Fido Chuckwagon
Well-Known Member
No, they wouldn’t.If you totally eliminated DAS, the wait times would be just as bad
No, they wouldn’t.If you totally eliminated DAS, the wait times would be just as bad
I think this sums up the problem Disney is in and why I find the abuse so gross. It is easy to abuse because there are many protections in place that make it hard to just call someone out. If you do and you happen to be wrong in that specific instance, you open yourself up to potential massive lawsuits.How can anyone prove a DAS user does NOT need one that so many claim its getting abused?
They would only be just as bad if Disney increased the amount of G+ inventory equivalent to the drop in DAS abusers (and sold the increased inventory). If not, it would be better as there would be less people in the LL lines keeping standby from moving.Disney is blaming DAS for its failed Genie+ and ILL. Why not? Everyone else does.
If you totally eliminated DAS, the wait times would be just as bad.
When our Remy reservation was cancelled the other day we got an anytime pass, and tried to use it at Test Track, but they said we couldn’t use it at Test Track, Soarin, or Frozen. I was like “So Gran Fiesta then?” the CM laughed (she was very nice about it). So it’s not necessarily similar tier.If a ride closes that you have a DAS return time for, and it stays closed when it gets close to your DAS return time, your DAS return time converts into an anytime fast pass for that or similar tier attractions and you can immediately pull a new DAS return time somewhere else.
There are two problems here that share a single solution: (a) people without a valid disability using DAS to obtain an advantage over other guests (i.e. by abusing the system), (b) people with a valid disability using DAS to obtain an advantage over other guests (i.e. by using the system the way it’s currently designed).
In theory, DAS is not meant to give disabled guests an extra advantage, but only to remove the disadvantage caused by their disability.
DAS is well known within Disney to be massively abused. The entire program has been under a massive review, and DAS is seen as the biggest issue negatively impacting LL and standby wait times. Expect to see changes.
Mostly agree with your post, but #2 is a non-starter. They can't tell people that because they are disabled and get DAS to skip standby lines that they are now unable to pay for the same services as others. The only real solution is to more carefully vet those looking for DAS passes.Longish post incoming...
I'm glad you posted this, because I felt like there were a number of competing arguments about DAS (in a Genie+ thread no less) and what the abuse actually was. As someone that has used DAS with my niece, I think the system itself, works as it should. Is there an advantage? Yes (though it is not always perfect at what it does), but that's intended and the reason for the system.
I think (?) many can agree the abuse lies in the number of users and whether a valid need or not. That obviously is a slippery slope, but one that should be reviewed. Speaking anecdotally, I can say the number of guests included on a DAS primary's group can be above what is supposed to be the maximum. I've seen it at both Guest Services and at attractions when the allotment (should be 6 including the primary) either slightly or well exceeds that on every trip I've accompanied my niece. This obviously doesn't help LL queue time.
Tying this back into Genie+....
- Remove the 2 Pre-bookings from DAS. When Genie+ adds the ability to pre-book 1 per day this year, I would mirror that with DAS, but to me, that capability and feature should match
- DAS users should not use Genie+ (controversial maybe), but I think it should be an either or and guests should pick one "skip the line" option of the two if eligible for both
- You cannot limit DAS users who have a pass in 45 min for Peter Pan from waiting in a 10 min standby line for Dumbo, that argument just seems odd to me
DAS has been very helpful for my niece and her family, but I will tell you, if they are with me in the parks for a day, they typically do not use DAS and utilize Genie+ instead. An experienced Genie+ user (IMO), is generally going to have more success pulling shorter return times in succession than a DAS user relying on the posted wait times before they can ride something with the LL. There are always exceptions with high demand attractions or hard to obtain Genie+ of course.
I 100% understand the discourse with the lines for Lightning Lane that encompass Genie+, DAS, etc. In Genie+ case, it's a paid service, and now there's even more of an expectation which I think went way over the heads at TWDC. Seeing extended LL lines for Peter Pan, Slinky, BTM etc. shouldn't be a shocker though especially on a crappy throughput ride like PPF. Any high demand ride that goes down for any extended period of time, this happens, and happened when FastPass was around.
Bottom line to me with Genie+ and the Lightning Lane itself is, the parks have done a woeful job of increasing attraction capacity to match attendance, maintenance/downtime issues get exacerbated for both Standby and LL, I'm not privy to LL sales, but I don't get the impression they are capped as much as they should, and of course the DAS issues noted. Working on one of these isn't enough.
Disney is blaming DAS for its failed Genie+ and ILL. Why not? Everyone else does.
If you totally eliminated DAS, the wait times would be just as bad.
Mostly agree with your post, but #2 is a non-starter. They can't tell people that because they are disabled and get DAS to skip standby lines that they are now unable to pay for the same services as others. The only real solution is to more carefully vet those looking for DAS passes.
I actually think 3 is completely reasonable, and fixing that would remove the need to make change 2. If DAS is a proxy for standing in a queue, it should act like standing in a queue as far as ride utilization goes. You shouldn’t be able to tap into other rides.
- Remove the 2 Pre-bookings from DAS. When Genie+ adds the ability to pre-book 1 per day this year, I would mirror that with DAS, but to me, that capability and feature should match
- DAS users should not use Genie+ (controversial maybe), but I think it should be an either or and guests should pick one "skip the line" option of the two if eligible for both
- You cannot limit DAS users who have a pass in 45 min for Peter Pan from waiting in a 10 min standby line for Dumbo, that argument just seems odd to me
I hope you are correct bc people who need it can still get it people who dont will not… its funny tho now they want to do something bc its hurting a revenue stream not to make the guest experience any better. And FTR i still think lines will be long and this will have a minimal impact on wait times where guests will still be complaining. Just my thoughts on the matter.DAS is well known within Disney to be massively abused. The entire program has been under a massive review, and DAS is seen as the biggest issue negatively impacting LL and standby wait times. Expect to see changes.
Perhaps slightly lower wait times but nothing that would help the failed Genie+ and ILL system.No, they wouldn’t.
I feel like you contradicted yourself in one post. If the point of DAS is to equal the playing field and you agree current DAS gives and advantage, why wouldn't you adjust/limit it to match?Listen as a DAS user am i at an “advantage” when it comes to rides yes and i would say ive also fine tuned the best way to use the system as well to maximize my day. I get the point of DAS is to “equal” the playing field for guests w/ no disabilities & people feel DAS users have an advantage but to me some do and others dont it all depends. Just like everything else. To limit DAS because people feel they are at an advantage is silly. I will say this tho and they probably cant bc of legal but i would limit 1 ride per day maybe 2 max. And im guilty of riding things multiple times via DAS
Advantage | Proposed solution. |
Pre-booking 2 rides | Eliminate it, there is no non-DAS equivalent. Encourages abuse. |
Enjoying non-attraction experience was waiting for a DAS return time | Do nothing, allow the DAS users to enjoy the park, eat, shop ect. Logistical nightmare to try to fix |
Enjoying an attraction via standby while waiting for a DAS return time | Do nothing. Logistical nightmare to try to fix without facial recognition at each standby line |
Redeem a G+ LL while waiting for a DAS return time | Utilize the app to disallow making a DAS return time that completely overlaps a currently made G+ return time. Also disallow making a G+ return time that is completely overlapped by a current DAS return time. Finally disallow redeeming that G+ LL return time while still waiting for the DAS return time. Basically treat the DAS return time like a standby line when it comes to G+ |
A non-disabled guest can wait in a standby line while they wait for their next G+ return time. Why should a truly disabled guest (not an abuser of the system) not be able to hold a simultaneous G+ and DAS return time, when you consider that DAS is their way of waiting in a standby line (due to their inability to do so), and G+ is benefit they paid for just like a non-disabled guest. Your proposed solution would create an inequity between the disabled and non-disabled guest by reducing the value a disabled guest can derive from G+ when compared to the non-disabled guest.Utilize the app to disallow making a DAS return time that completely overlaps a currently made G+ return time. Also disallow making a G+ return time that is completely overlapped by a current DAS return time.
Finally disallow redeeming that G+ LL return time while still waiting for the DAS return time.
Basically treat the DAS return time like a standby line when it comes to G+
It really depends on how much of these changes will affect the amount of people in the LL line. If there is a large reduction in people utilizing the LL Disney will have 2 choices.Tweaking DAS to improve Genie+ and ILL is the equivalent of adding the electrical tape lines on the seats of MMRR to increase the ride's capacity!
Wait, I take it back, the tape did a better job.
I already have stated that the2 pre booked rides to me are not needed but why would anyone refuse them if they are eligible. I choose to Buy Genie not a free service which is perfectly allowed. I qualify for DAS. So i somehwat get what you are saying but imo there is some “hate” to people who use DAS unless its a visible one or one that slows people down…I feel like you contradicted yourself in one post. If the point of DAS is to equal the playing field and you agree current DAS gives and advantage, why wouldn't you adjust/limit it to match?
List of advantages I can think of with my proposed solution:
Advantage Proposed solution. Pre-booking 2 rides Eliminate it, there is no non-DAS equivalent. Encourages abuse. Enjoying non-attraction experience was waiting for a DAS return time Do nothing, allow the DAS users to enjoy the park, eat, shop ect. Logistical nightmare to try to fix Enjoying an attraction via standby while waiting for a DAS return time Do nothing. Logistical nightmare to try to fix without facial recognition at each standby line Redeem a G+ LL while waiting for a DAS return time Utilize the app to disallow making a DAS return time that completely overlaps a currently made G+ return time. Also disallow making a G+ return time that is completely overlapped by a current DAS return time.
Finally disallow redeeming that G+ LL return time while still waiting for the DAS return time.
Basically treat the DAS return time like a standby line when it comes to G+
No one is saying people shouldn’t use the services for which they are eligible, but every unique advantage offered to DAS users both goes against the intent of the system and makes it more attractive to would-be abusers.I already have stated that the2 pre booked rides to me are not needed but why would anyone refuse them if they are eligible.
Exactly& lets face it. Any significant extra inventory they have they will definitely be selling those as well on Genie. Now Genie has not sold out often so it could be a non event but if DAS abusers want similar access they will 100% be paying for GeniePerhaps slightly lower wait times but nothing that would help the failed Genie+ and ILL system.
Listen. We can agree to disagree. If someone is eligible for DAS and buys Genie they should be able to use both as they want. Im not saying that as a DAS user im saying it as a common sense who cares pov…No one is saying people shouldn’t use the services for which they are eligible, but every unique advantage offered to DAS users both goes against the intent of the system and makes it more attractive to would-be abusers.
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