Magic Kingdom set to break attendance records next week? 7am to 3am operating hours!

[PhotoDave219]

but a friend (TDLFAN) posted some amazing pics on another site's TDL board (Micechat) showing the crowds at TDL this past Tuesday.

Since this thread was ostensibly started to talk about how big the crowds are at MK now, I thought some of you folks (some won't even bother looking) might like to see what a TRULY crowded park (in the middle of an economic meltdown) looks like.

It also may make you wonder how 'real' the numbers are that show annually the MK is the most-visited theme park in the world.

I can count on perhaps three days (NYE, Christmas and Easter) when the MK has been remotely as packed as TDL -- and TDL's capacity is considerably higher to begin with as it has many more attractions and NO dead zones AND has a much higher level of staffing.

Anyway, it really speaks volumes of how if you build something of TRUE DISNEY QUALITY and keep it fresh and clean and staffed by people who care that folks will show up with very little discounting at all.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? Going to TDR this year!~

Just a side note/through here on Tokyo (i assume thats what you mean) but aren't an insane majority of the CMs there PT employees?
(I just view that as a way to keep labor costs down)

Once again I think that the major difference here is how much profit is reinvested into the parks. OLC seems to make reinvest a larger percentage towards their quality (this is based on observation, not actual numbers) or such is my perception.

Makes you wonder why WDW has to be the cash cow for the company, with such other diverse media and entertainment holdings, why does the lion's share of the profitability of TWDC have to come from WDW?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Makes you wonder why WDW has to be the cash cow for the company, with such other diverse media and entertainment holdings, why does the lion's share of the profitability of TWDC have to come from WDW?

Because they only get 10% of ticket sales from Tokyo and 5% from food sales.

They get 100% of your money from WDW and there you're expected to stay a week or 10 days unlike Disneyland Resort, Disneyland Resort Paris or Hong Kong Disneyland where you'd have a harder time finding reasons to stay that long.

In short, go to Magic Kingdom where you give Disney lots of money for the best product they got!*

*Because you didn't look up pictures of TDR online and you're so happy with your churro you can't remember how many more shows, attractions, shops and restaurants used to be in the park and in better shape too!

 

[The Mom]

Let's keep this civil and quit the insults. Thanks.

I'm calling strike two on this thread. Please stay on topic without making it political or personal. If you are unable to do that, then please don't post. Thank you.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Because they only get 10% of ticket sales from Tokyo and 5% from food sales.

They get 100% of your money from WDW and there you're expected to stay a week or 10 days unlike Disneyland Resort, Disneyland Resort Paris or Hong Kong Disneyland where you'd have a harder time finding reasons to stay that long.

Wow, you've totally missed the point. The profits from P&R include those royalties/monies from TDL, HKDL and the other parks.

What I meant was the other TWDC divisions. ESPN. ABC. WDP. Consumer products and the other countless arms of TWDC. Why aren't they held to the same profit standards that WDW & Park & Resorts is held to? Why does WDW have to give up all the money they make back to the parent company rather than a (larger) percentage kept in Florida?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Wow, you've totally missed the point. The profits from P&R include those royalties/monies from TDL, HKDL and the other parks.

What I meant was the other TWDC divisions. ESPN. ABC. WDP. Consumer products and the other countless arms of TWDC. Why aren't they held to the same profit standards that WDW & Park & Resorts is held to? Why does WDW have to give up all the money they make back to the parent company rather than a (larger) percentage kept in Florida?

They might be held to the same profit standards but it's unlikely that Disney may see all those profits, if the product is doing well. There may be many divisions of the company but they all have to support themselves first before additional profits ca be sent out elsewhere.

We know that Disney Stores are not doing so well and neither is HKDL, I've heard ABC isn't too great right now either.

In terms of movies, the profit system works this way (I'm sure you'll know this but to just help me explain). Weekend 1 profits work like this: 90% goes to the film company and 10% goes to the theatres, weekend 2 80%/20%, weekend 3 70%/30% etc. A movie may makes lots of money but how much profits are seen by the distributor may not always look great (especially given the film's production budget and how individuals such as the producer are given money). The profits from one movie then have to go to support the production of others, and unless you have a super huge blockbuster the profits from film production may not be enough to significantly support other divisions of Disney.

Licensing products are another profit divider. You may buy a Disney toy or lunchbox from Toys-R-Us but how much of your money will Disney see if the profits have to go to the toy manufacturer and seller?

I'm sure with TV, advertisers are entitled to a percentage of the profits themsleves as are the manufacturers of DVD and Blu-ray (which Disney is cutting back on).

With WDW, it's a resort run by Disney themselves and it's likely that they see a greater profit margin for themselves then they would through their other brands (and we know of the parks and resorts division 80% of the profits come from WDW).With this in mind it just makes greater sense for WDW to give back money to the parent company if other divisions see lower profit margins or require bigger funds (I'm sure DCA's 1.1 billion make over would be hard to fund with DLR profits alone). I'm sure there are enough profits from WDW to give back to both the parent company and build more in the future, but I'm not sure where the money WDW keeps is allocated. With 140 Vice Presidents to pay I'm sure money for development of new attractions is hard to come by, but there must be some way to manage the funds properly to keep the resort running and make a decent profit.

 

[Disneyfanman]

110% disagree.
I have been going to one of Disneys destinations as an adult since 1989.
Went many times before with my family w/the first being in 1973 (age 3)
Considering all the expanding that has occured both at WDW and DLR, i consider the level of satisfaction to better than ever.
Some may disagree and it is all in the eye of the beholder.
To ME and millions, Disney is as good or better than ever.
I dont need a part time cm, or a so anyone else to tell me how good or bad WDW is.
I know how my kids/wife love our trips. NEVER disappointed.
I actually prefer D.L. over the Magic Kingdom simply due to nastalgic reasons, and it has GREAT attractions...BUT,WDW wins hands down as a destination for an entire vacation.
So, call me whatever one wants too, I love WDW and think its offerings are better now than before.
From refurbs, to new attraction (E.E.) and more, We will continue to enjoy ourselves. Like i stated, some will have the opinion that WDW isnt as good as before, well, good for you. Thats your right.
But, it doesnt make it (right).
Looking forward to 2011, our next trip.
And, if the economy is still slow, we can take advantage of a good deal, like Disney is offering now.

I could have written this post. Disney DOES miss-fire sometimes. And they do make (in hindsight) silly business first decisions that I may not always agree with. But at the end of the day, they are still the best on earth at what they do, and until that changes I will go and spend and enjoy.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So if they didn't have 140 Vice Presidents......

 

[whylightbulb]

110% disagree.
I have been going to one of Disneys destinations as an adult since 1989.
Went many times before with my family w/the first being in 1973 (age 3)
Considering all the expanding that has occured both at WDW and DLR, i consider the level of satisfaction to better than ever.
Some may disagree and it is all in the eye of the beholder.
To ME and millions, Disney is as good or better than ever.
I dont need a part time cm, or a so anyone else to tell me how good or bad WDW is.
I know how my kids/wife love our trips. NEVER disappointed.
I actually prefer D.L. over the Magic Kingdom simply due to nastalgic reasons, and it has GREAT attractions...BUT,WDW wins hands down as a destination for an entire vacation.
So, call me whatever one wants too, I love WDW and think its offerings are better now than before.
From refurbs, to new attraction (E.E.) and more, We will continue to enjoy ourselves. Like i stated, some will have the opinion that WDW isnt as good as before, well, good for you. Thats your right.
But, it doesnt make it (right).
Looking forward to 2011, our next trip.
And, if the economy is still slow, we can take advantage of a good deal, like Disney is offering now.

[FONT=&quot] I 110% disagree with you. There are quantifiable markers that show how Disney’s standards have been dropping since 1994. I thought it might be fun to do an attraction by attraction analysis of almost everything that has been introduced for the last 15 years. As you read this try to compare these offerings with the likes of Mansion, TOT and so on. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1995: New Tomorrowland including Alien Encounter. Here we saw the beginnings of the reduction in expectations and quality. While not a horrible attraction, it certainly didn’t live up to the hype by any stretch of the imagination. I was at WDI at the time and remember the original scope and mock ups. Because management didn’t know or understand where they wanted to go with this, WDI was left trying to interpret their vague instructions. Basically we ended up with a watered down show and a mediocre script. Then a new team was commissioned to fix the blunders mostly caused by management. Unfortunately they were not given the resources to do a proper job so we ended up with something a bit worse. So with lack of clear vision and leadership the Magic Kingdom was left with a status quo attraction.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1996: Mickey's Toontown Fair; Universe of Energy with Ellen. Toontown fair was supposed to be another one of those so-called temporary attractions. 13 years later, even after the far superior Anaheim and Tokyo versions as well as some cheap upgrades to ours, we still have close to the same temporary venues. With respect to Universe of Energy, while perhaps a slightly more entertaining show than the original, there is still nothing here to get excited about. Another in a long line to come of average upgrades and new attractions.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1998: Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin; "The Enchanted Tiki Room - Under New Management"; Animal Kingdom attractions: The Boneyard; Countdown to Extinction; Cretaceous Trail; Kilimanjaro Safaris; Gorilla Falls Exploration Trail; Wildlife Express; Conservation Station; "It's Tough to be a Bug". This was a big year for WDW. We saw two of the only attractions that deserve to be under the Disney name in the last 15 years in my opinion. We also saw several examples of Disney’s worst with Buzz Lightyear and the new Tiki Room. Management’s decision to make the Tiki Room hip and up to date takes us out of the romanticized version of Arabia and the remote jungles of foreign lands directly into a nightclub. This has got to be one of the worst scripts and concepts in Disney history. Buzz is a very cheap, dusty UV Sintra cutout, interactive targeting attraction. Sally Corporation and Halloween Productions use a much more advanced and user-friendly gun. Buzz’s guns are frustrating and falling apart. How is it that Disney can spend over $8 million for a piece of junk while Halloween Productions can install a similar ride in terms of scenic construction, interactivity and lighting, only with better quality, for under $3 million? Are you still willing to say most of WDW’s product has been up to par in the last 15 years?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

On the plus side, Tough to Be A Bug is, in my opinion, the best 4D attraction anywhere. With multiple show innovations introduced, detailed and elaborate set, top-notch animatronic and funny storyline this show is a winner. This is a perfect example of what can be done with a decent budget and good management. In fact, the special effects department actually came in a million under budget and the money was utilized for the Hopper AA. Kilimanjaro is also a great attraction that delivers what is promised. The rest of Animal Kingdom was okay but nothing that couldn’t be experienced at a nice zoo. Countdown to Extinction is a terrible copy of Temple of the Forbidden Eye minus the scenery, effects, good story, scale and entertainment value of Indy. Other than that it’s a bunch of dark rooms with a sophomoric script and a few decent dino figures. By this time we were starting to see the trend we would have to accept from most of Disney’s new attractions. So far, 2 attractions out of about 10 make the grade.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1999: Test Track; Rock 'n' Roller Coaster Starring Aerosmith; The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh; Millennium Village, Leave a Legacy, Imagination! presented by Kodak; "Sounds Dangerous Starring Drew Carey"; "Bear in the Big Blue House". Test Track to me was one of the biggest disappointments yet. Great ride technology with absolutely no show! Dramatically reduced in scope with a huge loop cut for the finale as well as several key show components. This was one of the first cheap warehouse-type sets that we would begin seeing in many of the new offerings. The attitude here was “it will be good enough because there is a thrill element”. Winnie the Pooh was a complete disappointment after seeing what Tokyo decided to buy. Toad was better than that piece of $%#$^#. With the exception of the flood scene, this ride with its extra black space and exposed mechs is a dud. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

I think most would agree that Imagination deserves its own paragraph. By this point even the most optimistic would have to agree that the traditional Disney was no longer the standard. To turn what once was an imaginative and fun full-scale dark ride into a cheesy, almost carnival quality bore fest spoke volumes about what we had to look forward to in terms of new Disney attractions. Tied for first place along with Superstar Limo at California Adventure, this ride takes the prize as the worst Disney dark ride every produced. Then came Sounds Dangerous (no comment needed). So where are all these great attractions you guys keep talking about? You say the standards haven’t been slipping – dramatically?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

R&RC is a fun coaster until you get past the second inversion. After that it’s all downhill (no pun intended) from there. As far as being much more than a coaster I’d have to say the scenic drops are cheesy and cheap. Par for the course lately unfortunately.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

2000- 2002: The Magic Carpets of Aladdin; "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire-Play It!"; "Walt Disney: One Man's Dream"; Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama! TriceraTop Spin; Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama! Primeval Whirl. Moving on we come to Magic Carpets and TriceraTop Spin. These are simply Zamperela spin rides dressed up with a bit of themeing and are not worth mentioning either. Dino_Rama is of course another example of themeing to something that is supposed to be cheap so that you can actually fabricate it cheap as well. They did a great job at “cheap” and I’m sure most guests get it. One Man’s Dream and Millionaire are both okay but certainly nothing to write home about. Again, if it’s not awful it just barely makes the “C” grade. Not what I would call maintaining the legacy from such attractions as Mansion and Pirates.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

After this the dates don’t really matter. We were treated to a series of average or below average attractions, one after the other. Mission Space is another Warehouse holding a nice technology but no story and a very cold atmosphere. Soarin’ is another simulator with a bad quality film replete with drop outs, scratches and other annoying imperfections. The story and queue are absolutely pointless. Nemo ride is absolutely awful! More video screens and reflections with low-grade scenery (especially the jellyfish) and museum quality, at best, vignettes. Philarmagic offers us nothing new in terms of 4D theater effects or show components and is basically a rehashing of Disney animation scenes we have all seen a million times before. They couldn’t even be bothered to make all three screens polarized. Then there’s Three Cabs, Lights-Motors-Boredom, blah blah blah. After a while they all become the same. All of the things Disney used to be known for have been brought down several notches in quality steadily since 1994.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Compare the list above to such classics as Splash Mountain, Horizons, Motion, American Adventure, ToT, Mansion, Pirates. These all demonstrate what a Disney attraction should be made of. Attention to detail, good story, quality scenic, innovation etc. When people say this is subjective I have to disagree. There is no argument that the pre-1995 attractions were better made, better conceived and contained more detail and quality in every element than the garbage we have been subjected to the past 15 years. As one example, how many show elements are there in Tough to Be A Bug compared to Philarmagic? In terms of quantity and innovation Bug far exceeds the other even though it was introduced almost 8 years before. This is not opinion it’s fact. Everest contains 2 or 3 (pushing it) show effects. Compare that to Big Thunder. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

So keep enjoying your watered down, lower quality product that you pay more than double what you used to pay. But at least have the decency to not empower the current management in their war against Disney quality by not praising their recent projects. Maybe even complain so that we can all enjoy what Disney, with its resources, can deliver in the future.[/FONT]

 

[SirGoofy]

Whylightbulb, it isn't worth it with that guy. He's on a pixie dust overdose.

Great post all around though. It really illustrates how new attractions have really dropped in creativity.

 

[alecshawn]

[FONT=&quot] I 110% disagree with you. There are quantifiable markers that show how Disney’s standards have been dropping since 1994. I thought it might be fun to do an attraction by attraction analysis of almost everything that has been introduced for the last 15 years. As you read this try to compare these offerings with the likes of Mansion, TOT and so on. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1995: New Tomorrowland including Alien Encounter. Here we saw the beginnings of the reduction in expectations and quality. While not a horrible attraction, it certainly didn’t live up to the hype by any stretch of the imagination. I was at WDI at the time and remember the original scope and mock ups. Because management didn’t know or understand where they wanted to go with this, WDI was left trying to interpret their vague instructions. Basically we ended up with a watered down show and a mediocre script. Then a new team was commissioned to fix the blunders mostly caused by management. Unfortunately they were not given the resources to do a proper job so we ended up with something a bit worse. So with lack of clear vision and leadership the Magic Kingdom was left with a status quo attraction.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1996: Mickey's Toontown Fair; Universe of Energy with Ellen. Toontown fair was supposed to be another one of those so-called temporary attractions. 13 years later, even after the far superior Anaheim and Tokyo versions as well as some cheap upgrades to ours, we still have close to the same temporary venues. With respect to Universe of Energy, while perhaps a slightly more entertaining show than the original, there is still nothing here to get excited about. Another in a long line to come of average upgrades and new attractions.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1998: Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin; "The Enchanted Tiki Room - Under New Management"; Animal Kingdom attractions: The Boneyard; Countdown to Extinction; Cretaceous Trail; Kilimanjaro Safaris; Gorilla Falls Exploration Trail; Wildlife Express; Conservation Station; "It's Tough to be a Bug". This was a big year for WDW. We saw two of the only attractions that deserve to be under the Disney name in the last 15 years in my opinion. We also saw several examples of Disney’s worst with Buzz Lightyear and the new Tiki Room. Management’s decision to make the Tiki Room hip and up to date takes us out of the romanticized version of Arabia and the remote jungles of foreign lands directly into a nightclub. This has got to be one of the worst scripts and concepts in Disney history. Buzz is a very cheap, dusty UV Sintra cutout, interactive targeting attraction. Sally Corporation and Halloween Productions use a much more advanced and user-friendly gun. Buzz’s guns are frustrating and falling apart. How is it that Disney can spend over $8 million for a piece of junk while Halloween Productions can install a similar ride in terms of scenic construction, interactivity and lighting, only with better quality, for under $3 million? Are you still willing to say most of WDW’s product has been up to par in the last 15 years?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]On the plus side, Tough to Be A Bug is, in my opinion, the best 4D attraction anywhere. With multiple show innovations introduced, detailed and elaborate set, top-notch animatronic and funny storyline this show is a winner. This is a perfect example of what can be done with a decent budget and good management. In fact, the special effects department actually came in a million under budget and the money was utilized for the Hopper AA. Kilimanjaro is also a great attraction that delivers what is promised. The rest of Animal Kingdom was okay but nothing that couldn’t be experienced at a nice zoo. Countdown to Extinction is a terrible copy of Temple of the Forbidden Eye minus the scenery, effects, good story, scale and entertainment value of Indy. Other than that it’s a bunch of dark rooms with a sophomoric script and a few decent dino figures. By this time we were starting to see the trend we would have to accept from most of Disney’s new attractions. So far, 2 attractions out of about 10 make the grade.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1999: Test Track; Rock 'n' Roller Coaster Starring Aerosmith; The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh; Millennium Village, Leave a Legacy, Imagination! presented by Kodak; "Sounds Dangerous Starring Drew Carey"; "Bear in the Big Blue House". Test Track to me was one of the biggest disappointments yet. Great ride technology with absolutely no show! Dramatically reduced in scope with a huge loop cut for the finale as well as several key show components. This was one of the first cheap warehouse-type sets that we would begin seeing in many of the new offerings. The attitude here was “it will be good enough because there is a thrill element”. Winnie the Pooh was a complete disappointment after seeing what Tokyo decided to buy. Toad was better than that piece of $%#$^#. With the exception of the flood scene, this ride with its extra black space and exposed mechs is a dud. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I think most would agree that Imagination deserves its own paragraph. By this point even the most optimistic would have to agree that the traditional Disney was no longer the standard. To turn what once was an imaginative and fun full-scale dark ride into a cheesy, almost carnival quality bore fest spoke volumes about what we had to look forward to in terms of new Disney attractions. Tied for first place along with Superstar Limo at California Adventure, this ride takes the prize as the worst Disney dark ride every produced. Then came Sounds Dangerous (no comment needed). So where are all these great attractions you guys keep talking about? You say the standards haven’t been slipping – dramatically?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]R&RC is a fun coaster until you get past the second inversion. After that it’s all downhill (no pun intended) from there. As far as being much more than a coaster I’d have to say the scenic drops are cheesy and cheap. Par for the course lately unfortunately.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2000- 2002: The Magic Carpets of Aladdin; "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire-Play It!"; "Walt Disney: One Man's Dream"; Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama! TriceraTop Spin; Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama! Primeval Whirl. Moving on we come to Magic Carpets and TriceraTop Spin. These are simply Zamperela spin rides dressed up with a bit of themeing and are not worth mentioning either. Dino_Rama is of course another example of themeing to something that is supposed to be cheap so that you can actually fabricate it cheap as well. They did a great job at “cheap” and I’m sure most guests get it. One Man’s Dream and Millionaire are both okay but certainly nothing to write home about. Again, if it’s not awful it just barely makes the “C” grade. Not what I would call maintaining the legacy from such attractions as Mansion and Pirates.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]After this the dates don’t really matter. We were treated to a series of average or below average attractions, one after the other. Mission Space is another Warehouse holding a nice technology but no story and a very cold atmosphere. Soarin’ is another simulator with a bad quality film replete with drop outs, scratches and other annoying imperfections. The story and queue are absolutely pointless. Nemo ride is absolutely awful! More video screens and reflections with low-grade scenery (especially the jellyfish) and museum quality, at best, vignettes. Philarmagic offers us nothing new in terms of 4D theater effects or show components and is basically a rehashing of Disney animation scenes we have all seen a million times before. They couldn’t even be bothered to make all three screens polarized. Then there’s Three Cabs, Lights-Motors-Boredom, blah blah blah. After a while they all become the same. All of the things Disney used to be known for have been brought down several notches in quality steadily since 1994.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Compare the list above to such classics as Splash Mountain, Horizons, Motion, American Adventure, ToT, Mansion, Pirates. These all demonstrate what a Disney attraction should be made of. Attention to detail, good story, quality scenic, innovation etc. When people say this is subjective I have to disagree. There is no argument that the pre-1995 attractions were better made, better conceived and contained more detail and quality in every element than the garbage we have been subjected to the past 15 years. As one example, how many show elements are there in Tough to Be A Bug compared to Philarmagic? In terms of quantity and innovation Bug far exceeds the other even though it was introduced almost 8 years before. This is not opinion it’s fact. Everest contains 2 or 3 (pushing it) show effects. Compare that to Big Thunder. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So keep enjoying your watered down, lower quality product that you pay more than double what you used to pay. But at least have the decency to not empower the current management in their war against Disney quality by not praising their recent projects. Maybe even complain so that we can all enjoy what Disney, with its resources, can deliver in the future.[/FONT]

I think you might consider that alot of folks LIKE the above mentioned.
This is ALL in the eye of the beholder as i already stated.
You like, i dislike, you dislike, i like.
Got it?
Its my belief that WDW and D.L. is better now than before.
Isnt that a shame? I actually think its BETTER. Oh, the horror of it.
Besides, i really like Universe of Energy. Now as much as before.
There seems to be a trend that if folks like you dont like something about Disney, then it is gospel. Well, its not. Your opinion hold NO more water than mine. I and others consider WDW a better place now than in the past. Get over it.
P.S. , i consider E.E. to be an incredible ride. And, all the refurbs going on....Disney is doing GREAT, by me!

 

[SirGoofy]

There seems to be a trend that id folks like you dont like something about Disney, then it is gospel. Well, its not. I and others consider WDW a better place now than in the past. Get over it.

Ummm, the guy you just quoted was a freaking Imagineer. If anything, his posts are much closer to gospel than any of mine or yours

P.S. , i consider E.E. to be an incredible ride. And, all the refurbs going on....Disney is doing GREAT, by me!

EE would be incredible if it worked. But I guess even a ride with 75% of its effects not working is great at Disney right?

And WHAT refurbs!? Other than Space mountain nothing is being refurbed that desperately needs it.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

So if they didn't have 140 Vice Presidents......

Disneyland had it's management system changed to put people who care about the place in good spots and others apparently scrambling to understand old Disney park lingo so they could keep thiers. It's all humorously told on Micechat where reports of some VPs trying really hard to enjoy the new street party and be seen with guests can be found.

140 is crazy. I can't think up enough positions to go with that number. There's one for each park I know, but even given WDW's vast categories of operations, it's difficult to come up with the other 136.

They get (or got) free cars from GM though.

 

[alecshawn]

Whylightbulb, it isn't worth it with that guy. He's on a pixie dust overdose.

Great post all around though. It really illustrates how new attractions have really dropped in creativity.

Can you say...negativity overdose.
Again, one disagrees with me, so im "not worth it"
Grow up.

 

[alecshawn]

Ummm, the guy you just quoted was a freaking Imagineer. If anything, his posts are much closer to gospel than any of mine or yours



EE would be incredible if it worked. But I guess even a ride with 75% of its effects not working is great at Disney right?

And WHAT refurbs!? Other than Space mountain nothing is being refurbed that desperately needs it.

Refurbs.....? The past few years..
1. HM
2. SM (soon) D.L. space (love it)
3. Pirates
4. SSE (i love it now)
5. Uof Energy
6. Matterhorn (D.L.)
And more that i know im forgetting...
and as for the "imagineer" i dont care who he is or WAS, you keep missing the point.
The point is: People like WDW more now than in the past, people consider it a better place. Some dont.
We all have opinions and it is ALL in the eye of the beholder.
As for EE, i hardly notice any effects not working, im not THAT , that if something isnt 100% perfectly working that i cant enjoy it.
Soarin is another addition that is a home run. Mission: Space also.
I consider WDW to be a high quality park and entire property, Always has been, always will be....you may not. Different strokes for different folks. Our family loves it.
I remember when i was 21. I was serving in the Gulf War. I didnt try to convince people i was a military expert, I did my job and got home safe. Proud to do it too.
I dont consider you a WDW expert in the least bit. You work there part time, ok, good for you. Thats neat. But really, come on.

 

[SirGoofy]

Can you say...negativity overdose.
Again, one disagrees with me, so im "not worth it"
Grow up.

NO, you're not worth it because you say everything is great, and there is absolutely nothing wrong. We've been over this, I love WDW. But to say there is absolutely nothing wrong is pulling the wool over your eyes.

I have plenty of good things to say. See my response to your other post

Refurbs.....? The past few years..
1. HM
2. SM (soon) D.L. space (love it)
3. Pirates
4. SSE (i love it now)
5. Uof Energy
6. Matterhorn (D.L.)
And more that i know im forgetting...
and as for the "imagineer" i dont care who he is, you keep missing the point.
The point is: People like WDW more now than in the past, people consider it a better place.
We all have opinions and it is ALL in the eye of the beholder.

1)I'll give you this one. In all honesty HM was the best thing they've done since ToT. They took a classic and made it better, rather than taking a classic and ruining it like Tiki Room and Imagination. And if you can defend

2)Space Mountain. A refurb 6 years too late, and half as big as it should be. But I guess it's good enough since it's happening, right? I'm not counting DL in this argument. DL gets all the love it needs, because it has majority repeat visitors. Visitors who can and do realize when rides are in poor shape.

WDW can get away with their lax touch ups because they don't have majority repeat visitors.

3)Pirates received a great cosmetic makeover, but the ride is in terrible shape and breaks down almost once a day. That sounds like a really great refurb doesn't it?

4)SSE's very soul was ripped out. Gone is the inspiring ride about where we can go in the future, and instead we're left with a flash cartoon mixed with "Face in the Hole."

5)UoE...ummm...are you talking about the change to Ellen's Energy Adventure? Because that happened almost 13 years ago.:shrug:

 

[SirGoofy]

I dont consider you a WDW expert in the least bit. You work there part time, ok, good for you. Thats neat. But really, come on.

:lol:

I'm not claiming to be an expert on the entire operation, but I sure know a lot about the inner workings of the Magic Kingdom and Epcot. I was there every day for 5 months. I know what goes on. I know what needs to be fixed, and what doesn't.

And to your EE post. I still enjoy the ride. But I can't come close to the enjoyment I had when I rode it when it was working 100%. Imaging riding HM and the entire Graveyard scene was 101. Would you still enjoy it just as much as if it was working? Because that's the equivalent of the yeti not working.

 

[whylightbulb]

Whylightbulb, it isn't worth it with that guy. He's on a pixie dust overdose.

Great post all around though. It really illustrates how new attractions have really dropped in creativity.

I tried to be as thorough with one post as possible. Of course there are many posts that deal with each individual attraction in more detail.

I still have yet to understand why so many cling to mediocrity as if it were there last breath. Why not hold Disney, and other companies for that matter, to higher standards? Why not do that so they, as well as us, can enjoy the product even more as a result?

 

[whylightbulb]

I think you might consider that alot of folks LIKE the above mentioned.
This is ALL in the eye of the beholder as i already stated.
You like, i dislike, you dislike, i like.
Got it?
Its my belief that WDW and D.L. is better now than before.
Isnt that a shame? I actually think its BETTER. Oh, the horror of it.
Besides, i really like Universe of Energy. Now as much as before.
There seems to be a trend that if folks like you dont like something about Disney, then it is gospel. Well, its not. Your opinion hold NO more water than mine. I and others consider WDW a better place now than in the past. Get over it.
P.S. , i consider E.E. to be an incredible ride. And, all the refurbs going on....Disney is doing GREAT, by me!

Okay let's deal with one subject at a time. The matter of sheer quantity of show elements is a great place to start. Would you agree that Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Tower of Terror, Horizons, World of Motion, and Great Movie Ride individually all have more show elements than Everest, Test Track, Mission Space, Nemo, and Soarin' individually? Another words, comparing apples to apples for similar type attractions from pre-94 to post-94, Big Thunder has more than Everest, Horizons has more than Nemo, even Star Tours has more than Soarin'.

There is no argument. It's a fact that if you were to look at itemized show elements and expenditures for show, every attraction pre-1994 is bigger in terms of quantity than post-94. Will you admit this?

 

[WDW1974]

Why would an independent company that provides estimates inflate the numbers? If you can just pick and choose what facts to believe and what not to (from reputable sources) then how can someone ever converse?

I don't know what agendas are at play. I do know I can count on one hand the type of crowded like TDL was last Tuesday -- and is on a regular basis -- days at MK. And I think even you would acknowledge I spend a great deal of time at WDW and Disney parks in general.

I just don't believe it is possible for MK to outdraw TDL and DL annually without some funny counting going on. And with park-hopping, hard-ticket events and more CM comps than anywhere ... well, it would seem the possibility for playing with numbers exists.

Do you (or anyone else) regularly see waits of 2-3-4 hours for multiple attractions at the MK at the same time? ... Again, excepting a few NYEs, Christmases, Easters ... I never have.

With regard to the other point, I'll be the first to admit that I am not a sociology expert and this only comes from what I have read and observed. Japanese are not American. They expect different things and react differently, not in a bad way at all. That's why I said that I agree mostly with WDW1974 on this point. However, I think that the fact that TDR is geared towards the Japanese culture plays a great deal more in the argument than just TDR > WDW.

I am going to need more explanation because I don't understand where you are going with your point and how it affects the subject at hand.

I'd also tell you that out of all the Disney international resorts that TDR was built more towards recreating an American feeling. Hell, when TDL opened, and for many years thereafter, there was only a single locale that served Japanese food because OLC felt locals wanted the same types of food found at DL and WDW.

For a park that attracts less than five percent of its visitors from English-speaking nations, TDL signage and often attraction soundtracks are done with English as a strong second to Japanese.

Yeah that would be interesting to me too. I can see your point though. If you have no interest in an aerial view of property and have hot air balloons at your fair (we don't), then the attraction will hold no interest. I don't like Test Track because my A/C was broken when I worked at Disney the summer it opened and "Test Track" was basically how I got to work every day.

Was your auto a GM too?

~What Will YOU Celebrate? Mom loves me best!~

 

[PhotoDave219]

I tried to be as thorough with one post as possible. Of course there are many posts that deal with each individual attraction in more detail.

I still have yet to understand why so many cling to mediocrity as if it were there last breath. Why not hold Disney, and other companies for that matter, to higher standards? Why not do that so they, as well as us, can enjoy the product even more as a result?

You'll have to deal with it. In the past 4 years or so that I've been around these forums, there are hundreds if not thousands of posts basically stating the same thing that you're saying.

As long as management at TWDC sees WDW as the main revenue stream for the company, things aren't going to change.

Rehashing the same ol' doggie-stuff about how the company is cutting quality, effects, preshow, yadda-yadda-yadda, is old hat. Instead, do something about it. Work on convincing major investors and Wall Street that they would get a larger return on their investment through a cost-benefit analysis (assuming they don't laugh at you.) Write letters to Roy Disney and John Lassiter. Prove your point and try and get the company to change.

Don't just complain to a Disney fan board about the same complaints that most of us have about the company. Do something about it.