Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[LittleBuford]

Are the Dwarfs in the original Snow White meant to be actual humans with dwarfism who work in mines? Or are they... something else?

I’ve always thought of them as the mythical creature dwarves, not people with dwarfism dwarves.

In the 1937 film, they’re referred to as “little men” by Snow White and the Evil Queen. To my eyes, they are depicted as caricatures of human beings with dwarfism, not as supernatural beings.

 

[Screamface]

They're so creepy looking.

 

[Nunu]

I’ve always thought of them as the mythical creature dwarves, not people with dwarfism dwarves.

We think alike in this regard. They are gnomes to me, not people with dwarfism.

 

[LittleBuford]

This discussion always puzzles me. If everyone views the dwarfs as supernatural beings who have nothing to do with people with dwarfism, why would Dinklage have said what he said, and why would those opposed to his views (including in this thread) have criticised Disney for denying work to actors with dwarfism?

 

[_caleb]

In the 1937 film, they’re referred to as “little men” by Snow White and the Evil Queen. To my eyes, they are depicted as caricatures of human beings with dwarfism, not as supernatural beings.

Huh. I can honestly say it never occurred to me that they were ever intended to be humans with dwarfism!

But I also don’t think I’ve ever thought they were magical in any way…

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This discussion always puzzles me. If everyone views the dwarfs as supernatural beings who have nothing to do with people with dwarfism, why would Dinklage have said what he said, and why would those opposed to his views (including in this thread) have criticised Disney for denying work to actors with dwarfism?

Clearly he sees them as little people dwarfs, that doesn’t mean we do though.

As far as the jobs I just assumed they‘d employ little people to play them because they are the right size, I expected prosthetics so they’d look like the movie dwarves though.

 

[LittleBuford]

Huh. I can honestly say it never occurred to me that they were ever intended to be humans with dwarfism!

But I also don’t think I’ve ever thought they were magical in any way…

The word “dwarf”, together with its equivalents in other Germanic languages, has been used for centuries to refer both to little people and to the mythical beings. Regrettably for people with dwarfism, this has led to an inevitable conflation of the two definitions in popular culture.

 

[LittleBuford]

Clearly he sees them as little people dwarfs

So did Snow White and her stepmother, it seems!

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I’ve met quite a few little people over the years and none of them looked anything like the characters in Snow White, Norse dwarfs, the Lord of the Rings dwarfs, video game dwarfs, etc all share similar traits with them though, bulbous noses, big cheeks, and beards are almost universal with mythical dwarfs, they are usually carrying an axe or a hammer also, I guess that’s why I’ve always associated them with mythical dwarfs, that’s what they look like.

 

[LittleBuford]

I’ve met quite a few little people over the years and none of them looked anything like the characters in Snow White, Norse dwarfs, the Lord of the Rings dwarfs, video game dwarfs, etc all share similar traits with them though, bulbous noses, big cheeks, and beards are almost universal with mythical dwarfs, they are usually carrying an axe or a hammer also, I guess that’s why I’ve always associated them with mythical dwarfs, that’s what they look like.

To be clear, I’m not saying the Seven Dwarfs look like real people. They are highly caricatural, which is consistent with Disney’s broader treatment of comical male characters, including, for example, LeFou:

LeFou looks no more real than the dwarfs do, but he’s clearly meant to be understood as a human being within the logic of the film. There’s nothing to suggest that the same isn’t true of the dwarfs, who have no magical powers or superhuman strength, and who are referred to by other characters as “little men”.

 

[Disney Irish]

In the 1937 film, they’re referred to as “little men” by Snow White and the Evil Queen. To my eyes, they are depicted as caricatures of human beings with dwarfism, not as supernatural beings.

You might want to double check that.....

As when the Magic Mirror is telling the Queen Snow is still alive he mentions she is with the Dwarfs, specifically calling them Dwarfs not little men. And right before the Queen changes to the old hag she says she'll go to the Dwarfs cottage herself, again specifically calling them Dwarfs, not little men.

I believe its only Snow that doesn't call them Dwarfs.

 

[LittleBuford]

You might want to double check that.....

As when the Magic Mirror is telling the Queen Snow is still alive he mentions she is with the Dwarfs, specifically calling them Dwarfs not little men. And right before the Queen changes to the old hag she says she'll go to the Dwarfs cottage herself, again specifically calling them Dwarfs, not little men.

I believe its only Snow that doesn't call them Dwarfs.

I wouldn’t have written what I did without checking first.

“The little men will be away, and she'll be alone . . . with a harmless old peddler woman. A harmless old peddler woman!”

 

[Disney Irish]

I wouldn’t have written what I did without checking first.

“The little men will be away, and she'll be alone . . . with a harmless old peddler woman. A harmless old peddler woman!”

Well then you might want to check again, as I just watch it right now on D+. And indeed the Magic Mirror calls them Dwarfs and so does the Queen, both prior and after turning into the old hag.

Here is the transcript, you can read it yourself, Pages 8 and 10 -

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Movie Script

Read, review and discuss the entire Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs movie script by Jacob Grimm on Scripts.com

www.scripts.com

 

[LittleBuford]

Well then you might want to check again, as I just watch it right now on D+. And indeed the Magic Mirror calls them Dwarfs and so does the Queen, both prior and after turning into the old hag.

Here is the transcript, you can read it yourself, Pages 8 and 10 -

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Movie Script

Read, review and discuss the entire Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs movie script by Jacob Grimm on Scripts.com

www.scripts.com

You really think I would have just made up the line I quoted? It’s there in your transcript, along with another instance in which she refers to them as “little men” (“The, the little men are not here?”). Yes, she and the Magic Mirror also refer to them as dwarfs, but I never said they didn’t, and it doesn’t change my point.

Scripts.com

A large collection of movie scripts, screenplays and transcripts - runs by a community of amateur and professional writers.

www.scripts.com

 

[_caleb]

This discussion always puzzles me. If everyone views the dwarfs as supernatural beings who have nothing to do with people with dwarfism, why would Dinklage have said what he said, and why would those opposed to his views (including in this thread) have criticised Disney for denying work to actors with dwarfism?

I don’t know, but whether or not The Dwarfs were intended to be human people with dwarfism, it would make sense to me that advocates for equality, dignity, and sensitivity would want Disney to be cautious in a remake.

The idea of “a bunch of humans with Dwarfism…” seems like the sort of “having fun by making fun of” that was not uncommon in past times, similar to what you might have seen in a sideshow or minstrel show. The exaggerated features could support this interpretation.

The “mythical beings” understanding is strange to me. I grew up on Lord of the Rings and other fantasy adventures, which had beings called “dwarves” who, as @Vegas Disney Fan mentioned, always seemed to be a “race” (ugh) of rugged, bearded people of short stature who worked in mines… which might support this interpretation.

 

[Disney Irish]

You really think I would have just made up the line I quoted? It’s there in your transcript, along with another instance in which she refers to them as “little men” (“The, the little men are not here?”). Yes, she and the Magic Mirror also refer to them as dwarfs, but that doesn’t change my point.

Scripts.com

A large collection of movie scripts, screenplays and transcripts - runs by a community of amateur and professional writers.

www.scripts.com

I'm not saying you made it up, just that you misremembered, specifically from a different line in the movie that is certainly also there in the movie. Which is why I pointed it out, and checked via a watching on D+ and then found a transcript online, before I posted.

As for your point, whether you personally believed them to be human men is fine. Others can see them as male magical creatures. Both can certainly be right from their perspectives as its never specifically clarified in the movie.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t know, but whether or not The Dwarfs were intended to be human people with dwarfism, it would make sense to me that advocates for equality, dignity, and sensitivity would want Disney to be cautious in a remake.

The idea of “a bunch of humans with Dwarfism…” seems like the sort of “having fun by making fun of” that was not uncommon in past times, similar to what you might have seen in a sideshow or minstrel show. The exaggerated features could support this interpretation.

The “mythical beings” understanding is strange to me. I grew up on Lord of the Rings and other fantasy adventures, which had beings called “dwarves” who, as @Vegas Disney Fan mentioned, always seemed to be a “race” (ugh) of rugged, bearded people of short stature who worked in mines… which might support this interpretation.

I suppose what I’m trying to say is that the two can’t be neatly disentangled. For the reasons I’ve noted, I think Disney’s Seven Dwarfs are supposed to be understood as human beings (albeit fairytale ones), but that doesn’t mean they don’t have some of the attributes of their mythical counterparts (beards, an association with mining).

To offer an imperfect analogy, the chief in Peter Pan is a grotesque parody, barely human in how he’s been depicted, but we still know he’s supposed to represent a Native American (in keeping with the deeply problematic stereotypes of the 1950s).

 

[LittleBuford]

I'm not saying you made it up, just that you misremembered, specifically from a different line in the movie that is certainly also there in the movie. Which is why I pointed it out, and checked via a watching on D+ and then found a transcript online, before I posted.

I didn’t misremember the line. It’s there in your transcript:

What a weird point to argue with me on when I’ve already told you, twice, that I didn’t make the quote up.

 

[_caleb]

I suppose what I’m trying to say is that the two can’t be neatly disentangled. For the reasons I’ve noted, I think Disney’s Seven Dwarfs are supposed to be understood as human beings (albeit fairytale ones), but that doesn’t mean they don’t have some of the attributes of their mythical counterparts.

To offer an imperfect analogy, the chief in Peter Pan is a grotesque parody, barely human in how he’s been depicted, but we still know he’s supposed to represent a Native American.

Yes, I agree they cannot be neatly disentangled. I suspect the idea came from an insensitive place, but evolved into the “elves, dwarves, trolls, etc.” we read about in fantasy stories. And I think this is why Disney consulted with people to try to better understand how to treat/depict his these fantasy characters.

BTW, I’ve seen before that while the word “dwarf” has fallen out of favor in modern times, the plural of that word, “dwarfs” (as in “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs”) is grammatically correct, the term “dwarves” was used and popularized by JRR Tolkien in reference to the fantastical beings in his books.

 

[Disney Irish]

I didn’t misremember the line. It’s there in your transcript:

View attachment 751795

What a weird point to argue with me on when I’ve already told you, twice, that I didn’t make the quote up.

Once again I never said you made up that specific line from the movie. I guess I misunderstood your point, that specifically they were being called "little men" in the movie. I took it to mean that no one called them Dwarfs in the movie, which they were and all I was pointing out. Apologies.

I'm going to put this here from my other post to wrap this up....

As for your point, whether you personally believed them to be human men is fine. Others can see them as male magical creatures. Both can certainly be right from their perspectives as its never specifically clarified in the movie.