Kingdom Keepers

[DDuckFan130]

Why thank you for helping me to prove my point

:lol:

You're welcome...I guess :lookaroun

 

[wdwishes2005]

You don't spend enough time at Walt Disney World, or you fail to see what's around you..

i guess at least twice a year for the past 13 years isnt alot is it?

also, really, i mean does any of the ppl in the age gruop NOT know that ppl are under those costumes? or that on peter pan you are lifted into the air by machines, not pixie dust.

 

[robynchic]

But, I don't remember a good number of them, the ones that taught at you, saying, "Write this down because I tell you, its right because I say its right."

Now, here's the sad thing that, from a discussion I just had in previously mentioned class, will make you really angry.

"Write this down because I tell you, its right because I say its right" is exactly the perspective most teachers nowadays have. And it's because of this beautiful little paper (okay, the paper is about 18-24 inches THICK) called the No Child Left Behind Act. Everyone is being mainstreamed, everyone is being told how and what to teach the children...believe me, I highly doubt you'll see this book in schools because of this stupid act that gives no freedom to teachers, making them dread reading as much as the children they're teaching do.
In Virginia, the Standards of Learning assessment is based on a set of guidelines teachers were supposed to teach on. Then the government flipped it on its head and said "Well, we're going to test you on those guidelines." They weren't meant to be tested on, if you read them. They were meant to be a useful tool for teachers to help them in the classroom.

It really is sad how this country has been spun around until no one knows anything anymore because of one single federal act.


In defense of myself, however, I am a member of the first group of entertainment cast members you mention. The "typical" screen name I have, I came up with before I started the College Program, and it's the one everyone knows me by, so I don't feel like changing it. I am also one of the CMs that calls it "Murder the Magic" AND I have been on the Keys to the Kingdom tour. I have also seen people's reactions when they see the truth behind the mask, I guess you could say. They are shocked, awed, and frankly, fascinated at what they see. So if you want to talk about preserving the magic, I think that WDW should do what many Entertainment cast members say and completely can the tour.

In Florida, to come up with the learning guidelines, the state education system had English teachers from all over the state convene to create a learning guideline. The one the English teachers came up with was perfect for what should be taught. The legislators thought it was too difficult, told the English teachers to re-write it. They said that no, this is what should be taught. The education system's reaction? They threw out the guidelines for English that was written BY English teachers, and had...a physical education teacher write them up. Not a group of teachers. A single teacher. That had nothing to do with English.
Now, is that how you want our schools to be? Do you want the United States' school systems to be so tightly controlled, like a straitjacket, that your children will never get the same education you got?

This is why it upsets me that you are so vehemently against this book. Your insistance on how this book is not appropriate reinforces the concept that educators have no idea what they're talking about, and that Everyman (or stupid people elected by "the citizens" when really they're not...look at the electoral college) should be the one to tell the education system what to do and what to think, even if they don't know the first thing about what educators are TRYING to do.

As for the author playing around with a world he didn't create...well, he did, in a way, didn't he? He created the concept of the holographic guides. That's a concept Disney doesn't have. He twisted things around in a current environment to create something new. All someone needs to do to create a new world is to alter, add, or remove one key feature in the current world.
You're insisting that this book wasn't approved by the Walt Disney Company. What are they, Big Brother? If Disney permits it to be sold in their stores, the book had to go through some kind of screening process. And, in turn, found acceptable by the people screening it.

For the past 34 years, Disney has been very careful about the character integrity of its stars. No book you can find, no matter how in depth, that has ever been released by Disney, has ever confronted the character issue in the way this novel has.

I beg to differ. I don't know if you've read Disney War, or, like many of us, have attempted to get through it, but the prologue specifically talks about the author getting trained to be Goofy. Not to be "friends with" Goofy. But to BE Goofy. In fact, I don't know how THIS got approved to be printed in public, but the book has the specific character description of Goofy, from the Walt Disney World Character Book. To the word. Now, how could that one have slipped through Disney's hands? And I think I know what your reaction to this statement is going to be. "It wasn't released by Disney." But it was authorized by the Walt Disney Company to be published, so therefore, there has to be some kind of leniency you don't agree with.

I hope that all of this has answered a few of your questions. Does it explain how I feel a bit more? Does it directly answer your question about the world you say the author didn't create, but made a complete distopia for the magic that you think should remain?

The sole redeeming feature is that you are working at WDW, and have the oppurtunity to create magic everyday.

Yes, it is redeeming to say I work in Walt Disney World. Yes, it is redeeming to have the opportunity to create magic everyday (I will tell you right now, this is a bit tongue in cheek...but that was TWO redeeming features... ) But you know what's my favorite part of the job? Seeing the small children that get joy out of every little thing. What do I hate about my job? Seeing children that are at "The age of not believing" (Bedknobs and Broomsticks!) trying to beat the tar out of characters. And "the age of not believing," from what I've seen, starts at about 7-8 years old.

 

[Enderikari]

"Write this down because I tell you, its right because I say its right" is exactly the perspective most teachers nowadays have. And it's because of this beautiful little paper (okay, the paper is about 18-24 inches THICK) called the No Child Left Behind Act. Everyone is being mainstreamed, everyone is being told how and what to teach the children...

Lest this board degenerate into a political discussion, I think I shall move by this comment, only with stating that the NCLB act is an under-funded, under-thought bit of political gerrymandering.

In defense of myself, however, I am a member of the first group of entertainment cast members you mention. The "typical" screen name I have, I came up with before I started the College Program, and it's the one everyone knows me by, so I don't feel like changing it. I am also one of the CMs that calls it "Murder the Magic" AND I have been on the Keys to the Kingdom tour. I have also seen people's reactions when they see the truth behind the mask, I guess you could say. They are shocked, awed, and frankly, fascinated at what they see. So if you want to talk about preserving the magic, I think that WDW should do what many Entertainment cast members say and completely can the tour.

Oh really, because if I remember correctly, you stated before, hold on... I'll see if I can find it in the list of posts down here...

"Preserving the magic" is nonsense if you're trying to get children to read.

I also still stand by the fact that the Keys to the Kingdom guides promote the utmost respect for the Entertainment cast members, by describing what its like to be in entertainment. An expression of respect which is not reciprocated. In fact, from what I understand, most Keys tours never even see a character backstage, and have been very flexible in removing bits of the tour which the guests found most revealing at entertainment's request! I personally hope that the Magic Kingdom finally has the cojones to tell the Entertainment Department NO!, as the whole park seems to have been bending over backward for them for the last decade (only recently seen in the removal of guest areas in Exposition Hall so characters could be more comfortable... who really needs to see the beautiful Bill Justice Mural back there, anyway?)

This is why it upsets me that you are so vehemently against this book. Your insistance on how this book is not appropriate reinforces the concept that educators have no idea what they're talking about, and that Everyman (or stupid people elected by "the citizens" when really they're not...look at the electoral college) should be the one to tell the education system what to do and what to think, even if they don't know the first thing about what educators are TRYING to do.

Now, far be it from me to not try and distance myself from the unwashed masses, "the citizens." But, read this again, doesn't it sound a little arrogant? Teachers know better than the people (once again, I agree with the concept, but this isn't a politics board), and should be allowed to do what they want. I am all for freedom for teachers to teach, but there also has to be some sort of accountability, either with standardized tests, or teacher's exams.

I beg to differ. I don't know if you've read Disney War, or, like many of us, have attempted to get through it, but the prologue specifically talks about the author getting trained to be Goofy. Not to be "friends with" Goofy. But to BE Goofy. In fact, I don't know how THIS got approved to be printed in public, but the book has the specific character description of Goofy, from the Walt Disney World Character Book. To the word. Now, how could that one have slipped through Disney's hands? And I think I know what your reaction to this statement is going to be. "It wasn't released by Disney." But it was authorized by the Walt Disney Company to be published, so therefore, there has to be some kind of leniency you don't agree with.

Ummm... Disney War happens to be sitting next to where I am typing... Looking at the cover, it says...Simon and Schuster... As for the Walt Disney Company having to approve the book... The book itself had no need to report its contents to the Disney company for review... It is a tell-all book, you know, like those ones you see about celebrities. Now, obviously he had some help with the first part of the book, and to have access to some Disney archives for his information, but unfortunately, that is some of the cronyism which is present in the world today.

Does it directly answer your question about the world you say the author didn't create, but made a complete distopia for the magic that you think should remain?

Once again, the argument, pure and simple, getting down to brass tacks. Is whether or not this is a book meant for children. I say that the children that will be most interested in reading it, have the most to lose from doing so. This book is so small, its not even a blip on the radar about damaging the Magic Kingdom. But, it could be damaging to the little boy or girl, who reads and learns that his/her fairy tales aren't real..

 

[PagingTomMorrow]

time warp anyone?

 

[Enderikari]

Its just a step to the left...

 

[PagingTomMorrow]

Improv time warp

then STOP!!!..... hammatime!!!

 

[robynchic]

Its just a step to the left...

It's a jump to the left, and a step to the riiiiiiiiiiight...

Among other things I do, I'm Columbia in a cast back home (when I'm not at school or in Disney)

 

[Enderikari]

Well then, its no wonder I lost the bid to do riff-raff. Though I did have a great time auditioning.

"It's astounding, time is fleeting
Madness takes its toll
But listen closely, not for very much longer
I've got to keep control

I remember doing the TIme Warp ::Kick Kick::
Drinking those moments when
The blackness would hit me and the void would be calling
Let's do the time warp again...
Let's do the time warp again!"

 

[robynchic]

Well I was walkin' down the street, just a'havin a think
When a snake of a guy gave me an evil wink
He shooka me up, he took me by surprise
He had a pick-up truck and the devil's eyes
Stared at me, and I felt a change
Time meant nothin' never would again.

*starts tap dancing*

THREAD THIEVERY PERFORMED BY THE DUELING PERSONALITIES!

 

[Enderikari]

However, you can't forget my favorite one to perform!

My my my, my my my my my, my my my my...
I'm a wild and untamed thing
I'm a bee with a deadly sting
You get a hit and your mind goes ping
Your heart will pump and your blood will sing
So let the party and the sound rock on
We're gonna shake it til the life has gone
Rose tints my world keeps me safe from my trouble and pain.

 

[robynchic]

We are so stealing this thread....


Push differences aside, say forget the thread, and shake hands?

 

[Enderikari]

Oh... I don't know... I am a pretty stubborn fellow, but in the interest of magic for the Magic Kingdom, I think I can keep some Kingdom Keepers opinions to myself... Agreed

 

[LetsGtDangerous]

As a Disney fan who believes in preserving the magical guest experience, I was geniunely angry after reading the book. If I ever encounter the author, we will have a VERY vocal argument about appropriate content for a book.
Plus, for a book that was helped along by an imagineer, to put that Walt had an apartment on top of the Firehouse in Orlando is a glaring mistake.

Anyway, it was a fun read, but it ends abruptly and the author deserves a quick kick in the face.

Ok, I just started to read this thread, but now I'm tired and want to sleep, and the last thing I want to do is get sucked into this website for the next hour.

So, If someone else made this point, I'm sorry, but I'd love clarification. I've always heard, for years and years, in fact saw in some Disney doc somewhere, that walt did have a room above the Firehouse. Maybe my memory is hazy, and that room was on main street, but I remember it being the Firehouse. In fact, i always still think of him when I go to that part of MK. From what i remember, it was never used by him, obviously since he died before MK opened, and that the family thought it would be too sad to be in "Walt's Place" without Walt, so they never used it.

Is this not correct? I've read this, and had to collaborated by many different people, disney fans / employees / people who would know.

 

[Enderikari]

Walt's Apartment above the Firehouse is in Disneyland, California... Now, Walt was supposed to have an apartment in the castle... which was built, but never used by any member of the Disney family

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Now that I've read it, my opinions, in no particularly coherent strucure, are:

I think the author committed one of the biggest sins possible with such source material, which is ignoring DETAIL. The Magic Kingdom is so full of lively, detailed surroundings, but so many of his descriptions were just cursory and boring. When the kids are leaving the HM, they hear "piped-in music," not the themed Liberty Square soundtrack with flutes and drums I could hear in my head. Splash Mountain is full of "rabbits" and "wolves" (wolves?), but he doesn't bother to tell us anything about the ride's story. I thought his descriptive presentation of MK was just flat pretty much throughout, and it really detracted.

The book also had some pretty noticeable errors, the most glaring to me being in the Splash Mountain section, where the boys only have to ascend one lift and spend the rest of the ride either going straight or down. It became really obvious at the final drop, where the boys were sucked over the edge without having to make what would be in reality one hellaciously long climb.

Also, what's up with Walt placing clues in rides that weren't even in the works when he was alive (Pooh, Splash, and I think Big Thunder fits this category as well)? If the book at least tried to address the fact that Walt wasn't directly connected to those rides and come up with some justification for the clues being there, that would be fine, but the author just ignores it. Seems odd since he made some effort to respect Disney history in the story.

I have other criticisms, but they're more nitpicky. Those were the biggies to me. The plot itself was pretty standard youth detective/adventure stuff. Enjoyable, but it won't stick with me. I also never really got my arms around any of the characters. They all seemed a little cardboard. I may or may not buy any sequels.

Bottom line: Pick this up from the library or borrow it from your nephew, but it's not really worth the $19 if you're over 13.

 

[jakeman]

Wilt Dasney those are very good points and something I did not notice. There is a lack of detail about the park throughout the book. It's almost as if he wrote the book just looking at the guide map.

I agree completely about the plot and the characters. Like I said in a previous post, I think the author was trying to accomplish something that either he as an author is not capable of, or restrictions from the editor/publisher would not allow him to accomplish. The book seems to be ill researched for the type of detailed plot the author was going for.

I sincerely hope the next one is better (if there is a next one), the book on a whole is a very intriguing concept.

 

[TchaikovskyVCID]

In case anyone wanted a teenager's perspective on this book, I'm 17. I just picked up The Kingdom Keepers (along with Alice's Adventures in Wonderland) and I can't put it down.

 

[marksniles]

I just finished it - I'm 32 - a HUGE Disney fan - and LOVED IT! I didn't fret over the tiny little details! It's a FICTION book - get over it people!

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I just finished it - I'm 32 - a HUGE Disney fan - and LOVED IT! I didn't fret over the tiny little details! It's a FICTION book - get over it people!

The factual errors and historical boo-boos I can overlook, since as you say, it's fiction. It was the author's descriptive presentation and lack of real character development that really detracted for me.

I think it's a neat concept, all the same, so I may pick up future installments.