News Lasseter taking leave of absence

[Angel Ariel]

I didn't say "in general", I gave very specific context to his situation in particular. That was but one factor. Folks seem to have read what I said as "he's just old", which if was my point I would have said in a lot fewer words.

That may seem crazy, but he is an old man. From a much different time. To him, he was being affectionate to people. If you asked him, he would probably tell you that he respects, admires, and supports women, very much. I know that may sound ridiculous - how could he not realize what a terrible, awful person he was being?

This is a generalized statement about the time in which Lasseter comes from. Followed up with because of him being from that different time, he thought he was just being affectionate. This is what I'm calling Bull on. I don't think most people from that "much different time" you refer to see the behavior that has been described in the various articles that have come out so far as innocent.

Yes, you made other points after this as well, and I agree with you that people going to great lengths to shelter him from any consequences from his actions is a large part of the problem. I don't for a second, though, believe that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

As I said, I'm no SJW. I'm not out to scrub him from the company's history. He has had a tremendous impact not just on Disney and Pixar, but on animation as a whole. That cannot, and should not, be denied. But using age to excuse his actions - in any amount - is wrong.

 

[AEfx]

I know I'm butting into your conversation with Angel Ariel, but that is true. That is the one part that I have cringed at every time I read it in the articles. Basically someone reported (not word for word but basically) that they believed that if her arm wasn't positioned the way it was that his hand would have gone higher up her thigh and now that speculation is getting reported as if it was a fact. The things that people are saying he actually did are bad enough.

I don't think it was Angel's intention, but I do agree that the general people just look for the key words and then run with it. It's one thing for individuals innocently doing it, but when journalists are doing it, it's really an issue. It's similar to the kissing thing. Yes, ew, gross, bad behavior to kiss someone on the lips, not appropriate, but when you read some of the stuff said, it's like he was grabbing women by the face and forcing his tongue down their throats while they were struggling to get away.

Unfortunately, making these distinctions is seen as excusing the behavior entirely, which obviously isn't the case - but that's the internet.

 

[AEfx]

This is a generalized statement about the time in which Lasseter comes from. Followed up with because of him being from that different time, he thought he was just being affectionate. This is what I'm calling Bull on.

I'm not going to keep arguing with your interpretation. You are selecting parts of a layered argument. /shrug

 

[bclane]

I don't think it was Angel's intention, but I do agree that the general people just look for the key words and then run with it. It's one thing for individuals innocently doing it, but when journalists are doing it, it's really an issue. It's similar to the kissing thing. Yes, ew, gross, bad behavior to kiss someone on the lips, not appropriate, but when you read some of the stuff said, it's like he was grabbing women by the face and forcing his tongue down their throats while they were struggling to get away.

Unfortunately, making these distinctions is seen as excusing the behavior entirely, which obviously isn't the case - but that's the internet.

Yeah, I definitely don't think Angel was doing that. My criticism was directed at that one aspect of that article. However, I also think that kissing women on the mouth, that are not your girlfriend/wife, is completely out of normal social bounds. I grew up in Miami and so I am used to greeting people with a hug and a kiss on the cheek...but never would I have ever thought in my life that I could just greet friends or co-workers with a kiss on the mouth. Combine that with the other stuff being reported and there is no doubt in my mind that he was creating a work environment that was very hostile towards women.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm not going to keep arguing with your interpretation. You are selecting parts of a layered argument. /shrug

No, I'm not. I acknowledged the other parts of your argument, actually. I'm just disagreeing with one aspect of your argument.

 

[AEfx]

No, I'm not. I acknowledged the other parts of your argument, actually. I'm just disagreeing with one aspect of your argument.

In my view, you took one thing that was a factor of what I was discussing, applied it as a generality saying I was making a claim that was not my intention to make as I was discussing this as a whole. Perhaps I was unclear, but I have explained what it was my intention to say, and it is bordering on pedantic at this point. You can either accept it, or don't.

In any case, folks are free to interpret what I said any way they choose. Not that they need my permission, of course - I am simply stating a fact. (Just to be clear...) Maybe he is a horrible, awful, hateful disgusting pervert who deserves to be hung in the streets. Like I said, I couldn't have picked the guy out of a line up a week ago, nor really told you what he did aside from work at Pixar (of which all I really know about Pixar itself is really what appears in the parks - I have only seen a small handful of the films). I was attempting to respond to how upset and hurt people seem to be about this, and trying to offer a different way to look at it.

 

[AEfx]

Yeah, I definitely don't think Angel was doing that. My criticism was directed at that one aspect of that article. However, I also think that kissing women on the mouth, that are not your girlfriend/wife, is completely out of normal social bounds. I grew up in Miami and so I am used to greeting people with a hug and a kiss on the cheek...but never would I have ever thought in my life that I could just greet friends or co-workers with a kiss on the mouth. Combine that with the other stuff being reported and there is no doubt in my mind that he was creating a work environment that was very hostile towards women.

I didn't say it wasn't. /sigh

I said the way people are talking about it is as if he was forcefully grabbing women, holding them down and forcing his tongue down their throats, not just standing there while he did it and by all accounts so far, no one said "stop that".

Ugh, you will have to excuse me - I'm bowing out of this topic because frankly I've wasted enough time talking about a man that I couldn't give a turd about to begin with, LOL.

 

[bclane]

I didn't say it wasn't. /sigh

I said the way people are talking about it is as if he was forcefully grabbing women, holding them down and forcing his tongue down their throats, not just standing there while he did it and by all accounts so far, no one said "stop that".

Ugh, you will have to excuse me - I'm bowing out of this topic because frankly I've wasted enough time talking about a man that I couldn't give a turd about to begin with, LOL.

I know you didn’t say it wasn’t and I wasnt attacking your post actually I was just basically trying to make the point (to whoever is reading in here) that even though He wasn’t forcing his tongue down co-workers throats as you say, that even just mouth kissing is enough to create a hostile work environment....imo. Basically you raised a talking point and I was responding in a general sense. Anyway, one thing is clear and that is that no matter what any of us post in here, there is a high likelihood that it will be considered an attack on someone else even if it wasn’t intended that way. Nature of the topic I guess.

 

[Tick Tock]

Your links went nowhere...well nowhere relevant.

Pity. That was the best ford91exploder impersonation I could do when it comes to sharing real stories.

 

[Master Yoda]

Pity. That was the best ford91exploder impersonation I could do when it comes to sharing real stories.

 

[Angel Ariel]

In my view, you took one thing that was a factor of what I was discussing, applied it as a generality saying I was making a claim that was not my intention to make as I was discussing this as a whole. Perhaps I was unclear, but I have explained what it was my intention to say, and it is bordering on pedantic at this point. You can either accept it, or don't.

In any case, folks are free to interpret what I said any way they choose. Not that they need my permission, of course - I am simply stating a fact. (Just to be clear...) Maybe he is a horrible, awful, hateful disgusting pervert who deserves to be hung in the streets. Like I said, I couldn't have picked the guy out of a line up a week ago, nor really told you what he did aside from work at Pixar (of which all I really know about Pixar itself is really what appears in the parks - I have only seen a small handful of the films). I was attempting to respond to how upset and hurt people seem to be about this, and trying to offer a different way to look at it.

You're certainly welcome to your view. I showed what I felt was a generality that you made. You've stated that isn't the case. I was just explaining what made it seem like a generalization to me. That's all. You explained your intent, I've explained why I thought what I did - I agree with you that we can both accept what the other said or not at this point. FTR, I do accept your explanation. I appreciate your overall view and attempt to help some other members.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

I didn't say it wasn't. /sigh

I said the way people are talking about it is as if he was forcefully grabbing women, holding them down and forcing his tongue down their throats, not just standing there while he did it and by all accounts so far, no one said "stop that".

Ugh, you will have to excuse me - I'm bowing out of this topic because frankly I've wasted enough time talking about a man that I couldn't give a turd about to begin with, LOL.

We have a U.S. Senator that has done that - and he's still in power. Lasseter's leave of absence is more than enough punishment for what we know that he did.

 

[bclane]

We have a U.S. Senator that has done that - and he's still in power. Lasseter's leave of absence is more than enough punishment for what we know that he did.

I tend to think that the only way Disney would let him return would be for the women that work at Pixar/Disney to support his return. Even if JL jumped through some pretty giant burning hoops (that I doubt he would agree to), took a huge step down in position and pay, made some pretty hefty donations to women's charities, worked from home, and proved that he was a changed man, I still don't see them letting him back on property any time soon. But maybe. Time will tell.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I tend to think that the only way Disney would let him return would be for the women that work at Pixar/Disney to support his return. Even if JL jumped through some pretty giant burning hoops (that I doubt he would agree to), took a huge step down in position and pay, made some pretty hefty donations to women's charities, worked from home, and proved that he was a changed man, I still don't see them letting him back on property any time soon. But maybe. Time will tell.

I really don't see a hope in hell of him coming back to Disney. The company is very lucky his "departure" has been overshadowed by allegations regarding much more prominent individuals in that the JL allegations don't seem to have tarnished the Disney/Pixar brand or hurt Coco at the box office. Lasseter's name never seems to feature among the few mentioned in articles about Matt Lauer, for example. There is no way, though, that they're going to risk the backlash of bringing him back on after a 6 month "sabbatical" to work on all their animated family films and theme park attractions. I'm fairly sure his final exit will be quietly announced when they feel it will get the least attention and have the least potential to damage Coco's success.

Beyond the business case for or against bringing him back, there is no way Lasseter could ever reemerge as a public face for the brand. Could you imagine them bringing him out in front of the cameras at the Toy Story 4 premiere or the opening to the Ratatouille ride? If they brought him back, they'd have to hide him from reporters. It would be a completely untenable situation.

 

[SorcererMC]

Yes, I am well aware which is why I avoided bringing up the legality - as you are correct, it is a legal defense. But that was not my intent with posting it. I was posting because all of a sudden some of these kids who thought he was a hero now think he is some villain, and simply trying to provide another perspective that it may be somewhere in between.

Regardless, I certainly was not commenting on the employer's liability. That is an entirely separate issue and not one that I have even touched. It appears the company went to great lengths to cover it up - as well as his alcoholism - and I have yet to hear that he was counseled or anything else which would have been legally required of them.

My post was written to get at the facts - not an emotional response, not perception, not rhetoric, not logical fallacies. It's not possible to understand the existing public statements (+what is NOT being said), without having an understanding of the legal context. So, yes, I brought up liability because that is the natural progression of the conversation. It is not 'an entirely separate' issue: there is a direct relationship (morally and legally) between the alleged behavior and the potential consequences - for the offender, for the victims (or any other employees affected), and for the company.

 

[bclane]

I really don't see a hope in hell of him coming back to Disney. The company is very lucky his "departure" has been overshadowed by allegations regarding much more prominent individuals in that the allegations don't seem to have tarnished the Disney/Pixar brand or hurt Coco at the box office. There is no way, though, that they're going to risk the backlash of bringing him back on after a 6 month "sabbatical" to work on all their animated family films and theme park attractions. Beyond the business case for bringing him back, there is no way Lasseter could ever reemerge as a public face for the brand. Could you imagine them bringing him out in front of the cameras at the Toy Story 4 premiere or the opening to the Ratatouille ride? If they brought him back, they'd have to hide him from reporters.

Yeah I don’t think it’s happening either. I think the only scenario that would make business sense would be to use him as a secret uncredited consultant down the road but even that would be risky. I just think that more than likely though he’s done.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

Yeah I don’t think it’s happening either. I think the only scenario that would make business sense would be to use him as a secret uncredited consultant down the road but even that would be risky. I just think that more than likely though he’s done.

I dunno. In six months, all of this will have blown over and we'll be on to the next scandal du jour. That's the world we live in. ...and JL is probably the "most valuable" employee of The Mouse now, and ever since the Pixar/Disney marriage. The guy has not raped anyone, gotten naked or been accused of anything approaching it. He'll be back.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Wdwmagic is really the only place that's talking about John Lassaster. Disney had a problem they had to get rid of and picked a perfect time to dump him without too much blood on their hands. I bet they were loving Matt Lauer and NBC. That's all over the news. Lassaster was a one day story. He won't be back at Disney.

 

[bclane]

I dunno. In six months, all of this will have blown over and we'll be on to the next scandal du jour. That's the world we live in. ...and JL is probably the "most valuable" employee of The Mouse now, and ever since the Pixar/Disney marriage. The guy has not raped anyone, gotten naked or been accused of anything approaching it. He'll be back.

Who knows. I’m certainly not a prophet (or the son of a prophet), so I don’t know what the future holds. To me, inappropriately touching and kissing women (especially when you are the boss), and doing this to the point that they name an avoidance move after you (and they have to assign you handlers to try and protect the women you work with) is pretty fricken bad. Bad enough imo that I personally think he should be done. But I’m not running the show over there and clearly my opinion doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in this matter. I do think the opinion of the women he assaulted matters though. If it were up to me, i’d let them decide. JMHO.

 

[Pixieish]

Who knows. I’m certainly not a prophet (or the son of a prophet), so I don’t know what the future holds. To me, inappropriately touching and kissing women (especially when you are the boss), and doing this to the point that they name an avoidance move after you (and they have to assign you handlers to try and protect the women you work with) is pretty fricken bad. Bad enough imo that I personally think he should be done. But I’m not running the show over there and clearly my opinion doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in this matter. I do think the opinion of the women he assaulted matters though. If it were up to me, i’d let them decide. JMHO.

I'm right there with you on all points. I sure as heck wouldn't want him back, and I'm not easily offended, I forgive easily, and I am not even put off by most stuff, but he crossed the line in some pretty major ways and continued to do so even though I'd almost bet money that AT LEAST one woman reacted in a way that said "what the hell?!?"