Late FP Returns Tightening Up?

[Vernonpush]

Of course you just let them pass! What do you expect the policy to be? Demand a doctor's note to allow guests to pass? The policy is always not to give the guest a hard time, but the purpose of this FP policy is to allow guests to enter if they were delayed. If they wanted guests to just enter whenever they please after a given point, they would save themselves money on ink and make the FP smaller to save money on paper and just write "enter any time after 3 pm."



Yes, because, of course, people are never actually responsible for their actions--it is those in charge who must keep people from doing things out of control, right? I love America. Do whatever you can to git 'er done until someone says "no".
That leaves way too much to the CM's discretion, and suddenly the CM becomes the bad guy. "Oh, I'm sorry...sure, your FP said you need to enter b/t 2 and 3 pm, but in reality, that was a lie--you needed to enter between 2 and 5 pm. I don't care that your grandma died, that's just how it is." They need a blanket policy--either you can always enter after a given time (but still on a given day) or you must return within the listed timeframe. FP was designed, from the start, as a guest control mechanism to prevent the waxing and waning in wait times that used to occur--spread guests out throughout the day so that waits can be manageable, and by having "invisible" guests in the queue line, they can be out eating and in the gift shops (plus, Disney can make smaller, cheaper queues for future attractions). Have an open-ended end time sacrifices that guest control, and it gets more and more out of hand as this loophole becomes more publicized.

I think that's the problem.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Yes it is an assumption. And I did read your entire post. And why, in your condescending response, didn't you post the back of the ticket, which is where the debate lies? We all know that Soarin has had queue problems from the start, which is due to its enormous popularity and extremely limited hourly capacity (when compared to that level of popularity), not any suspected abuse of FP. As for the rest, well, read the rest of my post.

I'm merely stating that if a last hour of the day problem in fact existed, the UG wouldn't continue to recommend it as an alternative for headliners. If a problem existed throughout the day where the FP queue's were brimming with people to the point that they unnaturally affected stand by wait times, the UG and other planning sites would not advocate their late usage. Again, the goal is to have little or no line. If the FP queue is long enough to affect stand by waits, then it's longer than they want their readers standing in.

What's your point? "Please enter the FASTPASS entrance at the attraction between the times noted on the other side." Very plain, simple English. Condescending as I may be, I simply see no gray area on the front or back of the Fastpass. Disney uses very precise wording.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Yes, because, of course, people are never actually responsible for their actions--it is those in charge who must keep people from doing things out of control, right? I love America. Do whatever you can to git 'er done until someone says "no".

I'll differ with your use of the phrase "out of control" in this instance, but overall, yes, it IS Disney's responsibility to keep people from doing things in their parks if they're causing problems...or at the very least, advertise the fact (if fact it be) that there IS a problem to begin with.

Disney regulates everything to do with their parks, from which parking space you can use to which pathways you can walk on. If there's something they DON'T want you to do (i.e., dangle your arms out of a ride, smoke on the monorail, take photos of the Yeti), they go out of their way to say "don't do this." Is it so hard to conceive that the average person would assume that if DISNEY says you can ride this ride with a late Fastpass that it's OK to do it? Is it just beyond the realm of comprehension that a well-meaning productive citizen would hear Joe Cast Member say "sure you can come on with that Fastpass" and just assume it MUST be OK to do so, out of nothing more than a sense of going with the flow? It isn't to me.

I think at bottom, we have a fundamental disagreement on the mindset of the people who do this. Neither of us is going to see it differently, so I'm willing to let it lie from here. Feel free to state your piece.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I think at bottom, we have a fundamental disagreement on the mindset of the people who do this. Neither of us is going to see it differently, so I'm willing to let it lie from here. Feel free to state your piece.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. We shall see if Disney is indeed changing the policy--I have seen no verification of that.

 

[slappy magoo]

What's your point? "Please enter the FASTPASS entrance at the attraction between the times noted on the other side." Very plain, simple English. Condescending as I may be, I simply see no gray area on the front or back of the Fastpass. Disney uses very precise wording.

Some people (not me) seem to be arguing that, because Disney is tacky enough to use the word "please," it is actually a request, and not a condition, to using FastPass.

Maybe, if WDW is starting to crack the whip on enforcing time windows, they need to change the back to state "This Fastpass only valid during times posted on the front." Cuts out any vagaries.

 

[Epcotian]

I think a lot of information can be gained from looking at the rules on the back of the FPs.

*Please enter the attraction between the times noted.
*Cannot accept early arrivals.
*Valid only on date printed.

Applying these rules, I would argue that the first statement is only a request for two reasons (the use of the word "please," and the fact that the second rule goes on to clearly prohibit early use). This would imply that late use is okay as long as it is on the same day.

This is the reason I wanted the back posted as well. We can all try to "assume" what is meant here, but the fact is Disney is very good at the legal side of things. If their intention was that a late same day use of FP is to be considered an abuse of the system, their very excellent legal minds would not have worded the pass this way.

My larger point was that no problems are in fact being caused by the planned use of late FP's or those who advise others for a living would not advocate their usage. They're sending their clients into short FP lines, not ones that are long enough to back up stand by lines. Again, if the FP lines were long enough to be a problem for stand by guests, they wouldn't want their clients in them if they wanted them to continue to be clients for their next trip.

 

[cubes]

Some people (not me) seem to be arguing that, because Disney is tacky enough to use the word "please," it is actually a request, and not a condition, to using FastPass.

Maybe, if WDW is starting to crack the whip on enforcing time windows, they need to change the back to state "This Fastpass only valid during times posted on the front." Cuts out any vagaries.

That is only the weak half of the argument. The strong half is the fact that Disney used a request and a clear prohibition to limit early use and merely a request for late use. In contract law, it is quite clear that such phrasing severely limits the power of the request to limit late use. The point I'm getting at is their LACK of a strong prohibition of late use in the presents of a strong prohibition of early use.

 

[slappy magoo]

That is only the weak half of the argument. The strong half is the fact that Disney used a request and a clear prohibition to limit early use and merely a request for late use. In contract law, it is quite clear that such phrasing severely limits the power of the request to limit late use. The point I'm getting at is their LACK of a strong prohibition of late use in the presents of a strong prohibition of early use.

Actually, I don't see any mention of late usage on the photo of the back of that particular FP ISTC... posted. Maybe I missed it, you tell me.

If that's a more-current FP, then maybe the wording has been recently changed, for the very reasons being argued here.

 

[jaydub]

Actually, I don't see any mention of late usage on the photo of the back of that particular FP ISTC... posted. Maybe I missed it, you tell me.

If that's a more-current FP, then maybe the wording has been recently changed, for the very reasons being argued here.

Ironically that was a fastpass from 2003!:lol:

 

[ToTBellHop]

Ironically that was a fastpass from 2003!:lol:

nope. They aren't the same. You'll notice the front is RnRC. The back is clearly Test Track.

 

[cubes]

Actually, I don't see any mention of late usage on the photo of the back of that particular FP ISTC... posted. Maybe I missed it, you tell me.

If that's a more-current FP, then maybe the wording has been recently changed, for the very reasons being argued here.

Yep. The wording I'm talking about is from FPs from 2007--just a few months ago. It's quoted in previous posts. The photo shown is an old one.

 

[slappy magoo]

nope. They aren't the same. You'll notice the front is RnRC. The back is clearly Test Track.

Anyone have any idea how old that TT FastPass was? Older than this year?

 

[slappy magoo]

Yep. The wording I'm talking about is from FPs from 2007--just a few months ago. It's quoted in previous posts. The photo shown is an old one.

As someone else has pointed out, the back of the FP comes from a different FP than the one photographed from the front. It might still be an older FP than this year, though. I just don't know. Ironically, if the photo of the FP back is old, it seems that it has wording that makes more sense if they want to start enforcing the time window.

 

[ToTBellHop]

No one has current Fastpasses? Haha...I unfortunately lack the luxery of going to Disney at will :-(

 

[Sumshine 904]

This stinks. Does this mean if my FP return is 2:30 pm I can't get in later at 4:00 pm? (just an example) I'd always do that with FPs, as do my other family members, and it'd really stink if I can't do it anymore. There's alot to see and do while waiting for a FP return, and sometimes I even forget I have them. XD; But anyway, it'd stink if I couldn't do that anymore.

 

[slappy magoo]

This stinks. Does this mean if my FP return is 2:30 pm I can't get in later at 4:00 pm? (just an example) I'd always do that with FPs, as do my other family members, and it'd really stink if I can't do it anymore. There's alot to see and do while waiting for a FP return, and sometimes I even forget I have them. XD; But anyway, it'd stink if I couldn't do that anymore.

If they really are starting to enforce the time windows, then yes, that's what it means. If it'll make you feel any better, I'm sure they're not trying to be personal about it. The system just probably works better (esp. at peak times and busy seasons) when people use Fastpass as it was designed to be used. And so nobody has to make judgment calls about when the rules ought to be enforced and when CMs can be lenient, it might just be a blanket enforcement of the policy.

 

[Sumshine 904]

If they really are starting to enforce the time windows, then yes, that's what it means. If it'll make you feel any better, I'm sure they're not trying to be personal about it. The system just probably works better (esp. at peak times and busy seasons) when people use Fastpass as it was designed to be used. And so nobody has to make judgment calls about when the rules ought to be enforced and when CMs can be lenient, it might just be a blanket enforcement of the policy.

I guess you're right. Thank you.

 

[Cattman96]

I know its tough but they really need to make it a black and white issue. You can't have some rides where you enforce the time and others where you are lenient, or a time of day where they enforce it and a time where they don't. Specifically state the intention of the FP. Don't expect a guest that has been coming back anytime after stated period to no longer be able to use th FP at a later date. Also, for the people that are coming back late, there would be no "argument" about a misleading statement on the FP. Or, leave it as is and let people come back later. One way or the other.

 

[lentesta]

An update: we'll have people testing FASTPASSes in all four parks throughout this weekend to test. Will report results here.

I agree that the policy itself doesn't matter as much as whether Disney enforces it consistently.

Len

 

[ToTBellHop]

testing Fastpasses? What does that mean. I'm pretty sure they still work...although they may still be down in the MK...