Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Splash4eva]

For my family FP and Genie+ are equally terrible. We don't want to be told what time we can ride something. We aren't planners when it comes to vacations.

It's why we enjoy Universal more. It's very simple to visit. Book your hotel, flight, park tickets and buy Express pass. We don't need a spreadsheet to visit the park.

The reason I said what I said is that we know more capacity isn't changing anytime soon. The only solution is to lower the amount of people using the system each day.

And honestly im not buying that either bc then people will be in standby and yes i watched the Doc on it…. Lines are not magically disappearing sorry to break the news to everyone

 

[Willmark]

The crazy part of all of this is Disney has no way to solve it and no one to blame but themselves.

The only thing they can do? Jack up prices to thin the herds at the paddock.

MMMMMMOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[Trauma]

So I don’t know if this is a crazy idea or not but why not just charge $$$ for DAS?

Sure the family that only comes once a year will still abuse it. But locals are not going to want to have to pay for it every time they go to the park.

Most importantly Disney gets to make more money, and that’s all they really care about.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

So I don’t know if this is a crazy idea or not but why not just charge $$$ for DAS?

Sure the family that only comes once a year will still abuse it. But locals are not going to want to have to pay for it every time they go to the park.

Most importantly Disney gets to make more money, and that’s all they really care about.

Other than the legal hurdles of trying to charge for reasonable accommodations that are required by law, you think the solution is the PR disaster of charging people extra who have disabilities?

 

[Dranth]

Everyone is trying to come up with different excuses and reasons to blame everything but the obvious. Disney is the reason this has happened lack of capacity intentionally may i add reduced hours reduced entertainment etc. The hate and to me over exaggeration of DAS abuse is comical.

I'm sorry, but when is abusing a system meant to help people in need a valid response to anything? Not enough capacity so let's lie about little Timmy having a medical condition so we can skip the lines! That is not a Disney problem, that is a human problem.

Also, you say the abuse is over exaggerated. What proof do you have?

On the other side we have insiders here with a pretty good track record who say otherwise. We also have history that shows that these kinds of system have been abused in the past and not just at Disney. It is why ALL these companies have to keep changing them.

I know it's Disneys fault due to lack of capacity and reduced hours.

Same as above. Disney should absolutely have more capacity, but that isn't an excuse for people to behave like spoiled children. That is like me saying it's okay for me to park in a handicap spot because there isn't enough parking at the local store.

 

[Purduevian]

Personally yes i do. Im paying for a service like everyone else is and im using a system that i need that Disney offers. So to me there is nothing wrong with it… how would telling someone they cant buy Genie eliminate abuse?

I would argue in the balancing of equities it would be more unfair to not let this happen.

G+ is a completely separate purchase, with its own restrictions on when you make reservations. I get to make G+ reservations when i am standing in line, and if it just so happens that within my grace period for checking it, I am still in line for something else, i can finish that ride, then walk onto my G+ reservation. Why should someone who paid the G+ fee, not only have to follow all the G+ restrictions, but also not get to redeem G+ while they are waiting return time?

I think there was a little confusion, I am not suggesting that DAS can't use G+ at all, just that it align more with a non-DAS users experience.

For example, as a non-DAS user If I have a LL return time in the next 15 minutes, I cannot hop into a 90 minutes standby line and still expect to make my LL.

However, as a DAS user if I have a LL return time in the next 15 minutes, I can reserve a DAS time for 80 minutes from now, and still make my LL.

Again, I am not sure if this should be allowed, but a DAS user could in theory be much more effective touring than a non-DAS user because they can redeem a LL while waiting in the "Standby" line. Thats why I feel like eliminating this would reduce abuse.

From my perspective (a non-DAS user), the DAS return times are meant to be a substitute for waiting in the Standby line without physically standing in the standby line. A non-DAS user cannot redeem a LL while in a standby line (you can make reservations, modify those reservations yes, but not redeem a LL).

 

[Jrb1979]

And honestly im not buying that either bc then people will be in standby and yes i watched the Doc on it…. Lines are not magically disappearing sorry to break the news to everyone

It's not about making the lines disappear. It's making those who use Genie+ worth their while and making standby not be a crawl all day long.

Disney created the mindset that waiting in line is bad. IMO it's part of going to a park. Yes there is options for lower waits but that should cost you big bucks if you want have it.

 

[Brian]

locals are not going to want to have to pay for it every time they go to the park.

Locals have legitimate disabilities too.

 

[Splash4eva]

It's not about making the lines disappear. It's making those who use Genie+ worth their while and making standby not be a crawl all day long.

Disney created the mindset that waiting in line is bad. IMO it's part of going to a park. Yes there is options for lower waits but that should cost you big bucks if you want have it.

I hate admit this but ive had pleasantly great success with Genie sans the 1st year using it but i understand peoples gripes and yea waiting in lines are 100% part of theme parka. Always has been always will be

 

[Splash4eva]

I think there was a little confusion, I am not suggesting that DAS can't use G+ at all, just that it align more with a non-DAS users experience.

For example, as a non-DAS user If I have a LL return time in the next 15 minutes, I cannot hop into a 90 minutes standby line and still expect to make my LL.

However, as a DAS user if I have a LL return time in the next 15 minutes, I can reserve a DAS time for 80 minutes from now, and still make my LL.

Again, I am not sure if this should be allowed, but a DAS user could in theory be much more effective touring than a non-DAS user because they can redeem a LL while waiting in the "Standby" line. Thats why I feel like eliminating this would reduce abuse.

From my perspective (a non-DAS user), the DAS return times are meant to be a substitute for waiting in the Standby line without physically standing in the standby line. A non-DAS user cannot redeem a LL while in a standby line (you can make reservations, modify those reservations yes, but not redeem a LL).

Listen as a DAS user am i at an “advantage” when it comes to rides yes and i would say ive also fine tuned the best way to use the system as well to maximize my day. I get the point of DAS is to “equal” the playing field for guests w/ no disabilities & people feel DAS users have an advantage but to me some do and others dont it all depends. Just like everything else. To limit DAS because people feel they are at an advantage is silly. I will say this tho and they probably cant bc of legal but i would limit 1 ride per day maybe 2 max. And im guilty of riding things multiple times via DAS

 

[Splash4eva]

I'm sorry, but when is abusing a system meant to help people in need a valid response to anything? Not enough capacity so let's lie about little Timmy having a medical condition so we can skip the lines! That is not a Disney problem, that is a human problem.

Also, you say the abuse is over exaggerated. What proof do you have?

On the other side we have insiders here with a pretty good track record who say otherwise. We also have history that shows that these kinds of system have been abused in the past and not just at Disney. It is why ALL these companies have to keep changing them.


Same as above. Disney should absolutely have more capacity, but that isn't an excuse for people to behave like spoiled children. That is like me saying it's okay for me to park in a handicap spot because there isn't enough parking at the local store.

What proof can anyone have its getting abused? If Disney can prove it then they can literally not grant someone access to DAS. “Insiders” claim its being used in abundance but im sorry they cant “prove”’its being abused again if anyone can prove it Disney can easily ban yo from the parks if caught. Sadly people will abused any system to gain an advantage happens everywhere but to me that abused is not what is creating these long lines. I dk maybe its me but was Disney ever not busy with lines. Going back to when i was a kid to now a grown adult lnes have always existed.

 

[Trauma]

Locals have legitimate disabilities too.

So what’s the solution then?

I guess get rid of DAS altogether.

 

[Splash4eva]

So I don’t know if this is a crazy idea or not but why not just charge $$$ for DAS?

Sure the family that only comes once a year will still abuse it. But locals are not going to want to have to pay for it every time they go to the park.

Most importantly Disney gets to make more money, and that’s all they really care about.

My guess its probably illegal to charge for something that others get for free right? And anyone who needs DAS they would pay for it anyways especially the abusers. If anything those who legit need it may be offended and take their money elsewhere…

 

[Brian]

So what’s the solution then?

I guess get rid of DAS altogether.

Disney has an obligation as a place of "public accommodation" (a business that serves and welcomes the public) to provide accommodations (deviations in typical procedure) to guests with disabilities. In most cases, charging for such accommodations is not permissible, and obviously refusing to provide them altogether is also problematic.

The philosophy behind DAS is that you are allowing someone who cannot wait in a traditional standby queue to do their waiting somewhere else where they can wait without exacerbation of their condition(s). Where it gets abused is that some can indeed wait in the queue, and others go and fully abuse it by waiting in the standby queue for another attraction while waiting for their return time through DAS, allowing them to effectively be in "two places at once."

So if we consider that DAS allows the guest who cannot wait in a physical queue to wait elsewhere, Disney is accommodating that guest's disability and allowing them access to the attractions. If they were to remove this accommodation, or charge for it, they would be setting up a "barrier" to accessing the same attractions that the non-disabled guest is not subject to, likely resulting in a violation of the ADA.

The solution would likely look like increased scrutiny for applications, though this has been avoided in the past due to the potential of excluding some guests with legitimate disabilities because they did not bring supporting documentation with them on vacation.

 

[Andrew25]

The only legal/viable solution for DAS is making the process to acquire it difficult or require additional documentation ala Universal's program.

The DAS system itself operates fine, no need for changes there from an infrastructure perspective. I'd also have to imagine the impact on standby lines from DAS users being in "two queues at the same time" is far smaller than we'd imagine. The far larger issue is what happens when an attraction goes down for an hour or two, and then all those LL users and DAS come back to experience it later when it reopens.

 

[DisneyDodo]

There are two problems here that share a single solution: (a) people without a valid disability using DAS to obtain an advantage over other guests (i.e. by abusing the system), (b) people with a valid disability using DAS to obtain an advantage over other guests (i.e. by using the system the way it’s currently designed).

In theory, DAS is not meant to give disabled guests an extra advantage, but only to remove the disadvantage caused by their disability.

I’m sure this would present some logistical challenges, but the best approach would be to have guests scan their MBs upon entry to the standby line, which would automatically trigger forfeiture of any current DAS LL reservations. This way, regardless of whether you qualify for DAS, you can only wait in one standby line (real or virtual) at a given time. Similarly, if you have G+, redeeming a G+ LL would result in forfeiture of any current DAS LL.

There would no longer be any incentive to abuse the system by feigning a disability, as it would provide no advantage. And those who can’t wait in physical lines would continue to receive the necessary accommodations.

 

[SamusAranX]

The only legal/viable solution for DAS is making the process to acquire it difficult or require additional documentation ala Universal's program.

The DAS system itself operates fine, no need for changes there from an infrastructure perspective. I'd also have to imagine the impact on standby lines from DAS users being in "two queues at the same time" is far smaller than we'd imagine. The far larger issue is what happens when an attraction goes down for an hour or two, and then all those LL users and DAS come back to experience it later when it reopens.

When a ride closes down, the app deletes your DAS reservation, and you then have to rebook it with the listed wait time once it reopens, provided you don’t have another replacement DAS ride reservation in place already

 

[Trauma]

I mean I’m all for DAS. It’s just some posters here made it sound like it’s being abused so much that it’s ruining the standby experience for everyone else.

I have no idea what to believe so I’ll just shutup and hope for the best.

 

[Brian]

When a ride closes down, the app deletes your DAS reservation, and you then have to rebook it with the listed wait time once it reopens, provided you don’t have another replacement DAS ride reservation in place already

That is not quite accurate. When an attraction goes 101, you are given carte blanche to return to that attraction any time after your original return time should it reopen. You are also able to select a return time for a new attraction.

 

[Splash4eva]

When a ride closes down, the app deletes your DAS reservation, and you then have to rebook it with the listed wait time once it reopens, provided you don’t have another replacement DAS ride reservation in place already

This is incorrect…