News Lasseter taking leave of absence

[Pixieish]

Iger has to protect his Teflon coating.

Yeah...I'm not a fan of the "let's make sure everything looks hunky dory before we leave" strategy.

 

[mikejs78]

He is still gone though. Too many accounts from women who worked there have said it was a bad atmosphere and he was known for being touchy-feely and a groper/squeezer.

That's the thing though. We don't really have accounts like we do for Weinstein, Keven Spacey, etc. We have anonymous hearsay from a newspaper that already got one fact wrong (why Rashida Jones left Pixar). Now those accounts very well may be true - and if they are he should be gone. But we don't really have credible evidence yet to say what the extent of Lasseter's actions were. There is a material difference if he was just an over enthusiastic hugger vs if he did kiss people on the lips without their consent or grope them in any way.

 

[Angel Ariel]

That's the thing though. We don't really have accounts like we do for Weinstein, Keven Spacey, etc. We have anonymous hearsay from a newspaper that already got one fact wrong (why Rashida Jones left Pixar). Now those accounts very well may be true - and if they are he should be gone. But we don't really have credible evidence yet to say what the extent of Lasseter's actions were. There is a material difference if he was just an over enthusiastic hugger vs if he did kiss people on the lips without their consent or grope them in any way.

There were also reports in Vanity Fair and Variety. It isn't just the Hollywood Reporter. The Variety piece linked on the last page says at least one source's report was corroborated by another source. Yes, they're anonymous to the general public. Fear of losing a career you've worked your entire life for will do that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The articles coming out today seem to indicate that this was an established pattern, was 100% pursued/intentional, and that the company structure knew...

...lasseter has already cleaned out his office - rest assured...he won't set foot on the company grounds again.

 

[AEfx]

I clicked on your link and no article came up, so I don't know what it was. This is what I'm referring to, from the Hollywood reporter article.

Nope, that was exactly the quote I was referring to, as well.

No where does it say he "put his hands up a skirt" as you stated. It says they were fearful he would do so.

 

[AEfx]

A legal defense rests on ignorance that the conduct was "unwelcome", ie it is difficult for an employee to claim harassment if they did not let the person know it was unwelcome, neither avoided the behavior nor registered a complaint. The caveat on reporting is if someone else witnessed the behavior, eg another supervisor or mgmt.

In Lasseter's case, ignorance is not credible. He was a supervisor, which would increase the employer's vicarious liability (clarified under two 1998 SCOTUS cases, see EEOC), thus he should have been more cognizant of his behavior, not less. See also the 1986 SCOTUS landmark case Meritor Savings Bank v Vinson, which upheld the Court of Appeals finding that an employer is absolutely liable for sexual harassment by supervisory personnel, whether or not the employer knew or should have known about it.

Yes, I am well aware which is why I avoided bringing up the legality - as you are correct, it is a legal defense. But that was not my intent with posting it. I was posting because all of a sudden some of these kids who thought he was a hero now think he is some villain, and simply trying to provide another perspective that it may be somewhere in between.

Regardless, I certainly was not commenting on the employer's liability. That is an entirely separate issue and not one that I have even touched. It appears the company went to great lengths to cover it up - as well as his alcoholism - and I have yet to hear that he was counseled or anything else which would have been legally required of them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There were also reports in Vanity Fair and Variety. It isn't just the Hollywood Reporter. The Variety piece linked on the last page says at least one source's report was corroborated by another source. Yes, they're anonymous to the general public. Fear of losing a career you've worked your entire life for will do that.

That same article has gone viral all over the Internet. Lasseter is done.

Just like the matt lauer thing today...the times was doing investigative digging and Comcast had no choice but to strike.

That's what the press can do...dedicated people discover the truth and make misconduct accountable. We need them.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Nope, that was exactly the quote I was referring to, as well.

No where does it say he "put his hands up a skirt" as you stated. It says they were fearful he would do so.

You are right. I'm reading her quote with the "would have traveled" as the person speaking from prior experience where it did happen. But that's an assumption. So I'll back up on the up her skirt phrasing. She does, however, describe prolonged touching and rubbing of the bare knee. So now it's not just hugs, but prolonged touching/rubbing of the bare knee (or pantyhosed-knee, possibly, depending on individual dress preference...of someone working under you (which she did say was happening), is something that all 60 year olds assume is OK? Again, I call Bull.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You are right. I'm reading her quote with the "would have traveled" as the person speaking from prior experience where it did happen. But that's an assumption. So I'll back up on the up her skirt phrasing. She does, however, describe prolonged touching and rubbing of the bare knee. So now it's not just hugs, but prolonged touching/rubbing of the bare knee (or pantyhosed-knee, possibly, depending on individual dress preference...of someone working under you (which she did say was happening), is something that all 60 year olds assume is OK? Again, I call Bull.

There are enough stories coming out to prove he was a molester/harasser...

Multiple unrelated incidents from multiple victims/witnesses.

Sometimes the cake is...in fact...a cake.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Yes, I am well aware which is why I avoided bringing up the legality - as you are correct, it is a legal defense. But that was not my intent with posting it. I was posting because all of a sudden some of these kids who thought he was a hero now think he is some villain, and simply trying to provide another perspective that it may be somewhere in between.

Regardless, I certainly was not commenting on the employer's liability. That is an entirely separate issue and not one that I have even touched. It appears the company went to great lengths to cover it up - as well as his alcoholism - and I have yet to hear that he was counseled or anything else which would have been legally required of them.

Of course there's grey in this. But it isn't related to his age or generation. It's beyond wrong to paint the picture that it's just behavior that 60 year olds in general don't recognize as wrong.

 

[bclane]

Nope, that was exactly the quote I was referring to, as well.

No where does it say he "put his hands up a skirt" as you stated. It says they were fearful he would do so.

I know I'm butting into your conversation with Angel Ariel, but that is true. That is the one part that I have cringed at every time I read it in the articles. Basically someone reported (not word for word but basically) that they believed that if her arm wasn't positioned the way it was that his hand would have gone higher up her thigh and now that speculation is getting reported as if it was a fact. The things that people are saying he actually did are bad enough.

 

[AEfx]

Of course there's grey in this. But it isn't related to his age or generation. It's beyond wrong to paint the picture that it's just behavior that 60 year olds in general don't recognize as wrong.

I didn't say "in general", I gave very specific context to his situation in particular. That was but one factor. Folks seem to have read what I said as "he's just old", which if was my point I would have said in a lot fewer words.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I know I'm butting into your conversation with Angel Ariel, but that is true. That is the one part that I have cringed at every time I read it in the articles. Basically someone reported (not word for word but basically) that they believed that if her arm wasn't positioned the way it was that his hand would have gone higher up her thigh and now that speculation is getting reported as if it was a fact. The things that people are saying he actually did are bad enough.

Which is why I walked back my comment and acknowledged that fact.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

I haven't read anything on this thread that would require the complete dismissal of JL. I think the leave of absence is about right, considering the facts. He has apologized, and expressed a desire to change. Hopefully, he'll come back ready to continue producing great content. Disney needs him. ANIMATION needs him. It was in a downward spiral before his talents were put to use.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Of course there's grey in this. But it isn't related to his age or generation. It's beyond wrong to paint the picture that it's just behavior that 60 year olds in general don't recognize as wrong.

I'm getting tired of this tactic...the "mad men" defense of slimebucket behavior.

Maybe you didn't blink at this when you were young...but by the 80's and at least 90's it better have ended or you suffer your fate.

They're using the same argument for that slime bucket in Alabama and it has to stop.

It's like this is a trial in Nuremberg or something

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I haven't read anything on this thread that would require the complete dismissal of JL. I think the leave of absence is about right, considering the facts. He has apologized, and expressed a desire to change. Hopefully, he'll come back ready to continue producing great content. Disney needs him. ANIMATION needs him. It was in a downward spiral before his talents were put to use.

It doesn't matter if they need him...he's done. Have to move on now.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

It doesn't matter if they need him...he's done. Have to move on now.

Is that true? He said in his statement that he hoped to return. Has The Mouse stated that he will not?

 

[bclane]

Which is why I walked back my comment and acknowledged that fact.

Yeah I saw your comment after I posted mine. I'm getting slower as I get older. lol!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Is that true? He said in his statement that he hoped to return. Has The Mouse stated that he will not?

Have you read the articles coming out today?

Parties with fairies...groping in Central Park...Pixar assigned "handlers" at parties...cornering/forcing himself at an Oscar party...

It's over...that's it.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

Have you read the articles coming out today?

Parties with fairies...grouping in Central Park...Pixar assigned "handlers" at parties...cornering/forcing himself at an Oscar party...

It's over...that's it.

OK I just read all of that, and it is worse than I thought - but I'll still be surprised if he's not back in his office in mid-to-late 2018.

 

[21stamps]

I haven’t read thru the thread, but I am planning on it.

Out of the few pages that I have read, here is what strikes me the most-

People keep talking about “they had proof” to terminate, etc etc.

Allegations are not Proof.
They are- allegations.

I just struck me as so telling of society right now.