Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[doctornick]

I mean I’m all for DAS. It’s just some posters here made it sound like it’s being abused so much that it’s ruining the standby experience for everyone else.

I have no idea what to believe so I’ll just shutup and hope for the best.

I have no idea myself, but some insiders (I think @ToTBellHop in particular) have made the claim that DAS usage has increased and is viewed and an issue by filling up a large portion of the LL queues. And that is is a big enough problem that Disney is looking into ways to curb its use.

 

[doctornick]

The only legal/viable solution for DAS is making the process to acquire it difficult or require additional documentation ala Universal's program.

No, another solution would be to make it less valuable. Some have already mentioned how allowing for (is it 2?) pre-booked attractions a day with DAS is not really necessary as an accommodation and could be removed.

An alternative - though I don't think it would be worth it to pursue this nor would there necessarily be the space - would be to have people who check in for their DAS wait in a room at the ride where they can sit/be in air condition rather than have to be in line. But this would prevent them from going and doing something else as an alternative to waiting in line (the "waiting in two lines at once" issue). Universal has such rooms in their queues for rider switch purposes.

 

[SamusAranX]

This is incorrect…

My friend usually gets a push notification saying “your plans have changed” and then the reservation is gone? But we don’t see any return time notification or eligibility to go on it anytime. We can of course select a different ride and return window. This would be news to us

 

[UNCgolf]

I’m sure this would present some logistical challenges, but the best approach would be to have guests scan their MBs upon entry to the standby line, which would automatically trigger forfeiture of any current DAS LL reservations. This way, regardless of whether you qualify for DAS, you can only wait in one standby line (real or virtual) at a given time. Similarly, if you have G+, redeeming a G+ LL would result in forfeiture of any current DAS LL.

There would no longer be any incentive to abuse the system by feigning a disability, as it would provide no advantage. And those who can’t wait in physical lines would continue to receive the necessary accommodations.

While this could potentially pass ADA muster, I'm not sure it's a great idea in practice -- I understand wanting to prevent someone from getting a DAS reservation for one ride then going and waiting in a 45 minute line for another, but it would be a bit silly to prevent them from doing walk-on attractions (or even ones with a very short wait).

And since G+ is a separate paid service, I don't think you could deny them the ability to use it while still using their DAS.

No, another solution would be to make it less valuable. Some have already mentioned how allowing for (is it 2?) pre-booked attractions a day with DAS is not really necessary as an accommodation and could be removed.

An alternative - though I don't think it would be worth it to pursue this nor would there necessarily be the space - would be to have people who check in for their DAS wait in a room at the ride where they can sit/be in air condition rather than have to be in line. But this would prevent them from going and doing something else as an alternative to waiting in line (the "waiting in two lines at once" issue). Universal has such rooms in their queues for rider switch purposes.

I don't think Disney would even want to do this. They're prefer those people at least be able to shop and/or eat than have them just sitting and taking up space somewhere.

 

[DisneyDodo]

While this could potentially pass ADA muster, I'm not sure it's a great idea in practice -- I understand wanting to prevent someone from getting a DAS reservation for one ride then going and waiting in a 45 minute line for another, but it would be a bit silly to prevent them from doing walk-on attractions (or even ones with a very short wait).

They could perhaps have a carve out for literal walk-ons (like shows and flat rides with open seats), but not for short waits, since you’d still be increasing the wait times for people in line (an extra 1 min in a short line vs an extra 1 min in a long line both consume 1 min of your time)

And since G+ is a separate paid service, I don't think you could deny them the ability to use it while still using their DAS.

You wouldn’t deny them the ability to use the service. They just couldn’t redeem a G+ LL/ILL while virtually waiting in a standby line.

 

[doctornick]

I don't think Disney would even want to do this. They're prefer those people at least be able to shop and/or eat than have them just sitting and taking up space somewhere.

Oh I agree. I don’t think it would be a “solution” that Disney would want, only trying to say that there are ways to keep DAS being a proper accommodation while being able to remove elements that make it a prime target for abuse.

 

[Touchdown]

There is other ways beside checking bands, though they carry an expense.

1. All DAS groups could be assigned a CM guide to go with them and make sure they don’t get in line for another ride while holding a DAS return time.

2. Open and staff a large lounge or lounges in the park with facilities, food services, TVs and plenty of seats. Make it so only CMs in that location could book DAS for you and require parties to remain on site in the lounge until their time is called.

 

[GhostHost1000]

There is other ways beside checking bands, though they carry an expense.

1. All DAS groups could be assigned a CM guide to go with them and make sure they don’t get in line for another ride while holding a DAS return time.

2. Open and staff a large lounge or lounges in the park with facilities, food services, TVs and plenty of seats. Make it so only CMs in that location could book DAS for you and require parties to remain on the lounge until their time is called.

Or they could simply do like Universal does and have a 3rd party validate their DAS needs ahead of time. Problem solved.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

When a ride closes down, the app deletes your DAS reservation, and you then have to rebook it with the listed wait time once it reopens, provided you don’t have another replacement DAS ride reservation in place already

If a ride closes that you have a DAS return time for, and it stays closed when it gets close to your DAS return time, your DAS return time converts into an anytime fast pass for that or similar tier attractions and you can immediately pull a new DAS return time somewhere else.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

My friend usually gets a push notification saying “your plans have changed” and then the reservation is gone? But we don’t see any return time notification or eligibility to go on it anytime. We can of course select a different ride and return window. This would be news to us

You’ve never noticed that you also have an anytime fast pass to replace the cancelled return time? Because you do.

 

[Dranth]

Based on zero facts. As ive stated if Disney knows its getting abused they can and would easily put an end to it because by not doing so its costing them money. So if Disney doesnt know “insiders” sure have no accurate proof of any abuse either…

I believe Len had a post using known numbers at Haunted Mansion to help illustrate the DAS problem. We also have a few insiders who mentioned separately that Disney is aware of the issue and they are looking at ways to curb it. As for easily putting an end to it, I don't think it is as straight forward as that. Last time they changed it they faced public backlash over the optics as well as over 40 lawsuits.

For them to be considering making changes now tells me it has reached a point (or is reaching one) where it is more painful to let the abuse continue than to deal with a rash of lawsuits and all the time and money they will waste by making more changes.

Fixing DAS abuse will not suddenly make G+ and the standby issues go away, but it will help. How much depends on how bad the abuse has actually been.

 

[Andrew25]

In addition to DAS, I also think a portion of LL users recently have been "make good" lightning lanes offered by guest services. Considering how complicated and expensive a visit is now, there's more "stress" associated to making sure things are more perfect for one's visit. I know lots of people are getting LL passes at DHS when multiple attractions go down simultaneously.

 

[Splash4eva]

I believe Len had a post using known numbers at Haunted Mansion to help illustrate the DAS problem. We also have a few insiders who mentioned separately that Disney is aware of the issue and they are looking at ways to curb it. As for easily putting an end to it, I don't think it is as straight forward as that. Last time they changed it they faced public backlash over the optics as well as over 40 lawsuits.

For them to be considering making changes now tells me it has reached a point (or is reaching one) where it is more painful to let the abuse continue than to deal with a rash of lawsuits and all the time and money that will waste by making more changes.

Fixing DAS abuse will not suddenly make G+ and the standby issues go away, but it will help. How much depends on how bad the abuse has actually been.

Nothing against Len but how would he or anyone know DAS users are “fraud” he has claimed the usage is high personally not going to debate that issue i can only go by my own experience when im in line checking in and see a blue vs green circle light up. If this has been an ongoing issue DIsney is aware about yet cant figure out how to resolve it than shame on them. If someone is literally lying about a condition that Disney “can prove” then do something. Personally i dont think thats the case with a high amount of people who guests claim are “abusing” the system. Im just curious. How can anyone prove a DAS user does NOT need one that so many claim its getting abused?

 

[wdwmagic]

Nothing against Len but how would he or anyone know DAS users are “fraud” he has claimed the usage is high personally not going to debate that issue i can only go by my own experience when im in line checking in and see a blue vs green circle light up. If this has been an ongoing issue DIsney is aware about yet cant figure out how to resolve it than shame on them. If someone is literally lying about a condition that Disney “can prove” then do something. Personally i dont think thats the case with a high amount of people who guests claim are “abusing” the system. Im just curious. How can anyone prove a DAS user does NOT need one that so many claim its getting abused?

DAS is well known within Disney to be massively abused. The entire program has been under a massive review, and DAS is seen as the biggest issue negatively impacting LL and standby wait times. Expect to see changes.

 

[pdude81]

Nothing against Len but how would he or anyone know DAS users are “fraud” he has claimed the usage is high personally not going to debate that issue i can only go by my own experience when im in line checking in and see a blue vs green circle light up. If this has been an ongoing issue DIsney is aware about yet cant figure out how to resolve it than shame on them. If someone is literally lying about a condition that Disney “can prove” then do something. Personally i dont think thats the case with a high amount of people who guests claim are “abusing” the system. Im just curious. How can anyone prove a DAS user does NOT need one that so many claim its getting abused?

Len seems to be guided very specifically by data. So when he gives us numbers, we know he has a team of people paid to count or measure those numbers. It's not a "feels like" temperature

 

[PREMiERdrum]

DAS is well known within Disney to be massively abused. The entire program has been under a massive review, and DAS is seen as the biggest issue negatively impacting LL and standby wait times. Expect to see changes.

+1.

DAS changes are rolling out with the upcoming Genie+ "improvements."

It's a problem, and they're trying to fix it.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney is blaming DAS for its failed Genie+ and ILL. Why not? Everyone else does.

If you totally eliminated DAS, the wait times would be just as bad.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

If you totally eliminated DAS, the wait times would be just as bad

No, they wouldn’t.

 

[Dranth]

How can anyone prove a DAS user does NOT need one that so many claim its getting abused?

I think this sums up the problem Disney is in and why I find the abuse so gross. It is easy to abuse because there are many protections in place that make it hard to just call someone out. If you do and you happen to be wrong in that specific instance, you open yourself up to potential massive lawsuits.

What they do know, from what we have been told, is that an abnormal number of people are using DAS. I would bet Disney even knows what methods are being used to game the system but I doubt they want to chance targeting a specific visitor. So, change the system to address what people are doing instead of going after individuals seems like a much safer solution.

We haven't seen action yet because because despite what we all may think on occasion, I believe they really do care in this case and don't want to mess the program up for the folks that actually need it.

 

[Dranth]

Disney is blaming DAS for its failed Genie+ and ILL. Why not? Everyone else does.

If you totally eliminated DAS, the wait times would be just as bad.

They would only be just as bad if Disney increased the amount of G+ inventory equivalent to the drop in DAS abusers (and sold the increased inventory). If not, it would be better as there would be less people in the LL lines keeping standby from moving.