Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[LittleBuford]

Well then you might want to check again, as I just watch it right now on D+. And indeed the Magic Mirror calls them Dwarfs and so does the Queen, both prior and after turning into the old hag.

Here is the transcript, you can read it yourself, Pages 8 and 10 -

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Movie Script

Read, review and discuss the entire Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs movie script by Jacob Grimm on Scripts.com

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You really think I would have just made up the line I quoted? It’s there in your transcript, along with another instance in which she refers to them as “little men” (“The, the little men are not here?”). Yes, she and the Magic Mirror also refer to them as dwarfs, but I never said they didn’t, and it doesn’t change my point.

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[_caleb]

This discussion always puzzles me. If everyone views the dwarfs as supernatural beings who have nothing to do with people with dwarfism, why would Dinklage have said what he said, and why would those opposed to his views (including in this thread) have criticised Disney for denying work to actors with dwarfism?

I don’t know, but whether or not The Dwarfs were intended to be human people with dwarfism, it would make sense to me that advocates for equality, dignity, and sensitivity would want Disney to be cautious in a remake.

The idea of “a bunch of humans with Dwarfism…” seems like the sort of “having fun by making fun of” that was not uncommon in past times, similar to what you might have seen in a sideshow or minstrel show. The exaggerated features could support this interpretation.

The “mythical beings” understanding is strange to me. I grew up on Lord of the Rings and other fantasy adventures, which had beings called “dwarves” who, as @Vegas Disney Fan mentioned, always seemed to be a “race” (ugh) of rugged, bearded people of short stature who worked in mines… which might support this interpretation.

 

[Disney Irish]

You really think I would have just made up the line I quoted? It’s there in your transcript, along with another instance in which she refers to them as “little men” (“The, the little men are not here?”). Yes, she and the Magic Mirror also refer to them as dwarfs, but that doesn’t change my point.

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I'm not saying you made it up, just that you misremembered, specifically from a different line in the movie that is certainly also there in the movie. Which is why I pointed it out, and checked via a watching on D+ and then found a transcript online, before I posted.

As for your point, whether you personally believed them to be human men is fine. Others can see them as male magical creatures. Both can certainly be right from their perspectives as its never specifically clarified in the movie.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t know, but whether or not The Dwarfs were intended to be human people with dwarfism, it would make sense to me that advocates for equality, dignity, and sensitivity would want Disney to be cautious in a remake.

The idea of “a bunch of humans with Dwarfism…” seems like the sort of “having fun by making fun of” that was not uncommon in past times, similar to what you might have seen in a sideshow or minstrel show. The exaggerated features could support this interpretation.

The “mythical beings” understanding is strange to me. I grew up on Lord of the Rings and other fantasy adventures, which had beings called “dwarves” who, as @Vegas Disney Fan mentioned, always seemed to be a “race” (ugh) of rugged, bearded people of short stature who worked in mines… which might support this interpretation.

I suppose what I’m trying to say is that the two can’t be neatly disentangled. For the reasons I’ve noted, I think Disney’s Seven Dwarfs are supposed to be understood as human beings (albeit fairytale ones), but that doesn’t mean they don’t have some of the attributes of their mythical counterparts (beards, an association with mining).

To offer an imperfect analogy, the chief in Peter Pan is a grotesque parody, barely human in how he’s been depicted, but we still know he’s supposed to represent a Native American (in keeping with the deeply problematic stereotypes of the 1950s).

 

[LittleBuford]

I'm not saying you made it up, just that you misremembered, specifically from a different line in the movie that is certainly also there in the movie. Which is why I pointed it out, and checked via a watching on D+ and then found a transcript online, before I posted.

I didn’t misremember the line. It’s there in your transcript:

What a weird point to argue with me on when I’ve already told you, twice, that I didn’t make the quote up.

 

[_caleb]

I suppose what I’m trying to say is that the two can’t be neatly disentangled. For the reasons I’ve noted, I think Disney’s Seven Dwarfs are supposed to be understood as human beings (albeit fairytale ones), but that doesn’t mean they don’t have some of the attributes of their mythical counterparts.

To offer an imperfect analogy, the chief in Peter Pan is a grotesque parody, barely human in how he’s been depicted, but we still know he’s supposed to represent a Native American.

Yes, I agree they cannot be neatly disentangled. I suspect the idea came from an insensitive place, but evolved into the “elves, dwarves, trolls, etc.” we read about in fantasy stories. And I think this is why Disney consulted with people to try to better understand how to treat/depict his these fantasy characters.

BTW, I’ve seen before that while the word “dwarf” has fallen out of favor in modern times, the plural of that word, “dwarfs” (as in “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs”) is grammatically correct, the term “dwarves” was used and popularized by JRR Tolkien in reference to the fantastical beings in his books.

 

[Disney Irish]

I didn’t misremember the line. It’s there in your transcript:

View attachment 751795

What a weird point to argue with me on when I’ve already told you, twice, that I didn’t make the quote up.

Once again I never said you made up that specific line from the movie. I guess I misunderstood your point, that specifically they were being called "little men" in the movie. I took it to mean that no one called them Dwarfs in the movie, which they were and all I was pointing out. Apologies.

I'm going to put this here from my other post to wrap this up....

As for your point, whether you personally believed them to be human men is fine. Others can see them as male magical creatures. Both can certainly be right from their perspectives as its never specifically clarified in the movie.

 

[LittleBuford]

And I think this is why Disney consulted with people to try to better understand how to treat/depict his fantasy characters.

Are you referring to Walt Disney? If so, I don’t know what consultations you mean.

 

[_caleb]

Are you referring to Walt Disney? If so, I don’t know what consultations you mean.

"To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community," says Disney.

Disney Responds to Peter Dinklage’s ‘Snow White’ Live-Action Criticisms (Exclusive)

"To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community," says Disney.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[LittleBuford]

"To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community," says Disney.

Disney Responds to Peter Dinklage’s ‘Snow White’ Live-Action Criticisms (Exclusive)

"To avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community," says Disney.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

These consultations I know about.

You wrote “his” after Disney, hence my confusion and question.

 

[_caleb]

These consultations I know about.

You wrote “his” after Disney, hence my confusion and question.

Sorry for my lack of clarity. I knew you knew about these consultations!

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney doesn’t tell anybody anything. It’s been that way since I can remember.

That’s why there are entire threads on multiple sites devoted to how long you can park with a dinner reservation and whether an annual pass holder can take their family through the dedicated entrance.

Disney’s not going to respond to every goofy idea the internet comes up with, especially given some of the nonsense sites spreading this speculation.

Agreed, Disney does not respond to many things as the response would often make them look bad.

I think this leaked photo, bandits and/or dwarfs issue one falls into this category

 

[MisterPenguin]

In a medieval folk tale in which magic is real, I'm sure everyone understood "dwarf" to mean a person with a genetic trait. That's what folklores were known for: their biomedical and scientific acumen.

 

[LittleBuford]

In a medieval folk tale in which magic is real, I'm sure everyone understood "dwarf" to mean a person with a genetic trait. That's what folklores were known for: their biomedical and scientific acumen.

This is a mischaracterisation of what I’m saying, and it ignores what people with dwarfism have historically experienced. As I noted above, Germanic languages have for centuries used one and the same word to refer to both people with dwarfism and the mythical kind (I imagine the same is true of other languages, though I don’t know). People with dwarfism were routinely made to serve as jesters and fools in many Eurasian royal courts and put on display in freak shows. Live-action treatments of Snow White have traditionally featured actors with dwarfism, and many, here and elsewhere, have criticised Disney for not following suit with their remake. The distinction you’re trying to make is the same that others insist on when talking about the crows in Dumbo: “But they can’t be caricatures of Black people; they’re birds!”

 

[GimpYancIent]

What about the produce peddler?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Exactly. Why should any production, Disney or not, be forced to reveal story points for an unreleased movie, based on tabloid fodder.

Does anyone here realize why movie companies keep key plot devices secretive?

But a leak happened. They should have replied right away if it was true there was to be BOTH dwarfs and bandits.

The reality was that initially they intended to replace the dwarfs with the magical creatures, then the leak, then the backlash, then the one year delay, then we got both bandits and dwarfs.

 

[LittleBuford]

What about the produce peddler?View attachment 751852

I mean, the queen's a sorceress—presumably human, but with magical powers. Snow White herself is not devoid of preternatural gifts: she can talk to animals and even get them to clean a house!

 

[Chi84]

Agreed, Disney does not respond to many things as the response would often make them look bad.

I think this leaked photo, bandits and/or dwarfs issue one falls into this category

I think it’s because you seem to find everything about Disney bad.

The movie is over a year away. When it comes out Disney will publicize it, release trailers, promote it, etc. People will decide then whether it’s something they want to see. All of this talk now won’t matter.

I don’t see any benefit to Disney addressing every conspiracy theory between now and then, especially since that photo wasn’t an official one. There’s no end to the nonsense people are capable of making up.

 

[Andrew C]

People will decide then whether it’s something they want to see. All of this talk now won’t matter.

Except many people seem to be deciding now. So the talk, whether on here or on social media, does matter. I guess Disney could allow this to continue counting on their PR later to overcome a lot of the negative press or make statements to counter it. Although they could be just fine with the current press... I dunno, maybe they are stuck between a rock and a hard place....

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I think it’s because you seem to find everything about Disney bad.

The movie is over a year away. When it comes out Disney will publicize it, release trailers, promote it, etc. People will decide then whether it’s something they want to see. All of this talk now won’t matter.

I don’t see any benefit to Disney addressing every conspiracy theory between now and then, especially since that photo wasn’t an official one. There’s no end to the nonsense people are capable of making up.

While Disney didn't publish the magical bandits photograph, they did confirm its authenticity. They also INTENTIONALLY published this latest photo with the CGI/AI dwarfs. It's literally a promotional photograph, which is exactly the sort of thing that you're telling us that we're supposed to wait for. Those aren't conspiracy theories, they're straight from the Mouse's lips.

EDIT: Also, their star's controversial comments were literally on the blue carpet at D23, the official Disney fan event, with a friendly media.

You: Wait for Disney to start promoting the film, otherwise you're engaging in conspiracy theories.

Me: You mean like this promotional photograph and the promotional interviews the stars were giving at the promotional media event?

You: Wait no not like that.