discussion...

I just get the feeling that if you have to use one of you 3 FP+s to enter that viewing area, it probably won't ever be very crowded

 

[inDiG3nCe]

Here is how far the moat has drained as of 2/25 @ 12:26pm

 

[kap91]

Does it though?

This project is part of the larger project to drastically increase the MK's capacity, at least to ease its overcrowding issues. There is no sense in increasing one capacity bottleneck without the others, that would merely mean replacing overcrowding.

Yes it is, because additions to any park mean more guests visiting the MK. The MK needs everything listed in your post. Some if the issues (such as the bottleneck near small world) have been long standing for decades and it's brilliant to see them finally addressed. If not now when? In 10-20 years when the crowds are even worse.

AK is getting its expansion, Downtown Disney is getting a large expansion, DHS will get it eventually. Epcot someday, though I can see why it's not a priority. Nothing being done now precludes more being done at the other parks at a later date - but there is no way with the amount of things needing to be done that it makes any sense for it all to be done at once. And if you have to choose what to do first - focusing on infrastructure and efficiency is a heck of better option than the other way around.

I don't see where show has been compromised in most of these cases - the blueprints do not indicate a "paving over" of the hub. They indicate mostly new pathways where there is currently nothing but grass. And there looks to be plenty of green left over. Rapunzels tower is the only thing that really seems to intrude on show - and it's not like its bad show, more good show being seen from a bad spot. The trees around it will grow anyway.

I know we all want a lot for WDW - but it can't all happen when we want it to. As you said their investing billions in a relatively short timeframe on a continual basis- not to mention more billions at the other resorts. I can't think of a time in its history where more investment was being poorer in expect perhaps during initial construction. Things will happen, things are happening, and we are definitely not in the horror of the 90's anymore. Disney has a lot of cash but it's pockets aren't limitless.[/QUOTE]

 

[71jason]

Indeed. Not that there isn't a revenue goal in this, but you're right in that the revenue increase is indirect. If guests are happier, they'll come back. And if guests spend less time saving a spot for a parade or fireworks, they'll have more time to shop. But unlike the building of restaurants and the rerouting of ride exists through stores, the revenue increase is a byproduct (an intended one, to be sure), not the proximate goal.

The sudden willingness to do this and build a second ferry dock suggests to me a uptick in their surveys, or possibly on the "civilian" message boards, saying "it's too much hassle to leave the park at night." That or a lawsuit from someone trampled in the stampede.

 

[devoy1701]

That's not really true though. By building more high profile attractions you only increase the MK's popularity and attract more guests. Then - since most of them only come once in a few years or considerably less - come time for wishes everyone still piles into the hub and Main Street - because that's the classic image of what the fireworks look like. Hardly any tourist is going to want to watch the nightly fireworks from Frontierland or Storybook Circus or anywhere else - even if you add a bunch of fountains and lasers and who knows what else to an area far away from the hub. And now since more people are in the park - the crowds just get worse.

New e-ticket attractions might serve to disperse crowds during the day but that's highly dependent on just how many more guests they bring in - my guess is they'd bring in enough people to mostly offset any dispersing effect they generate.

Now obviously the MK has to continue adding things to avoid being thought of as stale, but given what I've stated above it only makes sense that you'd see then doing exactly what they've been doing: focus a lot of infrastructure, efficiency, and improving the average guests experience and add new attractions at a fairly slow pace.

And briefly to address the argument that TDO should focus on the other parks more to draw crowds away from the MK 2 things. A- this is exactly what you are seeing. It's AK that got the next big expansion, as well as a host of nighttime entertainment and while whatever is in store for DHS might currently be on hold - that is inevitably going to happen. B - as others have stated MK is the flagship park and by definition will always be more popular regardless of whatever is built at the others. If someone only has a one time shot to visit WDW, unless they're exclusively teenagers (and even then a lot of the time) it's going to be the MK.

I for one am excited about this - it would've been better with the extra tall trees but it doesn't look to be removing all that much and the benefits are huge. I'm happy to see WDW spending so much at this point in the past few years on improving its ability to handle crowds, and it's operations, because it only makes it easier for them to build those high-profile e-tickets in the future - when the time is right.

Adding more C/D/E tickets to Magic Kingdom's lineup, in addition to expanding the offerings at the other parks absolutely would keep projects like this from being needed. The number of guests visiting won't continue to increase forever as you add more attractions. When you get to an annual attendance number like that of MK, each additional attraction is going to add incrementally less guests above who you already have visiting. This isn't like Universal was a few years back where they had suffered tremendous attendance loses and there wasn't anywhere else for them to go but up.

Add more attractions to disperse existing crowds at MK, add more night time offerings to disperse guests to other parks to calm the exidous after Wishes. Add some other nighttime show to the Rivers of American or Tomorrowland to help funnel portions of the crowd back into the park instead of down Main Street after Wishes. Disneyland purposely runs night-time entertainment shows (fireworks, Fantasmic, World of Color, Nighttime parade when they have one) all at the same time so you have to pick what you want to see. I hardly call expanding the sidewalk and removing water features the only solution to the overcrowding of MK.

Heck, maybe they should raise 1-day ticket prices to $125. That should help the congestion!

 

[WDWDad13]

could it be possible they are doing this looking at long term and seeing another MK expansion down the road? Of course, this better come after some steroids are pumped into the other 3 parks

 

[Scuttle]

Adding more C/D/E tickets to Magic Kingdom's lineup, in addition to expanding the offerings at the other parks absolutely would keep projects like this from being needed. The number of guests visiting won't continue to increase forever as you add more attractions. When you get to an annual attendance number like that of MK, each additional attraction is going to add incrementally less guests above who you already have visiting. This isn't like Universal was a few years back where they had suffered tremendous attendance loses and there wasn't anywhere else for them to go but up.

Add more attractions to disperse existing crowds at MK, add more night time offerings to disperse guests to other parks to calm the exidous after Wishes. Add some other nighttime show to the Rivers of American or Tomorrowland to help funnel portions of the crowd back into the park instead of down Main Street after Wishes. Disneyland purposely runs night-time entertainment shows (fireworks, Fantasmic, World of Color, Nighttime parade when they have one) all at the same time so you have to pick what you want to see. I hardly call expanding the sidewalk and removing water features the only solution to the overcrowding of MK.

Heck, maybe they should raise 1-day ticket prices to $125. That should help the congestion!

I couldn't agree more, minus that ticket price suggestion... Lol

 

[sshindel]

As usual, Martin speaks the truth.

Going beyond that, though, this project is completely consistent with so much of what Disney is actually working on these days -- getting more out of what's already there, rather than building new stuff. It's brilliant, if it works. Improve guest satisfaction, and therefore repeat business, by making it easier and more pleasant for guests to enjoy what is already in the parks. That's a lot cheaper than building new attractions, and probably decreases operations dollars rather than increasing them.

The theory (business person speak here, not guest speak) is that guests, particularly at MK, already do not do everything in the parks that they would like to do, in part because there isn't enough time to do it. New attractions are expensive, and will displace other activities, but not increase the amount of things people can enjoy. Instead, we have a project that makes getting around the park easier, allows more people to get a prime view of the fireworks and brand new parade, costs precious little (in comparison to a new attraction), and will allow a bunch of people to leave the park without the distaste of horrible crowding. Maybe the saved time lets them get in an extra ride or do a little more shopping. Maybe the improved viewing means they enjoy the fireworks/parade even more. And and easy exit vs getting trampled is a significant improvement.

Many have said that this is the kind of thing that happens when bean-counters run the show. But that's not right. This is what happens when efficiency is the prime motivator. For people like us, who want more and better attractions, it's disappointing. But from an operations standpoint, it's brilliant.

On second thought, maybe a poor choice of gifs...

 

[danlb_2000]

View attachment 46903 Here is how far the moat has drained as of 2/25 @ 12:26pm

It appears that most of the work on the moat is happening down on the Main Street side. I am wondering if plan to dam off that section then re-fill the rest of the moat, or will this stay drained until that part of the project is complete?