Journey Into Imagination 2007

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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
DisneyDragon said:
As for projects, getting a greenlight for something with a payback of more than one year...good luck. Analysts will have nothing to do with that stock.

I don't have an MBA but WHAT??? The costs of capital projects get amortized out (assuming the company didn't finance it). Are you saying that Everest is going to bring in over $100 million in profit to Animal Kingdom this year? I don't think so. Either they financed the project so it will be paid off over time (likely) or they paid cash for it (less likely) and will amortize it over several years. Either way, no project on the scale of an attraction is going to be paid back in a year.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Lewis Carroll said:
So I guess we wont be seeing anything on the calibur of Splash Mountain, Tower of Terror, or Indiana Jones anytime soon..:(

The modular format only needs to be used at the Studios, since it's the only park with soundstages.


I've read most of the comments related to the AA/projection argument, and I think that a few people have made the mistake of lumping all attractions together. Based on what I've read in recent statements and been told by Imagineering, a better way to define Disney's new focus on easily upgraded attractions is this: if an attraction could become outdated within a few years, it will be built to take advantage of the upgrading system. Such ride systems do not necessarily need to be projection-based. ToT is considered to be an "easily upgraded" attraction. Of course, Soarin' is, too.


Yes, Disney will be utilizing new projection technology as much as they can, especially now that razor-sharp, high-definition images are possible. AAs cost more than ever before to build, and their inclusion into attractions will be based on the ride's potential long-term durability--in other words, how long will the attraction exist before it seems to be a stale experience? Is the attraction based on a timeless concept that will be become a classic (such as pirates, ghosts, dinosaurs, or a yeti); or is it based on a momentary fad that will seem outdated in a decade? The beauty of film-based attractions is that although they become outdated much faster than traditional darkrides, they can be updated more easily. Unless, of course, that attraction happens to be Star Tours. :p


The "Will it need to be updated?" argument will be used more and more to determine whether or not an attraction needs to have millions of dollars of AAs installed. Imagineers love the idea of being able to tweak their ride system almost effortlessly in years to come, but they know that solid, three-dimensional, tactile AAs are often necessary to tell a story convincingly.

They haven't dumped AAs in favor of movies; they're just trying to decide which upcoming attractions really require the construction costs, programming, and maintenance of an AA. Sometimes, projection-based attractions really do work better. Soarin' would have much less of an impact if you just flew over a couple of models of California.

EDIT: The reverse argument is also true. Golden Dreams, a DCA show that is basically a version of the American Adventure for California, is film-based and lacks the energy, interest, and realism that the AAs bring to the Epcot stage production. As a matter of fact, Golden Dreams is a flop. People don't go to theme parks to watch movies, which they could do at home. In this case, AAs are a preferred storytelling solution.
 

jedimaster1227

Active Member
juan said:
let's just say that one park may get back to the basics

If you are referring to what I think you are referring to, let me say, "Don't get your hopes up that high." That park's skyline is going to stay like that for a very long time. The stations will either be demolished or used for new attractions. One already has a project fit to go into it (but not yet confirmed) while the other will most likely be demolished to make way for a new dark ride attraction.

But this I am referring to the park I think you are referring to... :zipit:
 

DisneyDragon

New Member
DisneyCane said:
I don't have an MBA but WHAT??? The costs of capital projects get amortized out (assuming the company didn't finance it). Are you saying that Everest is going to bring in over $100 million in profit to Animal Kingdom this year? I don't think so. Either they financed the project so it will be paid off over time (likely) or they paid cash for it (less likely) and will amortize it over several years. Either way, no project on the scale of an attraction is going to be paid back in a year.

Disney Resorts is an extremely capital intensive division of the company, and yes, they would need to justify the capital outlay with revenue/profit stream boosts. Also, included in the analysts' outlooks are continued growth (why one needs continued weenie development in a theme park). You are correct that payback won't happen in one year - but consider how many projects at Disney are of this scale and magnitude. It does clearly explain the proliferation of 'amusement' rides in the parks, as opposed to gonzo attractions. Take Aladdin's Magic Carpets - relatively inexpensive, and while not a crowd draw, is used to enhance the park (esp. in areas of weak attractions, either in terms of quality or quantity, or if other attractions are coming down for rehab/re-imagineer).

You would simply have a huge problem with convincing analysts that opening lots of new E-tix is a good thing...one per park at a time would suffice for growth, but multiple ones? Not when attendance is down, and the underlying factors for guest draw aren't related to the number of new E-Tix (gas prices, economy stagnation in the US, etc). Fortunately, the other side of the coin is the fact that over 70% of guests at any one time are repeat guests. Those that attend more frequently than every third year, however, go for reasons other than new E-Ticket attractions - interest (fanaticism) and tradition are the most powerful reasons.

It is much easier to gain the acceptance of the analysts when opening a whole new park...brand new revenue streams provided there is minimal potential for cannibalization - e.g. Disneyland Hong Kong.
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
DisneyDragon said:
Disney Resorts is an extremely capital intensive division of the company, and yes, they would need to justify the capital outlay with revenue/profit stream boosts. Also, included in the analysts' outlooks are continued growth (why one needs continued weenie development in a theme park). You are correct that payback won't happen in one year - but consider how many projects at Disney are of this scale and magnitude. It does clearly explain the proliferation of 'amusement' rides in the parks, as opposed to gonzo attractions. Take Aladdin's Magic Carpets - relatively inexpensive, and while not a crowd draw, is used to enhance the park (esp. in areas of weak attractions, either in terms of quality or quantity, or if other attractions are coming down for rehab/re-imagineer).

You would simply have a huge problem with convincing analysts that opening lots of new E-tix is a good thing...one per park at a time would suffice for growth, but multiple ones? Not when attendance is down, and the underlying factors for guest draw aren't related to the number of new E-Tix (gas prices, economy stagnation in the US, etc). Fortunately, the other side of the coin is the fact that over 70% of guests at any one time are repeat guests. Those that attend more frequently than every third year, however, go for reasons other than new E-Ticket attractions - interest (fanaticism) and tradition are the most powerful reasons.

It is much easier to gain the acceptance of the analysts when opening a whole new park...brand new revenue streams provided there is minimal potential for cannibalization - e.g. Disneyland Hong Kong.
I'm having a hard time understanding the point you're trying to make. If your point is simply that opening multiple e-tickets is not fiscally responsible, then you're correct. It doesn't make sense when most of the parks simply need filler attractions (c & d tickets) and/or refurbs to existing attraction.

If you are trying to make the point they should built multiple e-tickets, then I personally think that's a bad idea. I also believe that most of the decision makers see it as a bad idea also... not just the "analysts".
 

jedimaster1227

Active Member
wannab@dis said:
I'm having a hard time understanding the point you're trying to make. If your point is simply that opening multiple e-tickets is not fiscally responsible, then you're correct. It doesn't make sense when most of the parks simply need filler attractions (c & d tickets) and/or refurbs to existing attraction.

If you are trying to make the point they should built multiple e-tickets, then I personally think that's a bad idea. I also believe that most of the decision makers see it as a bad idea also... not just the "analysts".

I think that we are lucky that the analysts don't make ALL of the decisions at Disney because if they did, we would see Six Flag's Disneyworld. Disney is so special because it isn't like any other theme park chain in the world. It is run and owned by a company that has infiltrated countless different markets (electronics, video games, multimedia, theme park, production facilities, feature film production, animation, and more). Disney doesn't make all of its decisions based on statistics (most of the time). If there is a project that Disney wishes to pursue, they go at it until they find that it is impossible (and if they find it impossible, they work to find the next best thing). Disney is a company that is different than any in the world. They take pride in that and they show it by creating the special resorts like WDW, DL, HKDL, DLP and TDL.
 

jedimaster1227

Active Member
wannab@dis said:
Did I say they did? :veryconfu

No, I was just stating my opinion that we are lucky that Disney doesn't always let the number crunchers make the decisions. I wasn't referring to anything you said...:lookaroun
 

CaptainMichael

Well-Known Member
jedimaster said:
If you are referring to what I think you are referring to, let me say, "Don't get your hopes up that high." That park's skyline is going to stay like that for a very long time. The stations will either be demolished or used for new attractions. One already has a project fit to go into it (but not yet confirmed) while the other will most likely be demolished to make way for a new dark ride attraction.

But this I am referring to the park I think you are referring to...

I have never been so lost...

I am growing tired of the vagueness...either give us some idea (like Lee and Corrus) or don't say anything at all...

I don't want to sound mean, but enough is enough!

If Lee and Corrus can say more concrete things, I'm sure you can too.
 

jedimaster1227

Active Member
STR8FAN2005 said:
I have never been so lost...

I am growing tired of the vagueness...either give us some idea (like Lee and Corrus) or don't say anything at all...

I don't want to sound mean, but enough is enough!

If Lee and Corrus can say more concrete things, I'm sure you can too.

I believe Juan was referring to the old Skyway at MK and the recent rumor that it would be brought back (Not that I think it will happen). I didn't mention it because the last time anyone did, they were targeted for spreading false rumors. I don't believe that it will happen, that is all that I was saying. Sorry it was too vague. Next time it won't be.:wave:
 

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
jedimaster1227 said:
I believe Juan was referring to the old Skyway at MK and the recent rumor that it would be brought back. I didn't mention it because the last time anyone did, they were targeted for spreading false rumors. I don't believe that it will happen, that is all that I was saying. Sorry it was too vague. Next time it won't be.:wave:

That was my thought, too. I know several people have mentioned use of the stations, or at least the Tomorrowland station (although, if I remember correctly, there was an ODD rumor about the Fantasyland station becoming connected to HM in the rehab. I have the salt shaker ready).
 

CaptainMichael

Well-Known Member
jedimaster1227 said:
I believe Juan was referring to the old Skyway at MK and the recent rumor that it would be brought back. I didn't mention it because the last time anyone did, they were targeted for spreading false rumors. I don't believe that it will happen, that is all that I was saying. Sorry it was too vague. Next time it won't be.:wave:
Thank you:wave:
 

jedimaster1227

Active Member
Epcot82Guy said:
That was my thought, too. I know several people have mentioned use of the stations, or at least the Tomorrowland station (although, if I remember correctly, there was an ODD rumor about the Fantasyland station becoming connected to HM in the rehab. I have the salt shaker ready).

Is that even possible? Those two buildings aren't very close together if I remember correctly. HM would have to have a huge (Extremely huge) expansion to get all the way over to that part of Fantasyland.
 

jedimaster1227

Active Member
Lee said:
Skyway? Back? Not a chance.:rolleyes:

I didn't think so either. The Tommorowland station will be used for a new attraction soon while the Fantasyland station will probably be demolished to make way for a new dark ride.
 

Lee

Adventurer
jedimaster1227 said:
I didn't think so either. The Tommorowland station will be used for a new attraction soon while the Fantasyland station will probably be demolished to make way for a new dark ride.

Kinda...
The Tomorrowland station will be taken out to make room for "The Incredibles" (If the current plan goes through.)
The Fantasyland station will stay like it is. There is not enough room for a dark ride there.
 

Lewis Carroll

Account Suspended
Lee said:
Kinda...
The Tomorrowland station will be taken out to make room for "The Incredibles" (If the current plan goes through.)
The Fantasyland station will stay like it is. There is not enough room for a dark ride there.

Couldnt they extend into the back of the skyway station too?
 
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