Jim Hill on XPass attraction line-up

[spaceghost]

Your entire argument is predicated on the assumption that x-pass will not affect guests (and their vacations) that chose to refrain from using x-pass. I'd like to see your support for such an assumption.

The same assumptive argument was likely made by someone just prior to the implementation of the current ADR system. However, not once over the past 6-7 trips to WDW have I been able to dine with any level of spontaneity. Instead, I'm forced to book my ADRs 180 days in advance, because of a system that literally governs the way dining is booked. If I chose not to make an ADR for a restaurant I would like to dine at....guess what? I'm not eating there that trip. So I'm forced to utilize the system, because I simply have no other choice.

You cited an example in how you would have benefited from being able to schedule TSMM and RNRC via x-pass, as you would have been able to do those attractions on your short visit to DHS while also visiting TOT, star tours, muppets and GMR. However, you're assuming that TSMM, RNRC and the other rides and attractions in DHS will remain completely unaffected by x-pass. Until this system is put in place, no one knows what the impact of xpass on the other rides will be...but I'd be absolutely shocked if waits across the remainder of the parks weren't negatively impacted for standby riders.

Imagine your same argument, that you would have been able to schedule TSMM and RNRC that morning you went to DHS. But then remove Star Tours and The muppets from the other attractions you visited, because x-pass has made GMR and TOT's standby lines flat out thunderous. The only way you would have been able to get through the park under such circumstances, is to have booked each and every ride at home as soon as the x-pass window opened. If you chose not to....thats fine, but your going to have to miss a few of your intended stops. There in lies the problem. The more pervasive this system becomes, the far less *choice* we have when utilizing it and most guests will have to resort to a 'if you can't beat em, join em' philosophy.

Frankly, this is starting to sound a lot like the ADR system all over again!

The fact of the matter is that I'm not so sure TDO (or yourself) has considered the unintended consequences here. This x-pass system is going to radically change the way we all book our vacations in WDW....to suggest it's not going to impact our vacations and we can simply chose to use it or not, is folly.

This is not good...not good at all. Anyone that views this with the myopic view presented above has not considered the drawbacks.

I do not disagree with your points, but not considering the potential positives is also a bit myopic, IMHO. I think we also need to keep things in perspective - if wait times are increased for non-X-Pass users by an average of 5 minutes (for example), that's not great, but it's not the end of the world, either. If that ends up being 15-30 minutes, that's a different story. I don't see any point in rushing to judgement on this (especially since we aren't going to stop it from happening).

 

[lebeau]

I do not disagree with your points, but not considering the potential positives is also a bit myopic, IMHO. I think we also need to keep things in perspective - if wait times are increased for non-X-Pass users by an average of 5 minutes (for example), that's not great, but it's not the end of the world, either. If that ends up being 15-30 minutes, that's a different story. I don't see any point in rushing to judgement on this (especially since we aren't going to stop it from happening).

If it's an average of 5 extra minutes in line per ride, I'd say that's pretty awful. 10 attractions in a day will cost you and extra hour. I would guess (were this the case) the average guest would experience at least one less attraction per day.

End of the world? No. Decline by degrees? Heck yeah. A pretty huge one in my book.

Disney is apparently estimating the impact will be less than 5 minutes per ride. But could be 6-8 minutes for the headliners. So I figure about 1 less attraction per day sounds about right. Or, for a premium, maybe you score an extra 3-4 attractions a day.

As you pointed out, it's the blatantness that is off-putting. It's such a cash grab. And a cash grab on top of an already expensive vacation as well.

And as Steamboat Wil pointed out, the parks are not in the best repair. Maintenance has been reduced. Few new attractions. Instead, Disney has been investing in this cash grab scheme while simultaneously raising prices and letting their parks grow stale. :fork:

 

[Ignohippo]

I love it. Uni already has the program (which is free for resort guests, works perfectly, and is great motivation to stay on Uni property), yet TDO is going to make it much more complicated and much more expensive. Do they really need to continue to give people any more excuses to not come to WDW?

Seriously, if the rumors are true and I'm a father trying to plan an expensive family vacation, hearing about one more "optional expense" may be just the thing to tip the scales to not come to WDW for our vacation. They're taking something that could be an amazing motivator to stay on Disney property and turning it into a major turn off.

Unless the costs to guests are extremely high, they will need to get a lot of people into the program to justify it. If they get a lot of people to do it, you can expect wait times for the average guest to go up substantially. If it's incredibly expensive, the program is bound to fail in this economy. Either way, I don't see how it could possibly succeed.

Leave it to TDO to find a way to charge people for standing in line!

As for spending "billions" on this program, x-pass isn't what they're spending billions on. They're spending billions on next gen technologies for tracking guests throughout the park and trying to create "personalized" experiences. I don't believe we've really seen even the tip of the iceberg of those programs yet, but I'd bet the "Talking Mickey" is closer to it than x-pass.

 

[Ignohippo]

If it's an average of 5 extra minutes in line per ride, I'd say that's pretty awful. 10 attractions in a day will cost you and extra hour. I would guess (were this the case) the average guest would experience at least one less attraction per day.

End of the world? No. Decline by degrees? Heck yeah. A pretty huge one in my book.

Disney is apparently estimating the impact will be less than 5 minutes per ride. But could be 6-8 minutes for the headliners. So I figure about 1 less attraction per day sounds about right. Or, for a premium, maybe you score an extra 3-4 attractions a day.

As you pointed out, it's the blatantness that is off-putting. It's such a cash grab. And a cash grab on top of an already expensive vacation as well.

And as Steamboat Wil pointed out, the parks are not in the best repair. Maintenance has been reduced. Few new attractions. Instead, Disney has been investing in this cash grab scheme while simultaneously raising prices and letting their parks grow stale. :fork:

This is absolutely perfectly stated.

 

[lebeau]

it also makes perfect sense for them in this economy

Wha-huh?

How do you figure?

Lemme do the math. The economy is tight. So they offer a lesser experience at a higher price.

Yep, makes perfect sense.

 

[the-reason14]

I'm about to that point myself.




:zipit: This is what bothers me the most. I already pay a lot of money just for tickets alone for my family, as everyone does. I certainly do not want to hand over more money for something that they have offered for free. The fast pass worked just fine for us.

Not only that, but I do not want to plan every move we make in the parks. Planning ADR's is enough of a headache. :hammer:

I dont think that I am going to be to happy with this. I hope I am wrong because I love everything Disney, but I am not feeling it right now.

I agree, but I already know that I won't be happy with this and wish it wasn't happening. The policy change was/is already enough for me to want to call it quits, or at the least not go nearly as much, but this is just like a slap in the face to everyone who's been reaping the benefits of FREE fastpasses for however long it's been free. Over 10 years right, and now yall wanna charge!? Please, where's the exit?

 

[PirateFrank]

I do not disagree with your points, but not considering the potential positives is also a bit myopic, IMHO. I think we also need to keep things in perspective - if wait times are increased for non-X-Pass users by an average of 5 minutes (for example), that's not great, but it's not the end of the world, either. If that ends up being 15-30 minutes, that's a different story. I don't see any point in rushing to judgement on this (especially since we aren't going to stop it from happening).

My use of the word myopic has to do with the lofty assumptions being made by the poster, not whether he or she was taking a positive or negative slant on this.

But regardless, i'll play. What potential positives? While none of us know how Disney will manage this abortion yet, I'm not seeing many positives at all. I dont consider booking my Ohana ADR 180 days out a 'positive'...that firmly sits in the negative folder! How the eff is being forced to book TSMM (or face wasting 180 min in a standby queue) 90 days away a 'positive?'

Let's also add, the name of the game is for guests to pay for this....and please, someone tell me I'm wrong, hasn't someone already acknowledged that TDO expects an increase to standby traffic? Tell me this doesn't stink to high hell of making the free alternative less bearable to drive sales on the alternative people have to pay for? When everyone's forced into paying for this crap, it'll be a zero sum game again...

Someone expertly stated before that this is a case of fixing something that it's broken and getting to charge people for the fix...

I'm sorry if I sound a little steamed, but I really see no bright side to this madness and I welcome anyone to paint out a realistic picture without best case scenarios.

 

[2gether]

Brighter side

My use of the word myopic has to do with the lofty assumptions being made by the poster, not whether he or she was taking a positive or negative slant on this.

But regardless, i'll play. What potential positives? While none of us know how Disney will manage this abortion yet, I'm not seeing many positives at all. I dont consider booking my Ohana ADR 180 days out a 'positive'...that firmly sits in the negative folder! How the eff is being forced to book TSMM (or face wasting 180 min in a standby queue) 90 days away a 'positive?'

Let's also add, the name of the game is for guests to pay for this....and please, someone tell me I'm wrong, hasn't someone already acknowledged that TDO expects an increase to standby traffic? Tell me this doesn't stink to high hell of making the free alternative less bearable to drive sales on the alternative people have to pay for? When everyone's forced into paying for this crap, it'll be a zero sum game again...

Someone expertly stated before that this is a case of fixing something that it's broken and getting to charge people for the fix...

I'm sorry if I sound a little steamed, but I really see no bright side to this madness and I welcome anyone to paint out a realistic picture without best case scenarios.

Well, I don't mind making ADR's and am able to get much better dining experiences than I did before.

I think the same thing is going to happen with this system. Next-Gen will start out with the X-Pass, which a small group of people (like me) will use and become absolutely addicted. I will pay an upcharge (how much? Not sure) to not have to stand in line or run to the Fastpass. And I will spend the time to make my reservations, and I will enjoy it. It may not be YOUR thing, but I like to plan and I enjoy knowing that my family and I will get all the major experiences we want. Each of the last couple of times we have missed major rides because the lines were just too long. This is a way for me to prevent that ever happening again...

From another perspective, it is highly likely that most of the X-Passes will be compensated for by reduced FastPasses. I do not expect the standbye lines, which in the case of the major rides are already very long, to be effected much at all.

Also, I will save an hour or more EVERY DAY by not having to stake out spots for parades etc. That time can be spent enjoying the parks.

Your perspective that this is a bad thing is BECAUSE YOU DON'T INTEND TO USE IT. For those of us who will, it will be about the coolest thing since sliced bread.

My ONLY concern is that it not be so high priced that I can't afford it. Otherwise I will love it.

AND I look forward to ALL THE OTHER NextGen stuff which will come out over the years. I only wish my kids were a little younger...I would have loved to see them at 5 having the new talking Mickey character know their names when they walk up and greet them by such. That would have been totally amazing for them and for me.

You guys are such Debbie Downers! Oftentimes you have legitimate gripes and I like reading about them. But, as an example, just last year there were tons of comments about the "Magic, Memories and You" show and how stupid it was going to be. People have had to suck up that they were flat out wrong about that show, which is clearly a great addition to the park. I predict it will be the same with this.

 

[figment5002000]

Xpass sounds like a disaster to me!
It it will be like doing an ADR it will be 180 days out and will go to make Xpass reservations and nothing will be left for the day or days we want it for. Xpass reservaton will we split over the whole trip making a park hopper pass a necssity vs a luxury. Fastpass will be gone because none will be left for the day of just like ADR to popular resturants. Xpass is and will be a major mistake and disaster!

 

[WDW1974]

haven't read the thread ... and don't have time, but read Jim 'Witness Protection Program Member' Hill's column on it. Info all seemed legit with what I've heard ... and I fully believe it all sucks and shows how out of touch management (all the way up to The Weatherman) really is.

When you require a specific time for so many things ... and can't even view Illuminations from the same spot you have for 20 years because Disney has decided to take it over and use it for ressies ... it all just reaches a point where it really isn't worth it.

The product isn't exactly the best in Orlando, let alone the best Disney can do.

And now they are going to make lines worse for so many things and tier things so there's a real caste system going on ... spend more, wait less. Yeah, I'll rip them and then go elsewhere ... like DL ... or HKDL ... or DLP ... or TDR.

~He was working for the East Germans~

 

[captainkidd]

I love it. Uni already has the program (which is free for resort guests, works perfectly, and is great motivation to stay on Uni property), yet TDO is going to make it much more complicated and much more expensive. Do they really need to continue to give people any more excuses to not come to WDW?

I don't think you understand the program. Universal's program doesn't entail having to make ride reservations before you leave home. You simply show them your room key and use the Express Line.

The new Disney system would entail making ride reservations before you leave home, months in advance. No way to compare the 2.

 

[MarkTwain]

Noticed this part in the original article:

And there are also discussions underway as to how to properly implement this NextGen virtual queuing system onboard the Disney Cruise Line.

...For WHAT!? The only times you have to get in line for ANYTHING on Disney Cruise Line are to board the ship after shore excursions, for the guest relations desk, or the occasional 5-person holdup when entering your restaurant. Unless Disney plans on unloading a collapsible interactive queue at the port of Nassau every time a ship docks there, there is no reason Disney should waste their time and money finding ways to shoehorn this idea into the cruiseline.

This, more than anything, says to me that Next Gen has abandoned any pretense of being a good idea, and is instead trying to find a way to justify its existence and its expense. Disney is realizing that they've sunk a billion plus into this idea and technology, and are now looking for every possible outlet to feature it in so they can prove the quality of their investment to the higher-ups... guest experienced be d@#ned.

I get that feeling as well. Seems like they're doing it to justify it's existence, rather than stopping to think the situation through.

Yes, this.

 

[PirateFrank]

Your perspective that this is a bad thing is BECAUSE YOU DON'T INTEND TO USE IT. For those of us who will, it will be about the coolest thing since sliced bread.

Until you wake up one day and realize that your top dollar vacation is no longer a vacation, but a painstakingly planned agenda which will require you to run from one end of the parks to the other, desperate to make 'reservations' for dining, attractions, & M&Gs. You'll be begging to get back to work to get away from the scheduling.

By the time TDO is done sodomizing the last remnants of spontaneity in these parks, the only thing you won't need a FP/XP for is to walk into a gift shop. Gee, curious! Anyone want to take a guess why?!

I sound like a broken record here only because some are refusing to consider the unanticipated consequences of rider flow to the rest of the park. You seem to think that they'll add XP, it'll just take up the space of some extra FPs and nothing will change. How can you say that with so many er, "experiences," being added to this madness? How can you say that with a Billion dollar investment into this by TDO?

The more pervasive this system becomes, the more people will be *required* to use it if they want to get anything done during their vacations. Disney is not spending in the order of Billions to make a system that siphons a few fast passes away for xpass, and leaves the general flow of things the same.

They are implementing lasting and core changes to guest flow that are going to radically change the way you vacation in WDW. Savor these next 1-2 years, because once XP takes over, it's going to affect every speck of your WDW vacations.

 

[MysticOrient]

so I have to wonder if this is tiered based on what type of resort you are staying at value - moderate - deluxe... where will the DVC members fall in? Should be deluxe but something tells me since they already have our big chunk of money, who knows

This is what I was wondering, too. It seems Disney is silently taking more and more "perks" away for those of us who've invested in DVC. When I hear the "X-Pass" is for deluxe resort guests, it makes me wonder what exactly that means.

I want to like this idea -- in my (hopeful) mind, it will mean faster wait times (meaning more control of the Fastpasses which to me are screwing up the stand-by lines), but who knows. It's a wait-and-see.

Judy

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

it also makes perfect sense for them in this economy

There are many things that make sense in this current economy, but time and time again throughout the company's history it has been proven that the equation of less product for more dollar has rarely succeeded for the company (for reference: DCA, WDS, DTV ruining the reputation of 2D animation and thus shooting down what was once one of the company's biggest sources of income, ABC pre-Lost and Desperate Housewives etc). The Disney Company isn't like most companies. It has to spend in order to gain and it seems that every time one division is reminded of that some other division forgets, in this case TDO with this idea.

 

[lebeau]

My ONLY concern is that it not be so high priced that I can't afford it. Otherwise I will love it.

That's a pretty big concern, no? The way Hill is talking, this doesn't sound like adding park hopper or DDP. I think this will be more along the lines of adding.

Do you reguarily stay in deluxe resorts? If so, would you mind paying an extra $100/day? Per person? More? If not, you mind find yourself on the other side of this real fast.

So, this is great as long as you're a "have". Being a "have" is the "best thing since sliced bread". Being a have not is a "concern". :hammer:

Noticed this part in the original article:

This, more than anything, says to me that Next Gen has abandoned any pretense of being a good idea, and is instead trying to find a way to justify its existence and its expense. Disney is realizing that they've sunk a billion plus into this idea and technology, and are now looking for every possible outlet to feature it in so they can prove the quality of their investment to the higher-ups... guest experienced be d@#ned.

Seems likely.

Until you wake up one day and realize that your top dollar vacation is no longer a vacation, but a painstakingly planned agenda which will require you to run from one end of the parks to the other, desperate to make 'reservations' for dining, attractions, & M&Gs. You'll be begging to get back to work to get away from the scheduling.

...

The more pervasive this system becomes, the more people will be *required* to use it if they want to get anything done during their vacations. Disney is not spending in the order of Billions to make a system that siphons a few fast passes away for xpass, and leaves the general flow of things the same.

They are implementing lasting and core changes to guest flow that are going to radically change the way you vacation in WDW. Savor these next 1-2 years, because once XP takes over, it's going to affect every speck of your WDW vacations.

That's definitely a worst case scenario. But it is plausible.

I for one am glad we're squeezing in a pre-xPass trip.

This is what I was wondering, too. It seems Disney is silently taking more and more "perks" away for those of us who've invested in DVC. When I hear the "X-Pass" is for deluxe resort guests, it makes me wonder what exactly that means.

I am sure as a DVC member you will eventually have the opportunity to buy this perk. But do you really want to shell out more dough on top of everything else?

 

[marni1971]

The queue outside city hall are going to be huge...

 

[Buried20KLeague]

My use of the word myopic has to do with the lofty assumptions being made by the poster, not whether he or she was taking a positive or negative slant on this.

But regardless, i'll play. What potential positives? While none of us know how Disney will manage this abortion yet, I'm not seeing many positives at all. I dont consider booking my Ohana ADR 180 days out a 'positive'...that firmly sits in the negative folder! How the eff is being forced to book TSMM (or face wasting 180 min in a standby queue) 90 days away a 'positive?'

Let's also add, the name of the game is for guests to pay for this....and please, someone tell me I'm wrong, hasn't someone already acknowledged that TDO expects an increase to standby traffic? Tell me this doesn't stink to high hell of making the free alternative less bearable to drive sales on the alternative people have to pay for? When everyone's forced into paying for this crap, it'll be a zero sum game again...

Someone expertly stated before that this is a case of fixing something that it's broken and getting to charge people for the fix...

I'm sorry if I sound a little steamed, but I really see no bright side to this madness and I welcome anyone to paint out a realistic picture without best case scenarios.

Bingo.

 

[janoimagine]

People hear buzzwords and think they're being smart when they use them.

While the details of xPass are unknown, more logical complaints seem to tie back to the fear that it will mean that the guests that don't opt for xPass will get less for the money then they would previously. This isn't a social class issue, this is an issue with cheapening the existing product in favor of a premium product.

Thanks but I am a little more educated than to just throw out buzz words.

Based on what has been hinted at, referenced, I feel that it will create guest classes, guest tier's, social classes, call it what you will it will separate people into categories within the Park's, even more so that those who choose to stay at Value Resorts, Moderate Resorts, Deluxe Resorts or DVC Owners.

Kids have enough structure in their day to day lives because of the parents who are addicted to and cannot leave their Blackberrys, iPhones, Androids in a hotel room for 8 hours. Now your going to completely plan out their vacation for them before they are even on vacation ... something is wrong with that rationale ... To me it is one more example of the downfall that has become our On-Demand society.

 

[Silver Figment]

Xpass really doesn't seem like something i'm going to like. I don't really see why it's needed i guess. What's wrong with fastpasses? :shrug: I don't see a large amount of people going for xpasses if they are going to cost extra. I know i wouldn't.