Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

[71jason]

or, less crazily, expand the dang place. Soak up those ridiculous crowds into, now this will sound nuts but hear me out, NEW MIND BLOWING ATTRACTIONS. Give the guests something to do besides camp out on MS for an hour waiting to watch 15 minutes of fireworks. And something to do after the Fireworks so not everyone stampedes to the exits.

Also, you are very on point regarding the other parks. Invest in the other 3 parks, give guests a reason to spend an evening in, say, DHS instead of park hopping to the MK and over stuffing the park after dark.

Great idea in theory, but I don't know that it's a practical solution. This is a huge issue even on moderately busy days. Two issues, both ultimately of Disney's own making: first, much like the meet-and-greet monster they created, decades of ads have subtly suggested you're a failure as a parent if your kids don't watch Wishes from directly in front of the Castle. Second, MSUSA wasn't built for the number of guests the park gets. Not even taking into account double-wide strollers for kids up to 10 and ECVs.

A new Fantasmic is not going to make guests skip Wishes. And opening late is not going to make they stay (Fourth of July, I'm like why would people leave right away? Do they not see this crowd headed toward the exit? But there 80% of them go.) Tourists don't think rationally.

While I'm cautiously optimistic this will open up viewing areas and facilitate movement without making the park look like a parking lot or an amphitheater, not sure what good it does once everyone is outside the park. Second ferry dock will help a little with the initial surge, but still going to need the rat maze for the monorails.

 

[NowInc]

interesting thought.... but what would your suggestions be with the castle being the center icon in the park?

They found a couple of ways in california

 

[flynnibus]

No amount of added attractions would change the fact that MK nighttime entertainment is a must see for many guests, many who are "once in a lifetime" visitors.

It's worse now because it's the only stuff left! Back in the day when you had fireworks at MGM, Epcot, AND Pleasure Island... you would distribute the load a bit by having people spread out across the property. Now, there is only EPCOT to have a chance of holding people somewhere else besides MK late.

The crowding is exaggerated by Disney's thinning elsewhere.

 

[Bolt]

I feel like you'd want trees on the outer ring to keep people moving - stop people from wanting to stop traffic.

 

[flynnibus]

A new Fantasmic is not going to make guests skip Wishes. And opening late is not going to make they stay (Fourth of July, I'm like why would people leave right away? Do they not see this crowd headed toward the exit? But there 80% of them go.) Tourists don't think rationally.

Give people reasons to be in the other parks.. and they will be. Instead we've neutered every other park.

 

[jakeman]

Like the continuing degradation of experience at WDW, Nah guess that one is not important.

Then perhaps it's time for you to cash out and move on if the experience is no longer providing the value for the cost and incenses you so.

Give people reasons to be in the other parks.. and they will be. Instead we've neutered every other park.

In the other parks, at the old PI, back at the resorts...anything. There are some nights in the summer where the only thing to do after 9:00 p.m. is go to MK. That doesn't make sense.

 

[xdan0920]

@SpectroMan93, @71jason, @The Empress Lilly, I see you're points about the fact that people have to see the Fireworks. I get it. What people don't need, is to see them 3 times in a 6 day trip. That is what a lot of people do. A real lot. Because what are their other options?

Also, I really do believe, if people had MORE options at the MK, they may not cram into the hub multiple times a trip to see fireworks. Maybe they watch them on day 2. Then day 3 and 5 they continue to explore the park at night instead.

Keeping the park open past the fireworks is a GREAT solution as well. If even a third of the guests went back out into the park instead of out of the park, egress would become a much more enjoyable experience. Without having to send people off stage to get out and wait for 3 buses or 4 Ferry Boats.

 

[Master Yoda]

Give people reasons to be in the other parks.. and they will be. Instead we've neutered every other park.

No question that this needs to be be done, my query is will it ever work?

In the average guests mind, MK is the alpha and omega of the parks in WDW. Any trip to WDW, no matter how short, must include MK. When convention guests are in town they think MK. I don't know if that dynamic will ever change no matter what they build at the other 3 parks.

 

[NowInc]

@SpectroMan93, @71jason, @The Empress Lilly, I see you're points about the fact that people have to see the Fireworks. I get it. What people don't need, is to see them 3 times in a 6 day trip. That is what a lot of people do. A real lot. Because what are their other options?

Also, I really do believe, if people had MORE options at the MK, they may not cram into the hub multiple times a trip to see fireworks. Maybe they watch them on day 2. Then day 3 and 5 they continue to explore the park at night instead.

Keeping the park open past the fireworks is a GREAT solution as well. If even a third of the guests went back out into the park instead of out of the park, egress would become a much more enjoyable experience. Without having to send people off stage to get out and wait for 3 buses or 4 Ferry Boats.

The last, id say 10 times that Ive gone, the parks were open WAY past the fireworks.

 

[ford91exploder]

Then perhaps it's time for you to cash out and move on if the experience is no longer providing the value for the cost and incenses you so.
In the other parks, at the old PI, back at the resorts...anything. There are some nights in the summer where the only thing to do after 9:00 p.m. is go to MK. That doesn't make sense.

That is precisely what I am doing right now, If more voted with their dollars we might see a better experience

 

[jakeman]

No question that this needs to be be done, my query is will it ever work?

In the average guests mind, MK is the alpha and omega of the parks in WDW. Any trip to WDW, no matter how short, must include MK. When convention guests are in town they think MK. I don't know if that dynamic will ever change no matter what they build at the other 3 parks.

I think that's where the marketing shift away from the MK has to come into play. While Mk will also be primary, pre and onsite marketing really should focus on distributing guest throughout property.

 

[flynnibus]

No question that this needs to be be done, my query is will it ever work?

In the average guests mind, MK is the alpha and omega of the parks in WDW. Any trip to WDW, no matter how short, must include MK. When convention guests are in town they think MK. I don't know if that dynamic will ever change no matter what they build at the other 3 parks.

Like dan said.. it doesn't have to mean some other park overtakes MK.. It just means take some nights away from the MK so you don't cram ALL of WDW into the MK every night.

 

[wannab@dis]

In the other parks, at the old PI, back at the resorts...anything. There are some nights in the summer where the only thing to do after 9:00 p.m. is go to MK. That doesn't make sense.

In Nov/Dec they have the Osbourne lights at the Studios. During our visit, it was difficult to even move through the streets due to the crowds. The night before, we couldn't move through the hub at MK prior to Wishes. The next night, we staked out a spot at Epcot early, but a few minutes prior to Illuminations, the crowds were pressing in. Three nights straight, three nighttime events, all three were crowded and this was the first week of December --- a typical slow period.

People come out of all sections of the parks for the nighttime shows and events. Easing the congestion is a good thing. Soon we'll have a nighttime show at AK and it will be the same. As someone earlier noted, they need to make sure the parks are open for a couple of hours after these shows. That will ease some of the exit congestion. But, other than added space, you just can't decrease the crowds for the nighttime shows.

 

[jakeman]

That is precisely what I am doing right now, If more voted with their dollars we might see a better experience

You're not responsible for others. So perhaps just moving on is the most appropriate course instead of dwelling on it?

 

[xdan0920]

The last, id say 10 times that Ive gone, the parks were open WAY past the fireworks.

I just checked for tonight. Looks like it's open for an hour past wishes. I guess it is more perception then reality that Wishes = park closing. But if I (a seasoned WDW guest) was under the impression the Park closes after wishes most of the time, I wonder if the average guest has any idea that they have a couple more hours of park time.

Either way, if people had reason to turn and head back out into the park, it would seriously relieve congestion on MS to get out.

Back on topic a bit, I think this added ring MAY help with that. I am sure a lot of guests see the crush of people and decide against fighting the current to get back out to the rest of the park.

 

[wannab@dis]

Back on topic a bit, I think this added ring MAY help with that. I am sure a lot of guests see the crush of people and decide against fighting the current to get back out to the rest of the park.

I think this is the main point of the second ring. People move out to the hub and MS to watch the fireworks and then decide not to fight against the exit flow. If we're planning on staying after Wishes, we rarely go over to the hub or MS to watch. But, we've seen it many times over the years and once per visit from MS is our norm.

 

[NowInc]

I just checked for tonight. Looks like it's open for an hour past wishes. I guess it is more perception then reality that Wishes = park closing. But if I (a seasoned WDW guest) was under the impression the Park closes after wishes most of the time, I wonder if the average guest has any idea that they have a couple more hours of park time.

Either way, if people had reason to turn and head back out into the park, it would seriously relieve congestion on MS to get out.

Back on topic a bit, I think this added ring MAY help with that. I am sure a lot of guests see the crush of people and decide against fighting the current to get back out to the rest of the park.

Typically I actually skip wishes and will do rides during the fireworks, and then hang around for the remaining time in the lands since thats when the lines are the shortest. Most people, aware or not of the park still being open, use this time to shuffle (slowly) out, while others know this and get the best time out of it

 

[rioriz]

No question that this needs to be be done, my query is will it ever work?

In the average guests mind, MK is the alpha and omega of the parks in WDW. Any trip to WDW, no matter how short, must include MK. When convention guests are in town they think MK. I don't know if that dynamic will ever change no matter what they build at the other 3 parks.

I agree with this statement

When I was a Vacation Planner for WDW I would get multiple coming to my window at Epcot asking about the park. When I inquired what parks have they visited already the overriding statement was "We visited Disney World (the Magic Kingdom) yesterday!"

I would then politely roll my eyes away from them and then go on to explain they were still visiting "Disney World" today!

 

[ToTBellHop]

No question that this needs to be be done, my query is will it ever work?

In the average guests mind, MK is the alpha and omega of the parks in WDW. Any trip to WDW, no matter how short, must include MK. When convention guests are in town they think MK. I don't know if that dynamic will ever change no matter what they build at the other 3 parks.

Of course, every WDW vacation includes time at the MK. However, if there were more things to do at the other three parks, I would imagine people would spend less time crowding the MK. Most people have a set amount of time they are able to vacation for, so if they go to DHS and say "there isn't much for my family to do here," they will not return during their vacation and will instead spend that time riding Dumbo for the 4th, 5th, and 6th time. If I HAVE to go to Epcot to ride the newest and the greatest, that is taking me away from MK, if only for a little bit. Adding capacity to MK was and is necessary, but if that's the only place you add capacity, not surprisingly, that's where everybody crowds to.

 

[wannab@dis]

Of course, every WDW vacation includes time at the MK. However, if there were more things to do at the other three parks, I would imagine people would spend less time crowding the MK. Most people have a set amount of time they are able to vacation for, so if they go to DHS and say "there isn't much for my family to do here," they will not return during their vacation and will instead spend that time riding Dumbo for the 4th, 5th, and 6th time. If I HAVE to go to Epcot to ride the newest and the greatest, that is taking me away from MK, if only for a little bit. Adding capacity to MK was and is necessary, but if that's the only place you add capacity, not surprisingly, that's where everybody crowds to.

There's no doubt additions to the other parks would help spreading out the crowds. AK is underway, but Epcot and the Studios need that investment also. It will be interesting to see if we're having this same nighttime crowd discussion for AK in 3 years. If Avatar and the new nighttime show are popular, we may be seeing another crowd dissipation issue.