Lights of Winter not being displayed this year (2009)!?!

[EPCOT Explorer]

See, this is why I think they had to keep discounts in place much longer than they would have. They MUST invest in the parks. The MK expansion is a great start. But AK needs a new land, DHS desperately needs to expand and Future World needs to be put back on the rails. And not necessarily in that order. That will fill the hotels even without discounts and grow the bottom line. IMO.

Plausible...but I really don't think that they are going to stop discounts. It just doesn't seem smart for them. IMO, too of course.


I just wish that they would discount their freaking park tics already!:zipit:


(Even though I DID get one from a AMAZING CM at the TTC who took our two day tics and made them into three day park hoppers. She is fully responsible for our little return trip in June, and I have sent a few good emails for that. )

 

[DisneyNut2007]

Its just beyond me that they took this out... first Cast in Bronze gone (apparently on bad terms from the response I got back from them and why am I not surprised) then The storytellers coming together replaced and now EVERYTHING taken out??

I dont know what they are thinking but it is completely opposite every time then what is supposed to happen to keep crowds happy. This Tree Lighting Ceremony was the absolute only thing I looked forward too at Disney for Christmas. With this absurdly dumbass move, I now find Universal Orlando takes the cake with Christmas shows and presentations with Manheim Steamroller and the Grinchmas show.

Disney I was one of your biggest fans in 1999, 2000, and 2001... but now.. I think your parks are freaking PATHETIC!!! You create an amazing ice castle and what do you use as your lighting ceremony for a monumental masterpiece like that???: another "Oh help me summon the magic cuz I can't do it alone, bittity babety boo" crap fest. Seriously, your oh so talentented show writers ran out of creative juice or was that ________ written during the writer's guild strike???

Sorry people if reading this upsets you, but I'm just so upset with this and the whole Disney park attitude that I just can't shut up anymore and I know this is a fan site. I know this wont make any difference because WDW doesn't give a rat's ______ what their guests think or say. Disney thinks it is now so big that it is invincible but this will be a an ultimate downfall if that nasty attitude dont change. Create new shows, keep what works, etc etc. where the hell is your 'wow-factor'??? WHERE IS THE DISNEY THAT CREATED REFLECTIONS OF EARTH, FANTASMIC and stuff like this Epcot Tree Lighting Ceremony??? Ya'll should be commited right now because sorry to say but you absolutely SUCK with what you crank out these days. You now moved from mediocre presentations to empty space. Bravo...

Sounds to me like you're being WAAAAAAAAY too harsh.

 

[jt04]

Have you had an epiphanyover the holidays, or just bashed yer head?

I've always been an advocate for expanding the theme parks in big ways. It's why I stay away during the lulls. If I had it my way, a new E or D ticket would open every year.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I've always been an advocate for expanding the theme parks in big ways. It's why I stay away during the lulls. If I had it my way, a new E or D ticket would open every year.

That may be the first bit of sense Ive read in one of your posts. :wave:

 

[harryk]

Just got back from WDW. Spent Christmas there and had a great time.
However, the crowds were greater than I expected so I believe I shall return to the first 2 weeks of December for future visits.

EPCOT looked like any other day. One would never know that it was the Christmas Season (excuse me -- I should say HOLIDAY season to be PC -- but I'm not P.C.)

The Fountain of Nations was spectacular -- ran frequently and it's program was about 1/2 hour long and this was all Christmas music. The draw back was a stage full of various shades of blue trees where the singers stood to do their show (I never was there to hear or see them). The color blue was a great selection to go with the mood of no decorations.

Many cast members asked where I purchased my 'Bring Back the Lights of Winter' pin and I told them to go to this site.

11 months to go before I return to WDW :xmas::xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

Did you see the recent Jason Garcia OrSen article? I was shocked to see Eisner quoted and suprised you have not commented on it. Eisner seems very happy about the Staggs move. Since Eisner was willing to invest serious capital in the parks, especially WDW, perhaps he thinks Staggs will return to that strategy. What is your take?

http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2009/12/new-disney-parks-chief-faces-big-challenges/

I have commented on it in other threads (and on other sites), but largely I feel it was PR (much like his later piece Rasulo).

I am not surprised that Eisner had positive things to say. He hired him to start with. And execs in that business tend to either say positive things, say negative things without their names attatches or (usually) say nothing at all.

I am a bit surprised that you're saying Eisner invested in the parks. I thought your take was he ignored them and let them rot and The Weatherman/Sheriff was gonna fix all that?

I hope Staggs does a good job, but I believe very little will change. Iger's vision for Disney is what Rasulo and, now, Staggs will push.

I've said I believe the job switch had more to do with Iger wanting to show he was in control. D-Cook had too much control of the Studios in Iger's egocentric mind, so he had to go. Rasulo had just completed a four-year project of stacking every resort with men and women beholden to him for power (and not Iger) and with that kind of fiefdom comes considerable power. ... So, he threw everyone for a loop.

I do NOT believe that Staggs is being groomed as a No. 2 (and eventual No. 1) at Disney. That is coming from Staggs' people leaking that ... and I've been told by people in Burbank that Iger isn't happy about it and has told him so in no uncertain terms.

 

[WDW1974]

Have you had an epiphanyover the holidays, or just bashed yer head?

That sir, is funny ROFLMAO stuff.

You are the second-funniest Scottish dude I know. :ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

That sir, is funny ROFLMAO stuff.

You are the second-funniest Scottish dude I know. :ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

Is the first Mr. Ferguson? :lol:

 

[jt04]

I have commented on it in other threads (and on other sites), but largely I feel it was PR (much like his later piece Rasulo).

I am not surprised that Eisner had positive things to say. He hired him to start with. And execs in that business tend to either say positive things, say negative things without their names attatches or (usually) say nothing at all.

I am a bit surprised that you're saying Eisner invested in the parks. I thought your take was he ignored them and let them rot and The Weatherman/Sheriff was gonna fix all that?

I hope Staggs does a good job, but I believe very little will change. Iger's vision for Disney is what Rasulo and, now, Staggs will push.

I've said I believe the job switch had more to do with Iger wanting to show he was in control. D-Cook had too much control of the Studios in Iger's egocentric mind, so he had to go. Rasulo had just completed a four-year project of stacking every resort with men and women beholden to him for power (and not Iger) and with that kind of fiefdom comes considerable power. ... So, he threw everyone for a loop.

I do NOT believe that Staggs is being groomed as a No. 2 (and eventual No. 1) at Disney. That is coming from Staggs' people leaking that ... and I've been told by people in Burbank that Iger isn't happy about it and has told him so in no uncertain terms.

I have never said Eisner left the parks to rot. :shrug: What I have said is he made numerous poor choices with growing WDW. I have also said he did more good than bad. To be more specific

The bad..

Placing PI in the middle of DTD and "dividing" the area.
The placement of the Swan and Dolphin and going third party in the heart of the property.
The massive highway build-out on property rather than expanding the monorail system.
Reactionary responses to Universal that created Disney-MGM and DAK (although the concept and execution were great, it was too early to add both parks IMO)
Giving in on Alien Encounter and then compounding that with SGE.
MILF.
LaL tombstones.
Energy's reimagining.
Imaginations reimagining.
Soarin installed without a film that fits the theme.
The Wand and BAH! :brick:
Scaling back Kali.
Pirates/Depp overlay
Not maintaining attractions in pristine condition as far as is possible.
Walmarting most merchandise and most dining.

The good...

Wilderness Lodge. :sohappy:
Tomorrowland overlay.
Disney-MGM. Working studio was a failed concept but the park was very well Imagined.
Studios expansion that set the course for an awesome park in the future.
ToT.
RnRC.
DAK, but again built to soon thereby keeping the other parks from expanding as quickly as they needed to.
Tree of Life!
Coronado Springs.
Grand Floridian.
Game changing water parks.
Closing River Country (I realize you disagree with this :lol
AKL!
Saratoga Springs.
Dixie Landings and Port Orleans.
Removing the Skyway and 20K. Yes, I mean it. It will make more sense in a few years.

I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff.

Iger green lighted Pixar Place and AIE, both huge successes by any measure.
Iger green lighted the new Fantasyland. People are grossly underestimating this decision. It's a turning point for WDW.
The Wand left. No matter the rumors, it happened on his watch.
The BAH is going.
Attractions are finally getting the needed maintenance. (HM, JC, Splash)
SSE rehab mostly a success.
No poorly themed attractions added. That is critical. I don't think you will see any more ideas go forward that are not well thought out and that meet Disney's highest standards. Time will tell.

I think that the complaints about SSE, Space Mountain and how the closure of PI was handled has as much to do with the management changes as anything. I get the feeling no more major decisions will be made without Staggs passing them by Iger. No more SSE descent failures, no more SM-esque budgets approved.


By the way, when you say things like "I've been told by people in Burbank" etc, it rings so phony to me. I'm just not buying into it. Sorry, but you get too much wrong to be as "connected" as you portray yourself. And I'm not trying to get you to identify yourself. It is just 'embarassing' to read some of the stuff you write. :lol:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

It is just 'embarassing' to read some of the stuff you write. :lol:

As has been written many times about your postings / wafflings.


But a point of order "too much wrong" implies he must get some things correct, is this just another example of you contradicting yourself?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Is the first Mr. Ferguson? :lol:

Sir Awex ??? or Barry?

 

[jt04]

As has been written many times about your postings / wafflings.


But a point of order "too much wrong" implies he must get some things correct, is this just another example of you contradicting yourself?

Where his postings are concerned, the proverbial broken clock comes to mind.

And I bet you can't name one prediction or statement I have "waffled" on.

Sorry, make that two.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

I have never said Eisner left the parks to rot. :shrug: What I have said is he made numerous poor choices with growing WDW. I have also said he did more good than bad. To be more specific

The bad..

Placing PI in the middle of DTD and "dividing" the area.
The placement of the Swan and Dolphin and going third party in the heart of the property.
The massive highway build-out on property rather than expanding the monorail system.
Reactionary responses to Universal that created Disney-MGM and DAK (although the concept and execution were great, it was too early to add both parks IMO)
Giving in on Alien Encounter and then compounding that with SGE.
MILF.
LaL tombstones.
Energy's reimagining.
Imaginations reimagining.
Soarin installed without a film that fits the theme.
The Wand and BAH! :brick:
Scaling back Kali.
Pirates/Depp overlay
Not maintaining attractions in pristine condition as far as is possible.
Walmarting most merchandise and most dining.

I agree with most of those, except for what I've bolded.

I also agree that Iger is NOT ego-centric or any of that Eisner-esque nonsense, despite what 74 and his fellow naysayers may say or think.

I too can feel that things are going to be getting better at WDW over the next few years. And I'm optimistic that it'll include reinstating previously cut Xmas offerings like CBJ Xmas, LoW, etc. and adding more Xmas events to put it on par with those of DL and the overseas parks.

 

[BroganMc]

I just returned from my NYE trip to Disney. Boycotted EPCOT for NYE this year (saw it in early Dec) but did visit NY Day. It's very barren and sad, especially at night. The singers' stage was broken down as well so all left for decorations was the tree, a bit of the NYE band lighting and the display garden at the gate.

I stopped inside Guest Relations on my way out to register my disappointment. CM I talked with said they're keeping a special file for all the LoW complaints. He said he personally gets 40-50 complaints a day and expects many times more with other cast members. So it has been noted.

He also gave me some info. Not sure how relaible it is. Stuff about the lights and why they were not put up this year. (My cousin was with me and is an electrician who studied them last year so knew what part of the speak made sense.) Lights they used were sign bulbs about 30 years old and 60% needed replacements but none could be found. I complained mightily that they could have made some fix with all the time they had to prep them. CM told me that he was 99.99% certain that they would be brought back next year but as a LED display like Osborne. He said the arches were to be rebuilt and wired for a new, better display.

I also gave him one of my Bring Back LoW pins. He loved the design.

I'm not sure how much info is accurate vs corporate speak. At least it seems GR has been flooded with complaints and management knows. I made a point of saying how the plans to bring them back affect the trip I'm tentaively planning for my aunt & uncle next year.

 

[EPCOTPluto]

I stopped inside Guest Relations on my way out to register my disappointment. CM I talked with said they're keeping a special file for all the LoW complaints. He said he personally gets 40-50 complaints a day and expects many times more with other cast members. So it has been noted.

Whoa! Certainly keeping tabs, are they? Yes they should...

He also gave me some info. Not sure how reliable it is. Stuff about the lights and why they were not put up this year. (My cousin was with me and is an electrician who studied them last year so knew what part of the speak made sense.) Lights they used were sign bulbs about 30 years old and 60% needed replacements but none could be found. I complained mightily that they could have made some fix with all the time they had to prep them. CM told me that he was 99.99% certain that they would be brought back next year but as a LED display like Osborne. He said the arches were to be rebuilt and wired for a new, better display.

So some part of the "obsolete" Tweet was true then...:lookaroun

Well, that does bring a little bit of hope back within me. Let's see if it does happen then.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Well, it's January 3rd and the Lights are down! They were quick this year!!:sohappy:






:lookaroun:ROFLOL:

I just returned from my NYE trip to Disney. Boycotted EPCOT for NYE this year (saw it in early Dec) but did visit NY Day. It's very barren and sad, especially at night. The singers' stage was broken down as well so all left for decorations was the tree, a bit of the NYE band lighting and the display garden at the gate.

I stopped inside Guest Relations on my way out to register my disappointment. CM I talked with said they're keeping a special file for all the LoW complaints. He said he personally gets 40-50 complaints a day and expects many times more with other cast members. So it has been noted.

He also gave me some info. Not sure how relaible it is. Stuff about the lights and why they were not put up this year. (My cousin was with me and is an electrician who studied them last year so knew what part of the speak made sense.) Lights they used were sign bulbs about 30 years old and 60% needed replacements but none could be found. I complained mightily that they could have made some fix with all the time they had to prep them. CM told me that he was 99.99% certain that they would be brought back next year but as a LED display like Osborne. He said the arches were to be rebuilt and wired for a new, better display.

I also gave him one of my Bring Back LoW pins. He loved the design.

I'm not sure how much info is accurate vs corporate speak. At least it seems GR has been flooded with complaints and management knows. I made a point of saying how the plans to bring them back affect the trip I'm tentaively planning for my aunt & uncle next year.

Well, that can't be true... EPCOT is only 27. And the LoW did not premier opening year. They came in the late 80's/90's, right?

 

[EPCOTPluto]

Well, that can't be true... EPCOT is only 27. And the LoW did not premier opening year. They came in the late 80's/90's, right?

Perhaps the tech used was older then, if that's the case...

 

[accord99cutie]

I am really hoping they bring them back next year! I am already planning a trip in April/May but will be trying to convince my DH that we HAVE to take a trip in December to show our DD all the Holiday displays! (we went in Dec of 07' and really enjoyed the LoW!) I would be really excited to see the look on DD's face watching them! I'll just keep hoping for them!!!

 

[BroganMc]

Well, that can't be true... EPCOT is only 27. And the LoW did not premier opening year. They came in the late 80's/90's, right?

According to my cousin (the electrician and remodeler) they were sign bulbs. A tech around 30 years old. The CM knew them as "square bulbs" that aren't made anymore.

The framework itself was designed a decade or so ago but they didn't use current tech for the lighting. The flicker bulbs Disney uses is also very old technology. Sometimes old tech works best because it is so well known. But when you can't get the parts to keep it going, you've got problems.

The mistake they made was not preparing for an upgrade the last couple years. But then, I'm kinda glad they went for broke in NOT dressing up the park this year. It makes that area seem all the more desolate, especially to first timers.

 

[gsimpson]

other parts of the obsolete story could also be true

I work with stage lighting and dimmers (the kind used for LOW) and the older generations cannot really handle LEDs well, the problem is that LEDs are so very low current, the leakage (amount of current that comes through when they are turned off) of the SCRs/Triacs (depending on type of dimmer) keeps LEDs lit when incandescent bulbs would be dark, which means all the LEDs would be on, to some degree, all the time. In a similar vein, the "brightness" curve is very different for LEDs so the program would look awful if the were not changed. With traditional lights, the brightness changes in a fairly linear relationship to the voltage supplied, in LEDs, the relationship is much more of a curve that is weighted toward the lower end. The part about the lights not being made anymore is not completely true, they are still made and used by the carnival/traveling fair industry but they are expensive. I wonder if Disney tried simply changing the bulbs out for LEDs and found that it simply didn't work and it was too late to change??? I am not trying to excuse the mess, after all they should certainly know more than anyone about the pitfalls of changing from incandescent to LED. I guess we will know next year when we see if they replace it, repair it, or do nothing.

I hope I won't get too much bashing for trying to defend Disney because that is not the intent.