Leave a Legacy Steals Souls!

[DMC-12]

Also... I wonder how many actually know who designed LaL? I bet many don't know or if they do, don't actually understand the history of the man. He was basically the primary designer of the master plans for many of the parks and many attractions. He brought to fruition the gradient changes of themes between the lands of Magic Kingdom. He designed Main Street, Cinderella Caste, Space Mountain and yes, even Spaceship Earth. In fact, the design of LaL was to enhance SSE and provide a grand movement of architecture for the entrance.

So, for all those "haters" out there... come back when you have a hundredth of his talent and experience.

Wow... bit harsh.

Anyway... I guess even the greatest of designers have a goose egg, every now and then. :shrug:

I am indifferent about LaL...kinda like I was about the wand for awhile. Then when the wand came down... I was like "wow... nice... much better, they should of taken it down years ago" .

 

[plpeters70]

Here's my biggest problem with the stones -- they darken what was once a very bright and cheerful entrance. You've got this gigantic, gray ball towering over you and then nothing but brown all around it... :hurl:

When the entrance was all trees and grass, Spaceship Earth looked bright and shiny. Now, without the grass and trees, it just looks dull. Look at the difference in color when you look at a picture of Spaceship earth taken from below the palm trees, and then look at one from the entrance -- the green helps make SE look brighter. They need to remove the stones and bring back all the trees, flowers and grass. (And brighten up that fountain -- enough brown already!! It's supposed to be the future, not the desert!!)

(The same problem has happened back in the Communicore Plaza - they removed all the green and now it looks dead and dull. Just look at my avatar and then compare with what's there today.)

 

[SDav10495]

Anyway... I guess even the greatest of designers have a goose egg, every now and then. :shrug:

Not only that--even some of the most revered modern architects go back and unwittingly detract from their own original work:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/26/a...=1&scp=3&sq=Oscar+Niemeyer&st=nyt&oref=slogin


Look, any way you slice it--whether you think John Hench had full creative reign over the LaL project or whether you think he was pressured from above to downgrade his design--the fact that Hench was also the original designer of Spaceship Earth is irrelevant. Like Oscar Niemeyer in the article above, Hench could truly be immensely proud of LaL for all I know--but the fact that he designed the slabs (or "designed", depending on where you stand) still doesn't automatically make them an appropriate visual companion to Spaceship Earth or addition to the entrance plaza.

So now it's once again back to being a matter of opinion: whether or not you, the guest, like the LaL slabs. And as a human being and lover of art and architecture, I personally love the fact that we can argue opinion till we're blue in the face--the Disney parks wouldn't be works of art if we couldn't debate their aesthetics, and the News & Rumors board has been pretty dead lately anyway. But please...no need to bring up John Hench again. His history as a designer adds nothing to anyone's argument. While I suspect that the finished product was not his true intention, it wouldn't matter even if it was. Everyone turns out a clunker now and then.

(And in response to the amusing question of whether the culprit was the interns or the executives--yes, the Hench-led team that designed LaL was a team of WDI interns. Yes, Disney management at the time was notorious for penny-pinching and, IMO, creative bankruptcy in the parks. I fail to see how those two are mutually exclusive. Personally, I just think it means poor John Hench had to deal with some hacks from above and below. :lookaroun )

 

[ChrisFL]

Who said Disney was a dictatorship. I simply said they CHANGE as does the rest of the world.Furthermore, you just proved my comments to be correct. You Hated the wand & was Happy when they took it down. So now you want to make everybody else miserable because something else you don't like is still around. Who's trying to be the Dictator now. :lol:

<rant>

I find these "Dictator" statements interesting, because if the reference to a dictator is implying that it's one person in charge who makes most of the decisions and makes things based on his own personal ideals, then wouldn't Walt Disney fit that image?

I mean, the structure may be the same as a dictatorship but it's what is done with that structure that can cause a good or bad outcome.

Ideally I prefer the idea of having smaller, private companies who have just a few dedicated people in charge with a singular goal or vision in mind. It's when these companies get bigger and become public and at the mercy of the shareholders that things become a problem.

Decisions are made by committee, marketing majors, and MBA's run around touting how they can save money and help the shareholders make more moeny and the business look better. They go for profit opportunities and whatever would have the most market appeal. Safe bets that can make the most money are the goal.

This also is bad for a company like Disney who is often run by people with no prior Disney history or experience, they go in thinking of it as another big marketing scheme

</rant>

 

[mousermerf]

Not to mention, Legacy doesn't match the concept art that was displayed prior to its opening. Disney and everyone was sold on one thing and as an actual entity it is another.

Yes, concept art is a concept, but Legacy looks nothing like the art - suggesting some dramatic changes were made at some point after it got funded.

And further - anyone who designs for theme parks realizes their work is not permanent. It's akin to theater - it will be shown for a while but eventually will be struck and never seen again.

 

[dismedic]

You've got this gigantic, gray ball towering over you and then nothing but brown all around it... :hurl:Spaceship Earth looked bright and shiny

OK so tell me SSE has not changed color so your post conflicts itself. Which is it bright and shiny or dull and grey? The surrounding do not change the color of SSE . It is still aluminum grey no changes . So what makes the entrance make a big difference with the color of SSE?

 

[mousermerf]

You've got this gigantic, gray ball towering over you and then nothing but brown all around it... :hurl:Spaceship Earth looked bright and shiny

OK so tell me SSE has not changed color so your post conflicts itself. Which is it bright and shiny or dull and grey? The surrounding do not change the color of SSE . It is still aluminum grey no changes . So what makes the entrance make a big difference with the color of SSE?

Physical color doesn't change but the perception of color in context does change. It's a commonly known (and artisticly exploited) phenomena.

Link: http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/illusions.htm

 

[wannab@dis]

Wow... bit harsh.

Anyway... I guess even the greatest of designers have a goose egg, every now and then. :shrug:

I am indifferent about LaL...kinda like I was about the wand for awhile. Then when the wand came down... I was like "wow... nice... much better, they should of taken it down years ago" .

Sorry... you're right. That didn't come out exactly as meant.

Someone can dislike it... again, that's fine. However, by "haters" I meant those that CONTINUALLY bash and whine and complain. I'm betting those are a very small group.. just seems they have decided to congregate around here with the resident purists.

 

[plpeters70]

Physical color doesn't change but the perception of color in context does change. It's a commonly known (and artisticly exploited) phenomena.

Link: http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/illusions.htm

Exactly.

I wish I had some example pictures of the entrance plaza past/present to show you the difference, but it's definitely there. The whole plaza is just less vibrant than it used to be -- you'd be amazed the difference some green grass can make to its surroundings.

 

[Sam Eagle 1776]

That would be fine improvement, nice avatar by the way.

 

[dismedic]

Exactly.

I wish I had some example pictures of the entrance plaza past/present to show you the difference, but it's definitely there. The whole plaza is just less vibrant than it used to be -- you'd be amazed the difference some green grass can make to its surroundings.

I was there two months after it opened so I truly do not need pics I have my own SSE pics from the months post opening , looks the same no difference even on the videos I have so well ,maybe I am just not a picaso I guess color is color , There was just open area walkways and whitish concrete with some grass and palms with the fountain with translucent I guess you could call it monolith in the center that had lights at night. One thing that is different is no smell of fresh concrete and paint

 

[DisneySaint]

I dont understand how its ok to take peoples money and then tear it down a few years later..

Uh, because when people gut one they were told they only were guaranteed to be up there so long. Fair is fair.

I swore, though, that the date was like 2012 or something, though. I could be wrong on that.

 

[ChrisFL]

As I mentioned in the comments section of the Reimagineering blog...the biggest problem I have with them is that the throughput is very bad ever since those things were added. You don't have a choice but to go around them...it's not open or inviting, they're in the way of progress, especially during opening and closing and the park is busy.

Now if they were off to the sides a bit more, maybe painted in, say, metallic blue, I wouldn't have such a problem with them and they wouldn't be hated so much IMO.

 

[PigletIsMyCat]

I just feel that there's too many of them. And they're too high. If they took away the really tall ones around the edges, and spaced out the rest of them, they'd still have room for all the pictures and it would open up the area a bit more. It does feel pretty congested.

I understand what Disney was going for with them, and I never saw Epcot without them, but I never really liked how they are arranged. I feel that there are too many and it's too crowded. I feel like there could be a more aesthetically pleasing way to arrange them.

 

[DMC-12]

Sorry... you're right. That didn't come out exactly as meant.

Someone can dislike it... again, that's fine. However, by "haters" I meant those that CONTINUALLY bash and whine and complain. I'm betting those are a very small group.. just seems they have decided to congregate around here with the resident purists.

Ah... ok.. I understand where you are coming from now.

Like I said, LaL can stay... or go... I wouldnt care either way. Sure the area is not the nice entrance as it was in the 80's. However, if it ever were to go... I would probably wind up in the same position as I was with the wand: glad to see it go. :shrug: But till then :shrug: whatever.

 

[IROC it]

Still Sad

Well, we're still sad that we didn't get in on the LaL thing...

I don't mind them - but I wouldn't mind them being moved either.

 

[DisneyWales]

We were told when we got our tiles, in that wonderful small print that:-

Our tile will be "On display within public access" for atleast 10 years after purchase. Disney can choose where this position is at their own free will.
But it will always be somewhere guests can freely get to.

If they need to move them, or clean/replace a tile they have upto 6 months in which to do so.

We got ours in 2003, so while that does show that Disney are free to move them whenever they want, it kinda hits that for financial reasons they wouldn't wanna move them until 10 (or 9.5 years) after the final tile was sold.

Yes i know it wont cost a massive amount to put up some boards somewhere to hang the tiles, but then they have to write to everyone to tell them that they have moved etc (also in the t&c). So personally i think the stones are with us for a little while longer.

Success or not, there not in the way, and there doing no harm, and its cheaper to leave them, than remove/re landscape and relocate all the tiles.

If they went tomorrow i wouldn't care, i like the entrance as it is now, i have two tiles, but also like to see Disney do new things in the park, so either way its a win win for me.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

They could put my tile in the ladies toilet, it might speed up their turn round time.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I honestly don't mind them...I would rather have the purple tarps gone 1st.

Can we EVER stop complaining?

 

[dxwwf3]

Anyway... I guess even the greatest of designers have a goose egg, every now and then. :shrug:

Exactly. The wand being gone is a much bigger deal, IMO. I've never really liked LaL, but I could live with them a lot easier than I could the wand. Hopefully the tombstones will come down sometime in the near future, but I don't think it is a huge deal. The most important beautification work has already been done.