Le Cellier vs Yachtsman's

[psukardi]

Wrong... When you are a nice place no matter where it is, you should act and respect people around you...A screaming child, no matter where it is, is wrong... WDW is for everybody not just kids....

You're wasting your breath. People will call you a monster before acknowledging that their precious snowflake is a terror in a resturaunt and you shouldn't have to deal with it. You'll get the laundry list of excuses of drunk 20-somethings or people on cell phones that are worse than Hitler when compared to a small innocent child at Disney. Thank god for Victoria & Albert's the one safe haven where you can have an adult dinner and an adult conversation and not have to worry about some 8 year old throwing a chicken finger & mommy just laughing because they are "special and pushing their boundaries"

 

[LuvtheGoof]

If you are looking for a great steak, then I would head over to Shula's. It's only a little farther walk to go to the Dolphin, and it is MUCH better than either of them! (IMHO)

 

[nicb88]

Alright so under this theory that one size does not fit all should adults not be allowed to go to any character meals because those restaurants should be designated for only those parties that have children 12 and under?

First of all, please step down from your high horse and stop attempting to shoehorn words into my mouth - I never said anything about adults not being able to attend and enjoy character dining - I never even mentioned character dining - just that it's clear that some places are better suited to children than others and when this is the case it's often that children can be bored/tired/frustrated and therefore can be (but not always are, as was pointed out) disruptive! Not only this, but I said one size fits all doesn't work all the time - most places it does, it is Disney after all. And by your reckoning, children should be allowed in Victoria and Albert's, so why don't you go tell Disney how wrong THEY are about this...

Furthermore, I clearly said people have the right to take their children wherever, especially at Disney World, but they have to take due consideration for their children - knowing their own children and knowing whether those children will behave/enjoy/want to be at such a restaurant is an important factor in my opinion. I have kids in my family - I work with kids in a profession which requires me to know what makes them tick, so I know how kids work. I also know fully that my brother, for example, would never take his son to a restaurant like Yachtsman while he is young because he would be bored silly and act out, spoiling not only their experience but that of those around them.

I also explicitly stated, in a response to another post, that many kids are a joy to have around in these environments, and without a doubt I love to see happy families dining together wherever it may be - but we all know that children can be unpredictable and it's about parents being responsible and thinking carefully about their choices. It might be Disney World, but you still have to think about what's best.

So yes, please, mold these words into whatever you want them to be once again. The only problem is anyone who reads what I wrote properly could see that I was voicing an opinion and that I made clear it's not a case of people being prevented from dining in certain locations. Just that Disney could be clearer about the ambiance/atmosphere and give a warning that some children may prefer dining somewhere a little livelier or family orientated. Again - this doesn't apply to everyone, so please, anyone who doesn't want to jump down my throat regardless, this last point is important!

 

[Abby's Daddy]

First of all, please step down from your high horse and stop attempting to shoehorn words into my mouth - I never said anything about adults not being able to attend and enjoy character dining - I never even mentioned character dining - just that it's clear that some places are better suited to children than others and when this is the case it's often that children can be bored/tired/frustrated and therefore can be (but not always are, as was pointed out) disruptive! Not only this, but I said one size fits all doesn't work all the time - most places it does, it is Disney after all. And by your reckoning, children should be allowed in Victoria and Albert's, so why don't you go tell Disney how wrong THEY are about this...

Furthermore, I clearly said people have the right to take their children wherever, especially at Disney World, but they have to take due consideration for their children - knowing their own children and knowing whether those children will behave/enjoy/want to be at such a restaurant is an important factor in my opinion. I have kids in my family - I work with kids in a profession which requires me to know what makes them tick, so I know how kids work. I also know fully that my brother, for example, would never take his son to a restaurant like Yachtsman while he is young because he would be bored silly and act out, spoiling not only their experience but that of those around them.

I also explicitly stated, in a response to another post, that many kids are a joy to have around in these environments, and without a doubt I love to see happy families dining together wherever it may be - but we all know that children can be unpredictable and it's about parents being responsible and thinking carefully about their choices. It might be Disney World, but you still have to think about what's best.

So yes, please, mold these words into whatever you want them to be once again. The only problem is anyone who reads what I wrote properly could see that I was voicing an opinion and that I made clear it's not a case of people being prevented from dining in certain locations. Just that Disney could be clearer about the ambiance/atmosphere and give a warning that some children may prefer dining somewhere a little livelier or family orientated. Again - this doesn't apply to everyone, so please, anyone who doesn't want to jump down my throat regardless, this last point is important!

I don't think Disney is wrong about V&A. I understand the position on V&A and have no problem with it. Nor do I think you are wrong that people have to take consideration for their children. My suggestion about character dining was based on your suggestion that Disney tell people that Yachtsman is not a family friendly restaurant. The point being is if you want Disney to do that, why shouldn't Disney then issue a warning about character dining. I think Disney does a decent job on their website of describing the restaurants. I will go as far as to say if a person asks Disney employees they are usually pretty candid about it. For instance we were talking about Monsieur Paul in France with one of the dining agents and asked if it was child friendly because we heard it hadn't. She stated that while children were allowed at all restaurants except V&A she personally did not believe the menu at M&P was conducive for the typical child under 14. Short of that it is everybody's responsibility to make sure they are not disturbing others around them whether you have children or not.

 

[Abby's Daddy]

You're wasting your breath. People will call you a monster before acknowledging that their precious snowflake is a terror in a resturaunt and you shouldn't have to deal with it. You'll get the laundry list of excuses of drunk 20-somethings or people on cell phones that are worse than Hitler when compared to a small innocent child at Disney. Thank god for Victoria & Albert's the one safe haven where you can have an adult dinner and an adult conversation and not have to worry about some 8 year old throwing a chicken finger & mommy just laughing because they are "special and pushing their boundaries"

See this is the only attitude I think people take issue with like @stevehousse stated, the problem is the attitude that all children are going to be bad from the moment they sit down and that all parents will refuse to deal with a child's bad behavior. I more than understand that the whole world doesn't have children for numerous reasons and I understand that while my child is the center of my universe she is certainly not the center of the entire world's universe and if she is acting inappropriately in a restaurant or anywhere else it is my responsibility to take care of her. But a child does not ruin a meal of the table next to them simply because he/she sat down at a table. If my child (god forbid) through a piece of chicken not only would she be removed from the table for a long discussion I would offer to buy the other tables dinner. It's the prejudgment of the child that I think is wrong.

 

[psukardi]

See this is the only attitude I think people take issue with like @stevehousse stated, the problem is the attitude that all children are going to be bad from the moment they sit down and that all parents will refuse to deal with a child's bad behavior. I more than understand that the whole world doesn't have children for numerous reasons and I understand that while my child is the center of my universe she is certainly not the center of the entire world's universe and if she is acting inappropriately in a restaurant or anywhere else it is my responsibility to take care of her. But a child does not ruin a meal of the table next to them simply because he/she sat down at a table. If my child (god forbid) through a piece of chicken not only would she be removed from the table for a long discussion I would offer to buy the other tables dinner. It's the prejudgment of the child that I think is wrong.

But that's the problem. For every good parent, and it seems like from what I've read that you do an awesome job and wish more people would, there are a ton of bad ones. Ones that go nose deaf to their surroundings and no long even process the fact that their special unique snowflake could possibly be a problem. If the aforementioned child throws a fit, the parent doesn't even attempt to defuse the situation. I know sometimes a kid screams and nothing is going to stop that meltdown once it hits critical mass; however, that doesn't mean I should have to listen to it. The parent, parenting, could take the child out of the restaurant.

I've witnessed this first hand at Le Cellier and the Brown Derby. Both of which aren't "exciting" places that would keep a little kid engaged.

Listen, I get it. Some kids are great dining out. If the kid is behaved, then awesome - they can sit next to me. I'll take a well behaved child over some loud mouthed jerk whom is on their cellphone talking loud enough for the world to know how self-absorbed they are. I'm just saying that there are problem children out there and it would be a breath of fresh air if there were a few more adult-only alternatives in the park. Rest In Peace Pleasure Island.

 

[nicb88]

I don't think Disney is wrong about V&A. I understand the position on V&A and have no problem with it. Nor do I think you are wrong that people have to take consideration for their children. My suggestion about character dining was based on your suggestion that Disney tell people that Yachtsman is not a family friendly restaurant. The point being is if you want Disney to do that, why shouldn't Disney then issue a warning about character dining. I think Disney does a decent job on their website of describing the restaurants. I will go as far as to say if a person asks Disney employees they are usually pretty candid about it. For instance we were talking about Monsieur Paul in France with one of the dining agents and asked if it was child friendly because we heard it hadn't. She stated that while children were allowed at all restaurants except V&A she personally did not believe the menu at M&P was conducive for the typical child under 14. Short of that it is everybody's responsibility to make sure they are not disturbing others around them whether you have children or not.

And I never said anything to contradict what you just stated. The fact it is 'character dining' gives a very good impression of what you can expect from the restaurant - much better than the word 'signature', which several people whom I know believed was only described as such due to the 2 point DDP requirement (which I know isn't the case) - and I'm sure because of the blatant labelling as 'character', MANY adults choose not to dine at such an establishment. Unfortunately, signature restaurants are not always described in the same fitting manner as I state (even with the tag 'signature'), and therefore parents are either unable to make the right decisions or ignore any 'warning'.

I also never said that Disney should not say that Yachtsman is not 'family friendly', but perhaps if they were to say something, it could be along the lines of 'Although we happily welcome all guests to enjoy the Yachstman and hope you choose to dine with us, this is a subdued environment that you may not feel appropriate for a younger family' (don't go twisting the words I used here like with other things I've said, it's something I came up with in 2 seconds).

So, as I initially said, I feel Disney need to be more open about the way they 'sell' their restaurants, but at the same time, there are parents who despite any advice will ignore it and still take their kids knowing it's a bad idea. This is what I'm getting at - they need to be responsible. Not once did I say that EVERY parent was terrible and makes the wrong decisions. I also realise some kids are just naughty whatever the situation, the same way some kids behave wonderfully. I feel like you're reading far more into what I've said so you can defend what I'm not even arguing!

 

[Abby's Daddy]

But that's the problem. For every good parent, and it seems like from what I've read that you do an awesome job and wish more people would, there are a ton of bad ones. Ones that go nose deaf to their surroundings and no long even process the fact that their special unique snowflake could possibly be a problem. If the aforementioned child throws a fit, the parent doesn't even attempt to defuse the situation. I know sometimes a kid screams and nothing is going to stop that meltdown once it hits critical mass; however, that doesn't mean I should have to listen to it. The parent, parenting, could take the child out of the restaurant.

I've witnessed this first hand at Le Cellier and the Brown Derby. Both of which aren't "exciting" places that would keep a little kid engaged.

Listen, I get it. Some kids are great dining out. If the kid is behaved, then awesome - they can sit next to me. I'll take a well behaved child over some loud mouthed jerk whom is on their cellphone talking loud enough for the world to know how self-absorbed they are. I'm just saying that there are problem children out there and it would be a breath of fresh air if there were a few more adult-only alternatives in the park. Rest In Peace Pleasure Island.

To that end there is always Jelly Rolls.

 

[psukardi]

To that end there is always Jelly Rolls.

I don't want Jelly Roll's. I want the Adventurers Club back. Now excuse me while I scream loudly and kick the chair in front of me

 

[Abby's Daddy]

And I never said anything to contradict what you just stated. The fact it is 'character dining' gives a very good impression of what you can expect from the restaurant - much better than the word 'signature', which several people whom I know believed was only described as such due to the 2 point DDP requirement (which I know isn't the case) - and I'm sure because of the blatant labelling as 'character', MANY adults choose not to dine at such an establishment. Unfortunately, signature restaurants are not always described in the same fitting manner as I state (even with the tag 'signature'), and therefore parents are either unable to make the right decisions or ignore any 'warning'.

I also never said that Disney should not say that Yachtsman is not 'family friendly', but perhaps if they were to say something, it could be along the lines of 'Although we happily welcome all guests to enjoy the Yachstman and hope you choose to dine with us, this is a subdued environment that you may not feel appropriate for a younger family' (don't go twisting the words I used here like with other things I've said, it's something I came up with in 2 seconds).

So, as I initially said, I feel Disney need to be more open about the way they 'sell' their restaurants, but at the same time, there are parents who despite any advice will ignore it and still take their kids knowing it's a bad idea. This is what I'm getting at - they need to be responsible. Not once did I say that EVERY parent was terrible and makes the wrong decisions. I also realise some kids are just naughty whatever the situation, the same way some kids behave wonderfully. I feel like you're reading far more into what I've said so you can defend what I'm not even arguing!

I think we might both be talking over each other. I think there is a lot we actually agree on regarding the responsibility of each parent. As I have stated I think the only attitude parents don't like is the prejudging of children and while I understand you think there should be a "warning" about Yachtsman's environment no matter how nice Disney puts it, it will come off as insulting to some people, which is the last thing Disney, which is an essentially a service industry as far as WDW is concerned would want. I think that is why you don't get statements like that. Ultimately the goal is just to say all are welcome.

 

[Abby's Daddy]

I don't want Jelly Roll's. I want the Adventurers Club back. Now excuse me while I scream loudly and kick the chair in front of me

I unfortunately cannot sympathize with you. There was a good 20 year period in my life where I stopped going to Disney. Went every year as a kid until I was about 12 and didn't go back until I was 32 in 2009. That being said since going back in 2009 this will our 6th time. So I missed the Pleasure Island years. I have however have done Disney as both an adult without a kid and with a kid. It is true when people say they are entirely different experiences.

 

[nicb88]

I think we might both be talking over each other. I think there is a lot we actually agree on regarding the responsibility of each parent. As I have stated I think the only attitude parents don't like is the prejudging of children and while I understand you think there should be a "warning" about Yachtsman's environment no matter how nice Disney puts it, it will come off as insulting to some people, which is the last thing Disney, which is an essentially a service industry as far as WDW is concerned would want. I think that is why you don't get statements like that. Ultimately the goal is just to say all are welcome.

As I've said, what I put took a few seconds to come up with. I'm sure Disney, with their teams of professionals and such, and with a good amount of time, could come up with a great way of saying 'this is how it is, just to say, so you can make the decision best for you and other guests'. It's not prejudging kids, it's asking parents to take into account how they know their child generally behaves in certain situations. I'm not expecting them to say 'If you have a kid who likes to scream at every meal then you know where to go'. There's nothing insulting if worded correctly and politely. It's not like you're making personal jibes.. And I'd say whoever is offended by something like that could well be overlooking the fact that there are people that aren't in their personal situation - what about the parties of adults who want a lovely, peaceful meal at a 'signature restaurant' (I don't generally class places like CRT in this category given their nature and theme park location), purposely not going to a Character experience (to tie in to the previous points) and are then disturbed by 1 or 2 unhappy kids who just aren't enjoying it? It is 'well forget you, families are what're important so you have to suffer'? I sincerely hope not - it's here where the parents then come in and should be able to think carefully about their situation at that point.

Despite it being my favourite place in the world, I feel WDW has undeniably shifted further away from catering for 'all' for catering for kids (digressing slightly, you can see this in the character overlays at attractions such as The Seas). And while Disney is mainly in the children's/family entertainment game, in the past I don't feel that was the case. Hence they push more and more the 'everywhere must be family friendly' mantra. While in most places at the World it works, it's just life that it doesn't work everywhere. Even Disney can't fix that!

 

[Mr Anderson]

And we've been to restaurants with 12-13 year olds that would have done better with a nice bowl on the floor.

That is the PERFECT way of putting it! I know exactly the kind of behavior you're talking about; I referenced it in one of my earlier posts, and so did someone else (not sure who, but they mentioned a kid throwing their chicken breast onto his table). Good word choice, sir. I'm gonna have to steal that one!

 

[Abby's Daddy]

As I've said, what I put took a few seconds to come up with. I'm sure Disney, with their teams of professionals and such, and with a good amount of time, could come up with a great way of saying 'this is how it is, just to say, so you can make the decision best for you and other guests'. It's not prejudging kids, it's asking parents to take into account how they know their child generally behaves in certain situations. I'm not expecting them to say 'If you have a kid who likes to scream at every meal then you know where to go'. There's nothing insulting if worded correctly and politely. It's not like you're making personal jibes.. And I'd say whoever is offended by something like that could well be overlooking the fact that there are people that aren't in their personal situation - what about the parties of adults who want a lovely, peaceful meal at a 'signature restaurant' (I don't generally class places like CRT in this category given their nature and theme park location), purposely not going to a Character experience (to tie in to the previous points) and are then disturbed by 1 or 2 unhappy kids who just aren't enjoying it? It is 'well forget you, families are what're important so you have to suffer'? I sincerely hope not - it's here where the parents then come in and should be able to think carefully about their situation at that point.

Despite it being my favourite place in the world, I feel WDW has undeniably shifted further away from catering for 'all' for catering for kids (digressing slightly, you can see this in the character overlays at attractions such as The Seas). And while Disney is mainly in the children's/family entertainment game, in the past I don't feel that was the case. Hence they push more and more the 'everywhere must be family friendly' mantra. While in most places at the World it works, it's just life that it doesn't work everywhere. Even Disney can't fix that!

To some extent you are right. Disney doesn't care, all money is green. Which is partially why Disney will never say something like you want them to. They are not going to turn away cash and again steer families or any group away from certain restaurants. That will only serve to harm the restaurants bottom line.

I have to disagree though with your point that Disney says "forget you" to families without children. Disney is an equal opportunity offender when it comes to that issue. If you went to the same hotel in NY year in and year out for 10 years running it is virtually guaranteed not only would they know your name they would offer you a perk or two along the way. Disney does not distinguish the 10X repeat customer from the first time customer. Don't expect Disney to offer a 10 year guest any discount above what they offering to the first year guest. They don't distinguish the deluxe guest from the moderate or value guest. Each guest is for the most part subjected to the same dining rules 180 days out. Moreover, the concierge are not really a true concierge. You are not going to get a day of reservation at BOG by simply trying to give a concierge a tip. They have essentially tried to level the playing field for all guests. The only guests they seem to be discriminating against lately is the onsite vs. offsite guest with different fastpass+ rules. The only reason they do that is to get you to pay to stay onsite.

But even if Disney does cater to families with children over adults who go without children you really can't blame them. After all children are where the merchandising money is. I read recently that as far as ratings are concerned Disney Junior the TV channel would appear to be nothing short of a bust. However, the shows on the channel are a cash cow when it comes to the merchandise they sell related to Sophia, Jake and the like, which is why when overall ratings are not good Disney is still producing new shows to appear on the channel. Look you and I can have nice meal at Yachtsman and easily spend 200-300 in one night per couple but that money is a drop in the bucket compared to the Frozen and Sophia Merchandise I will buy over the course of a year for my daughter. Never underestimate the power of Daddy I want that.

I understand what you wrote was written in 2 minutes but when you are telling people even in the nicest ways you might want to reconsider this restaurant because you have kids no matter how nice you are thinking you are putting it someone will take it as you don't want me there and certainly you don't want that to be the family that plans to drop $500 or more this Christmas hunting down Frozen merchandise.

That being said I am under no delusion that Disney cares any more for my family than you. If I am not going to buy their merchandise this year or go to their parks there are plenty of others who will.

 

[nicb88]

To some extent you are right. Disney doesn't care, all money is green. Which is partially why Disney will never say something like you want them to. They are not going to turn away cash and again steer families or any group away from certain restaurants. That will only serve to harm the restaurants bottom line.

I have to disagree though with your point that Disney says "forget you" to families without children. Disney is an equal opportunity offender when it comes to that issue. If you went to the same hotel in NY year in and year out for 10 years running it is virtually guaranteed not only would they know your name they would offer you a perk or two along the way. Disney does not distinguish the 10X repeat customer from the first time customer. Don't expect Disney to offer a 10 year guest any discount above what they offering to the first year guest. They don't distinguish the deluxe guest from the moderate or value guest. Each guest is for the most part subjected to the same dining rules 180 days out. Moreover, the concierge are not really a true concierge. You are not going to get a day of reservation at BOG by simply trying to give a concierge a tip. They have essentially tried to level the playing field for all guests. The only guests they seem to be discriminating against lately is the onsite vs. offsite guest with different fastpass+ rules. The only reason they do that is to get you to pay to stay onsite.

But even if Disney does cater to families with children over adults who go without children you really can't blame them. After all children are where the merchandising money is. I read recently that as far as ratings are concerned Disney Junior the TV channel would appear to be nothing short of a bust. However, the shows on the channel are a cash cow when it comes to the merchandise they sell related to Sophia, Jake and the like, which is why when overall ratings are not good Disney is still producing new shows to appear on the channel. Look you and I can have nice meal at Yachtsman and easily spend 200-300 in one night per couple but that money is a drop in the bucket compared to the Frozen and Sophia Merchandise I will buy over the course of a year for my daughter. Never underestimate the power of Daddy I want that.

I understand what you wrote was written in 2 minutes but when you are telling people even in the nicest ways you might want to reconsider this restaurant because you have kids no matter how nice you are thinking you are putting it someone will take it as you don't want me there and certainly you don't want that to be the family that plans to drop $500 or more this Christmas hunting down Frozen merchandise.

That being said I am under no delusion that Disney cares any more for my family than you. If I am not going to buy their merchandise this year or go to their parks there are plenty of others who will.

I can see we agree on many points including that its all about money and that they give far more benefits to people staying onsite, but once again you're bringing into this discussion things that I haven't even said and saying I'm wrong to say them - I never said they actually say 'forget you', I was simply hypothesising that it can feel that way when families are prioritised - and they often are - above parties without children.

And I can blame them for prioritising families over adult parties - why should we be lower down the list just because we don't bring children with us? Our money is just as good as anyone's with children and we definitely spend just as much, just in different places on different things - no I don't want Frozen merchandise but I will spend a heck of a lot on great meals/alcohol/spas/shows, etc.!

Nor would it be a case of telling families to reconsider the restaurant or that they don't want their custom, just a more open explanation of the tone of the restaurant might help families decide 'actually, he/she might not be very good here' (or conversely 'yeah it'll be fine!'). The woman in the restaurant whose child threw chicken on my table even said 'I wish we'd picked somewhere else for him' to her dining partners, so it shows that there's something not getting across to parents who're making decisions on where to eat.

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree - it feels to me that you don't understand, or try to understand, the POV of the groups of us that visit WDW without kids. Maybe you do, and it's just the parent speaking - but if that is the case, sit back for an hour and think what it's like to be on the other side of it all! I'm not going to respond to this argument any more because you're adamant that I'm wrong and you're right and that there's no middle ground for this. It's pointless.

 

[psukardi]

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree - it feels to me that you don't understand, or try to understand, the POV of the groups of us that visit WDW without kids. Maybe you do, and it's just the parent speaking - but if that is the case, sit back for an hour and think what it's like to be on the other side of it all! I'm not going to respond to this argument any more because you're adamant that I'm wrong and you're right and that there's no middle ground for this. It's pointless.

Like I said earlier, waste of breath. IF you don't have kids - you're horrible for even complaining or suggesting alternatives.

 

[coachwnh]

Boy did this thread get hijacked and turn ugly

 

[Mr Anderson]

Boy did this thread get hijacked and turn ugly

Yeah, after a while I gave up and ended up looking for "How to rename your thread" instructions, but couldn't find them.

 

[cw1982]

Yeah, after a while I gave up and ended up looking for "How to rename your thread" instructions, but couldn't find them.

I think, from the screen where you normally edit a post, you'd click "advanced options."

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Despite the pro/anti-kids digression, thanks for this conversation - just booked our first reservation for Yachtsman's Steakhouse next month!