Magic Kingdom set to break attendance records next week? 7am to 3am operating hours!

[WDW1974]

As I've also stated, you are a nameless face behind a keyboard and do not have any sort of credentials other than your word for me to rely on.

Here we go again ... sounds like a radio station with the same playlist all the time.

You are ignoring reputable sources and relying on conjecture to make your point.

I am not ignoring anything. And what constitues a 'reputable' source in this case is certainly open to interpretation.

Some folks do feel FOX News or CNBC are 'reputable' but most times I find them to be laughable.

I'm glad that you have such a high esteem of your own statistically ability that you can declare a company that specializes in that field's numbers false based on some park visits and a few pictures.

I didn't say they were false. I don't know whether they are true or not or even close.

You still ignore my point about MK crowds. Have you seen crowds like those shown at TDL last week at MK, let alone on a regular basis? Have you say been there when Space Mountain had a three hour wait, Splash Mountain was at say two and a half hours, Mansion was at two hours, Pooh was two hours, BTMRR was 90 minutes, Pirates was at 60-70? Because that would just begin to approach what those pics/trip report show ... and that may not be the norm, but is a lot closer than the opposite.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? DL in May!~

 

[jakeman]

Here we go again ... sounds like a radio station with the same playlist all the time.

You seem to be requesting the same song. I said my peace in another thread, but if you want to keep rehashing it, then please keep bringing it up.

I am not ignoring anything. And what constitues a 'reputable' source in this case is certainly open to interpretation.

Some folks do feel FOX News or CNBC are 'reputable' but most times I find them to be laughable.

This is pretty much the anatomy of your post. Point, counter-point, deflect with either political or news media opinion, move on.

I didn't say they were false. I don't know whether they are true or not or even close.

You still ignore my point about MK crowds. Have you seen crowds like those shown at TDL last week at MK, let alone on a regular basis? Have you say been there when Space Mountain had a three hour wait, Splash Mountain was at say two and a half hours, Mansion was at two hours, Pooh was two hours, BTMRR was 90 minutes, Pirates was at 60-70? Because that would just begin to approach what those pics/trip report show ... and that may not be the norm, but is a lot closer than the opposite.

I'm ignoring your post because neither you nor I have the information to come to any sort of conclusion and I am not going to get into a peeing contest over who has more park time to make attendance estimations.

It doesn't matter what I observe because I'm not there all the time, same for you, so I'm not going to comment. I know the limitations of my knowledge and I'm not going to overstep them.

 

[jt04]

What an intelligent, rational explanation.

You solved that mystery. So many people they all have to go to TDR or else they'd fall into the sea.

~JT: The Perfect WDW Guest of the 21st Century!~

One of my favorite things about the whinning about WDW is that Disney just laughs it off and continues with their plan. Anonymous "armchair VP" wannabes are not worth real managements time of day.

So I read lightbulbs essay and found he mentions nothing about what is happening with TWDC and WDI since Iger took over. All of his complaints are Eisner legacy.

I look at the photos of what is happening at DCA and it gets more amazing by the day. Now some will say that Iger was responsible for many of DCA's original problems but of course that is not true, at least not in a significant way.

As I've said, WDW will have it's day. Eisner's messes are being cleaned up day by day in a very deliberate and strategic way with little or no fanfare or hoopla (sorry couldn't resist ). And a bunch of anonymous carping on a Disney fansite will neither speed up the process nor slow it down. Only the economy can do that.

I've been going to WDW since before you were born and there is absolutely no doubt it is more amazing than ever. It is less magical in a sense, a victim of it's own success, but the absolute scope and variety make up for, and in many cases supercede that issue. :sohappy:


What WDW needs is a nice IMAX theater. :lookaroun Done. :king:

 

[SirGoofy]

I've been going to WDW since before you were born and there is absolutely no doubt it is more amazing than ever.

Yea, there is doubt, jt. I listen to longtime guests tell me all the time. So don't act like only crazy fanboys think things have gone downhill.

But of course, I'm only a lowly CM. What do I know?

 

[WDW1974]

You seem to be requesting the same song. I said my peace in another thread, but if you want to keep rehashing it, then please keep bringing it up.

Do you have a nice singing voice?

This is pretty much the anatomy of your post. Point, counter-point, deflect with either political or news media opinion, move on.

My point was stated very clearly. You can't believe everything you read or hear in the media. Journalism isn't what it once was in this country. Not even close with all the layoffs and consolidating. An amusement park industry publication may or may not be presenting the most accurate numbers.

Again, Disney does not release them so why would you jump to the conclusion they must be 100% accurate?

I'm ignoring your post because neither you nor I have the information to come to any sort of conclusion and I am not going to get into a peeing contest over who has more park time to make attendance estimations.

It doesn't matter what I observe because I'm not there all the time, same for you, so I'm not going to comment. I know the limitations of my knowledge and I'm not going to overstep them.

I love peeing contests. But that wasn't my intent. I'm just trying to find out if anyone else has experienced waits like those in Tokyo. Judging by your deflection, I'm going to guess if someone has that someone ain't you.

Again, anyone out there ... at all ... 2-3-4 hour waits at NUMEROUS attractions on the same day (and let's even include the holidays to make this more fun!)

~What Will YOU Celebrate? A healthy prostate!~

 

[Hrudey3032]

That's just the problem, and it isn't one limited to fans. As I know from people on the inside who have tried, it is very tough (if not impossible) to quantify quality into a numerical figure in a Power Point.

Quality is something you can't put a number on. And with number-crunchers now pushing the direction of P&R that is a huge hill to climb.



Agreed. But I find it more than coincidental that as Disney's own standards and quality started to slip that there was a pronounced increase in ... well, trashy guests.

If you treat your product like Walmart then don't be surprised when WalMart shoppers show up.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? Spring Break on FL Beach!~

As someone who worked for Walmart for 10 years I get real tired of your ripping on them.Seriously dude your rant gets tiresome.Walmart shoppers invading WDW??Who shops at Walmart? Normal everyday people. I would see athletes(Colts and Pacers mostly in my city),TV Newscasters, radio personalities,execs, and most of all hard working citizens. These are the same people I see when I go to WDW.So we may not be the people staying at all the resorts but so what?I still pay the full prices to get in,eat and shop there.So because I worked for them does that make me any less of a person? I shop there yet because I do that means I am bad for WDW???

 

[whylightbulb]

You'll have to deal with it. In the past 4 years or so that I've been around these forums, there are hundreds if not thousands of posts basically stating the same thing that you're saying.

As long as management at TWDC sees WDW as the main revenue stream for the company, things aren't going to change.

Rehashing the same ol' doggie-stuff about how the company is cutting quality, effects, preshow, yadda-yadda-yadda, is old hat. Instead, do something about it. Work on convincing major investors and Wall Street that they would get a larger return on their investment through a cost-benefit analysis (assuming they don't laugh at you.) Write letters to Roy Disney and John Lassiter. Prove your point and try and get the company to change.

Don't just complain to a Disney fan board about the same complaints that most of us have about the company. Do something about it.

Well I do try to provide a unique perspective considering my background and current line of work. While many may be able to point out discrepancies based on observation as guests or cast members, I can include inside analysis from personal experience at WDI as well as other themed entertainment design/build firms. Not to say there aren't other WDI veterans here, but I haven't seen any willing to take the time to outline their thoughts as I have. part of that may be they don't have the time or perhaps they are still there and are afraid to speak out. I happen to be fortunate enough to own a design firm and am currently in a slow period in our projects development cycle. This board has a huge readership from the stats and hopefully some will be reached.

My observations come from not only Disney, but also Universal and other parks as well. One way I hope to reach management is by building similar quality or better attractions for other parks, with less than 10% of a Disney budget. I have already come pretty close to this and am currently working on another dark ride overseas that will break new ground in several areas but has a less than $3 million budget. Oh to go back to the glory days at Disney!

 

[TURKEY]

As someone who worked for Walmart for 10 years I get real tired of your ripping on them.Seriously dude your rant gets tiresome.Walmart shoppers invading WDW??Who shops at Walmart? Normal everyday people. I would see athletes(Colts and Pacers mostly in my city),TV Newscasters, radio personalities,execs, and most of all hard working citizens. These are the same people I see when I go to WDW.So we may not be the people staying at all the resorts but so what?I still pay the full prices to get in,eat and shop there.So because I worked for them does that make me any less of a person? I shop there yet because I do that means I am bad for WDW???

For the most part, 74 doesn't attack the people shopping at Wal-Mart.

He's attacking/commenting on the fact that Disney is becoming like a big box store (Home Depot, Lowe's, Wal-Mart, Target, etc) targeting everyone for anything they need. In most cases, it's common stuff in one location that has ruined the specialty shops of years gone past whether it be hardware stores, grocery stores, furniture stores, or Disney merchandise, attractions, or food and beverage locations.


You get the same junk everywhere. Nothing is special or unique anymore.



~Celebrating 74 checking his PMs~

 

[WDW1974]

One of my favorite things about the whinning about WDW is that Disney just laughs it off and continues with their plan. Anonymous "armchair VP" wannabes are not worth real managements time of day.

If you knew anything about most 'real' TDO management then you'd know that no one (be they guests, cast or imagineers) are worth their time of day.

That's a huge part of the problem.

So I read lightbulbs essay and found he mentions nothing about what is happening with TWDC and WDI since Iger took over. All of his complaints are Eisner legacy.

Guess what, JT? Iger IS Eisner's legacy. He was the No. 2 exec and he was handpicked by Michael for the job. Do you think Iger did nothing and had no input to what went on in P&R once he took the No. 2 spot?

I look at the photos of what is happening at DCA and it gets more amazing by the day. Now some will say that Iger was responsible for many of DCA's original problems but of course that is not true, at least not in a significant way.

That's true to a certain extent. Of course, Iger IS responsible for many of WDW's problems that exist now and have for years.

I've been going to WDW since before you were born and there is absolutely no doubt it is more amazing than ever. It is less magical in a sense, a victim of it's own success, but the absolute scope and variety make up for, and in many cases supercede that issue.

Been going to WDW since before I was born, eh? Yeah ... that comment sure adds to your street cred.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? Magical Sprawl!~

 

[jakeman]

My point was stated very clearly. You can't believe everything you read or hear in the media. Journalism isn't what it once was in this country. Not even close with all the layoffs and consolidating. An amusement park industry publication may or may not be presenting the most accurate numbers.

Again, Disney does not release them so why would you jump to the conclusion they must be 100% accurate?

I'm not. I am jumping to the conclusion that they are more accurate than your scattered observations.

I love peeing contests. But that wasn't my intent. I'm just trying to find out if anyone else has experienced waits like those in Tokyo. Judging by your deflection, I'm going to guess if someone has that someone ain't you.

Again, anyone out there ... at all ... 2-3-4 hour waits at NUMEROUS attractions on the same day (and let's even include the holidays to make this more fun!)

It is not relevant, because one busy day anywhere is not a representative sample. It's not a deflection. I can tell you I've seen it, but what does it matter? Your next question would simply be, "Was it a random Tuesday?"

 

[jt04]

Yea, there is doubt, jt. I listen to longtime guests tell me all the time. So don't act like only crazy fanboys think things have gone downhill.

But of course, I'm only a lowly CM. What do I know?

Again, WDW is dealing with issues from the Eisner era. I won't go into that because it will explode this forum but he left serious problems that really diminished the magic. But the management you and others whine about are getting a handle on the situation. It will take time, a lot of money, and a good economy to get it turned around but it will happen. Iger et al will be lauded and wdw74 will get his magic back. In the meantime, WDW has held together and judging by the crowds in a very weak economy, the peeps still love their WDW. Sometimes they love it too much.


What WDW needs is a refurbed Space Mountain. :lookaroun Done. :king:

 

[SirGoofy]

Well I do try to provide a unique perspective considering my background and current line of work. While many may be able to point out discrepancies based on observation as guests or cast members, I can include inside analysis from personal experience at WDI as well as other themed entertainment design/build firms. Not to say there aren't other WDI veterans here, but I haven't seen any willing to take the time to outline their thoughts as I have. part of that may be they don't have the time or perhaps they are still there and are afraid to speak out. I happen to be fortunate enough to own a design firm and am currently in a slow period in our projects development cycle. This board has a huge readership from the stats and hopefully some will be reached.

And I personally thank you for your time. While I feel like I can bring the CM's views along with the guest I personally speak with, I feel like I'm brushed aside because I'm JUST a CM.

My observations come from not only Disney, but also Universal and other parks as well. One way I hope to reach management is by building similar quality or better attractions for other parks, with less than 10% of a Disney budget. I have already come pretty close to this and am currently working on another dark ride overseas that will break new ground in several areas but has a less than $3 million budget. Oh to go back to the glory days at Disney!

Sounds awesome. Hope it turns out well for you.:wave:

 

[alecshawn]

This will be my last reply to this never ending thread, im on duty and its getting late. So, here it goes....
We will be traveling to WDW via the Honda Odyssey in 2011 (may). It takes a couple of days. But, we love the drive.
We will, as always, have a wondetful time. After all, who wouldnt? This is America and we are going to WDW!
Me and my family will enjoy all the classic rides plus the new ones.
My son hasnt rode many of the larger ones due to his age on our last trip.
My daughter, for the FIRST time will gaze at the Castle on Main st. and be in awe. Just like my son did his first time. (and we still do!) We will do TTA and Astro Orbiter (family tradition).
We'll do T.L. and enjoy a day at the resort relaxing(All Star Music) swimming in the pool.
I'll introduce my son to SSE, explain to him what it is all about, the same with many of Epcots attractions.
And, the whole time we are there, i wont be "looking" or complaining about stupid things or comparing to the WDW of old.
Its here and now. Then in a couple of years, we will do it all over again. Older kids, more rides and more memories.
This is what some folks dont seem to get. You are so wrapped up in your silly petty complaints, and "supposed" higher knowledge than WDW suits, that you miss the whole reason for WDW to exist. And that, is to simply have fun. Good family fun.
Adios, This Firefighter is going to bed.

 

[SirGoofy]

Again, WDW is dealing with issues from the Eisner era. I won't go into that because it will explode this forum but he left serious problems that really diminished the magic. But the management you and others whine about are getting a handle on the situation. It will take time, a lot of money, and a good economy to get it turned around but it will happen. Iger et al will be lauded and wdw74 will get his magic back. In the meantime, WDW has held together and judging by the crowds in a very weak economy, the peeps still love their WDW. Sometimes they love it too much.

I don't know if I have the same faith you do, jt. Iger does not have the love for the parks. I've seen him in the parks. He's a great guy, don't get me wrong, but he just doesn't seem to have the passion for this part of the company.

What WDW needs is a overhauled Space Mountain. :lookaroun We'll see. :king:

Fixed.:lol:

 

[Hrudey3032]

This will be my last reply to this never ending thread, im on duty and its getting late. So, here it goes....
We will be traveling to WDW via the Honda Odyssey in 2011 (may). It takes a couple of days. But, we love the drive.
We will, as always, have a wondetful time. After all, who wouldnt? This is America and we are going to WDW!
Me and my family will enjoy all the classic rides plus the new ones.
My son hasnt rode many of the larger ones due to his age on our last trip.
My daughter, for the FIRST time will gaze at the Castle on Main st. and be in awe. Just like my son did his first time. (and we still do!) We will do TTA and Astro Orbiter (family tradition).
We'll do T.L. and enjoy a day at All Star Music swimming in the pool.
I'll introduce my son to SSE, explain to him what it is all about, the same with many of Epcots attractions.
And, the whole time we are there, i wont be "looking" or complaining about stupid things or comparing to the WDW of old.
Its here and now. I will never get these family "times" again. Then in a couple of years, we will do it all over again. Older kids, more rides and more memories.
This is what some folks dont seem to get. You are so wrapped up in your silly petty complaints, and "supposed" higher knowledge than WDW suits, that you miss the whole reason for WDW to exist. And that, is to simply have fun. Good family fun.
Adios, This Firefighter is going to bed.

Did you used to go by the nickname "The Fireman" on here before?? :lookaroun

 

[SirGoofy]

Did you used to go by the nickname "The Fireman" on here before?? :lookaroun

You're the second person to ask him that.:lol:

 

[whylightbulb]

Your post was very thorough and articulate. You explained very quantifiable reasons why the product WDW has been pushing since the mid-90s is far less magical, much more ordinary, cheap and WalMart.

But if you're looking for lots of 'atta boy whylightbulb ... you 'splained why those beancounting weasel execs are destroying the Disney legacy' well ... how do I put it? ... You're on the wrong Disney fan site. LaughingPlace is better at being critcal (even with one of its owners being a major consultant/employee of TWDC) as is Micechat.

Even with many intelligent posters here, there is a strong undercurrent that Disney can do no wrong in Orlando (or in general). You're opting to do battle with someone whose only responses are simple opinions that he finds WDW as magical as ever, which is fine for him. But it's also a waste of your time.

As to why hold Disney to higher standards, or even the novel idea of its own lofty ones, that's gonna be a tough sell.

You know what it's like on the inside of WDI and you know what Disney is capable of and continues to do at its other resorts as well as what other companies are capable of.

That doesn't mesh well with people who simply love WDW and don't want to hear anything contrary. WDW is viewed by some people like religion or politics (don't worry, just a statement... relax!) and that means things like reason, common sense and opposing views are taken like heresay.

I will continue to hold Disney to the standards of excellence it conditioned me to expect in two decades of visiting its parks (1974-1994) before I started noticing 'slippage' during the never-ending, little substance 25th Anniversary Marketing Event. If it pi$$es off people here, then I'm OK with that.

~It's not my standards, it's Disney's!~

Well I don't know if I'm looking for the "atta boy" so much as for some to come to their senses. I do realize that it's a much bigger problem nationwide (the inability of most Americans to differentiate good quality from bad) but it has reared its ugly head here and I enjoy at least trying to push it back. This mentality affects me as well as my business so I obviously have a selfish motive here. I want to be able to build more quality attractions with the mega-budgets again and I also want to be able to visit new quality attractions. Yea I could decide to ignore WDW and just focus on Disneyland where they are doing this but I'm closer to WDW and it holds a special place for me.

 

[jt04]

If you knew anything about most 'real' TDO management then you'd know that no one (be they guests, cast or imagineers) are worth their time of day.

That's a huge part of the problem.



Guess what, JT? Iger IS Eisner's legacy. He was the No. 2 exec and he was handpicked by Michael for the job. Do you think Iger did nothing and had no input to what went on in P&R once he took the No. 2 spot?



That's true to a certain extent. Of course, Iger IS responsible for many of WDW's problems that exist now and have for years.




Been going to WDW since before I was born, eh? Yeah ... that comment sure adds to your street cred.

~What Will YOU Celebrate? Magical Sprawl!~

When you say Iger is Eisners legacy it makes me know that you do not understand the situation as you would have people here believe. You can't have a good understanding of who Iger is and believe he is Eisner's legacy. For all your words, that alone disqualifies you as an expert. Not that I ever thought you were by the way.

And you are always reminding people how you have been going to WDW since 74 and how long you have had your AP so I just thought turnabout was fair play. What was I thinking? :ROFLOL:

 

[Hrudey3032]

You're the second person to ask him that.:lol:

He has the MO and same state and job as that guy. I am surprised more haven't thought about the similarities. :lol:

 

[whylightbulb]

There's a difference between a 20-year-old kid about the Yeti being dead on EE, to an ex-Imagineer and industry insider explaining the different mindset of building attractions now vs. 15-20 years ago.

And for every one thoughtful post like 'bulb posted there's likely 30 of simple blather about why WDW is more magical than ever.

Thanks man. I couldn't have said it better myself. Same back at you by the way regarding your thoughtful posts. I know you must be an insider but I'm not sure in what way.