Jim Hill on XPass attraction line-up

[disneyeater]

Not really sure how I feel about this. It probably depends on the pricing.

If it is sky high, I don't expect it to be used often enough to effect my touring.

If it is low (say $5-$10 per day), I will be happy to use it as I am already doing advanced ADRs so I know what park I will be for at least part of a day.

If it is somewhere in the middle, I am not really sure.

One thing that bothers me is the sentiment of "cash grab" and "greed". Understand it is not the company's job to make the guest as happy as possible. It is their job to make as much money as possible while giving the guests just enough to keep them coming back. I just don't understand why people treat these parks like they are not a business that should try to make as much as possible for their shareholders.

 

[GLaDOS]

One thing that bothers me is the sentiment of "cash grab" and "greed". Understand it is not the company's job to make the guest as happy as possible. It is their job to make as much money as possible while giving the guests just enough to keep them coming back. I just don't understand why people treat these parks like they are not a business that should try to make as much as possible for their shareholders.

Bollocks. They already make money hand over fist. And as an entertainment company you need to find the balance of making people happy and making money. There is a point where greed comes into the equation.

 

[disneyeater]

Until you wake up one day and realize that your top dollar vacation is no longer a vacation, but a painstakingly planned agenda which will require you to run from one end of the parks to the other, desperate to make 'reservations' for dining, attractions, & M&Gs.

I enjoyed your rant. It was entertaining. However, if I painstakingly plan my agenda 6 months ahead which is what everyone is complaining about, the 1 positive to come out of it is that I won't have to "run from one end of the parks to the other, desperate to make 'reservations' for dining, attractions, & M&Gs", because I will have scheduled those to avoid that.

 

[disneyeater]

Bollocks. They already make money hand over fist. And as an entertainment company you need to find the balance of making people happy and making money. There is a point where greed comes into the equation.

Exactly. You need to find that balance and we have yet to see if this tips that balance. My guess is Disney will continue to have just as many guests come through the gates and make more money. Guests continuing to spend their money at Disney = people being happy with the product.

 

[ryguy]

As a travel planner I deal with people everyday booking Disney Trips. Most are pretty clueless about Disney World. One of the hardest things about my job is convincing people that they need to book dining reservations weeks or months in advance. They tend to be reluctant to do so, for understandable reasons. This is only going to aggravate people more. I love planning in advance but this is overkill in my humble opinion. Curious to see how the general public will react once the plan is implemented.

 

[HMButler79]

The queue outside city hall are going to be huge...

AND the HR lines at UO and SeaWorld. :lookarounI KNOW, deep down, those kids getting paid $7.75 are not gonna put up with it. Now my Ent. friends, who get paid to just dress up and pretend at $10 will probably stay cause this won't affect them in any possible way.

 

[lebeau]

One thing that bothers me is the sentiment of "cash grab" and "greed". Understand it is not the company's job to make the guest as happy as possible. It is their job to make as much money as possible while giving the guests just enough to keep them coming back. I just don't understand why people treat these parks like they are not a business that should try to make as much as possible for their shareholders.

Really, you don't understand why a company suddenly charging for a service which has historically been free would be accused of making a cash grab?

This is like those ATM fees that got slapped down a while back. Yeah, companies should try to maximize their profits. But they shouldn't do it in a way that alienates their customer base. Long term, that's not good for business.

As a travel planner I deal with people everyday booking Disney Trips. Most are pretty clueless about Disney World. One of the hardest things about my job is convincing people that they need to book dining reservations weeks or months in advance. They tend to be reluctant to do so, for understandable reasons. This is only going to aggravate people more. I love planning in advance but this is overkill in my humble opinion. Curious to see how the general public will react once the plan is implemented.

I'm not a travel planner. But in any given month, I'm helping someone plan a trip. And I run into this all the time. Usually people come to me with only weeks to throw their trip together. We're always at the tail end of the 180 window. I urge them to please make their ADRs immediately! They rarely listen. More often than not, they end up eating at counter service places.

 

[pax_65]

I enjoyed your rant. It was entertaining. However, if I painstakingly plan my agenda 6 months ahead which is what everyone is complaining about, the 1 positive to come out of it is that I won't have to "run from one end of the parks to the other, desperate to make 'reservations' for dining, attractions, & M&Gs", because I will have scheduled those to avoid that.

Again, it's not an issue of "planning vs not planning". Personally I don't like to plan out every detail of my vacation. You do. That's fine. Different strokes for different folks.

The issue is that by forcing this system upon us, Disney may not be leaving anyone any choice if you want to preserve a similar park experience as you've had in the past. Now everyone will have to plan. Worse, everyone will have to PAY to plan. The alternative is a vacation spent in the standby line because the limited number of Fastpasses were already gone.

I keep comparing it to dining. We used to make ADRs during our trip once our schedule started to shape up. Or we'd just walk-in and wait a few minutes for a table. Those days are long GONE. Now, either we make our ADRs months in advance or we don't eat at sit-down restaurants in Disney. Sadly, the later is often true... we're going in May and have ZERO ADRs at this time. We just don't like to limit ourselves and lock ourselves into a schedule when we're on vacation.

 

[captainkidd]

I keep comparing it to dining. We used to make ADRs during our trip once our schedule started to shape up. Or we'd just walk-in and wait a few minutes for a table. Those days are long GONE. Now, either we make our ADRs months in advance or we don't eat at sit-down restaurants in Disney. Sadly, the later is often true... we're going in May and have ZERO ADRs at this time. We just don't like to limit ourselves and lock ourselves into a schedule when we're on vacation.

Exactly.

Remember the days when you could go to a computer at Epcot and make dining reservations for that day?

The problem with Disney advancing technology is, they're only making things more difficult. Fastpass was the one thing they got right (for the most part.)

 

[disneyeater]

Really, you don't understand why a company suddenly charging for a service which has historically been free would be accused of making a cash grab?

This is like those ATM fees that got slapped down a while back. Yeah, companies should try to maximize their profits. But they shouldn't do it in a way that alienates their customer base. Long term, that's not good for business.

I think this is where we differ. While I think this may downgrade the average persons trip which I am not a fan of, in the long run I don't think it will alienate the customer base enough to have them revolting. Said another way, I think even with this change we will all still want to spend our money at Disney because we love it there and as long as that demand doesn't wain, there is no reason for Disney not to collect a bit more money if they can.

Do I want them to, absolutely not. Do I think it makes sense for them to....yes.

I'm not a travel planner. But in any given month, I'm helping someone plan a trip. And I run into this all the time. Usually people come to me with only weeks to throw their trip together. We're always at the tail end of the 180 window. I urge them to please make their ADRs immediately! They rarely listen. More often than not, they end up eating at counter service places.

I find this incrediably frustrating. I want your vacation to be great and that is why I am telling you to do this as soon as possible, not because I want to rush you.

I think it is just because vacations anywhere else are not like this that people have trouble adjusting to that mentality. When I am 6 months out from any other vacation I am thinking, "What do you mean I can't book anything yet?"

 

[disneyeater]

Exactly.

Remember the days when you could go to a computer at Epcot and make dining reservations for that day?

The problem with Disney advancing technology is, they're only making things more difficult. Fastpass was the one thing they got right (for the most part.)

I would hate this just like I hate running for a fastpass in the morning. Different strokes for different folks.

I agree with you and the previous poster that while you are not forced to plan out your vacation, you are forced to do so if you want to enjoy certain amenities. So if you don't like planning, you are in a tough spot.

 

[lebeau]

I think this is where we differ. While I think this may downgrade the average persons trip which I am not a fan of, in the long run I don't think it will alienate the customer base enough to have them revolting. Said another way, I think even with this change we will all still want to spend our money at Disney because we love it there and as long as that demand doesn't wain, there is no reason for Disney not to collect a bit more money if they can.

Do I want them to, absolutely not. Do I think it makes sense for them to....yes.

Sadly, I think you are right. I don't think people will get very upset. Those that get upset enough to stop going will be replaced by new guests that don't know any better. This may turn out to be a good and profitable decision for Disney.

(Tangent: Supposedly charging that $10 cancelation fee for ADRs has worked out very well for them as well. Despite being a horribly unfriendly policy for guests. I sense a trend.)

That's really not my concern. Yes, I want Disney to be successful/profitable. But I don't want them to offer me less and charge me more. As a customer, I'm going to complain until it reaches a point where it's not worth it anymore.

That's where we seem to be headed with xPass and Next Gen.

Anyway, back to the cash grab point, are you saying that a company can make any decision they want and you will never feel they are making a cheap cash grab because they are obligated to maximize their profits? Because while I understand capitalism, I also understand what a cash grab looks like.

 

[fngoofy]

I don't necessarily object to giving people the opportunity to plan every minute of their WDW vacation. Some people like doing that. I get it, that's fine. My objection is that by creating programs like these, you effectively force people to plan or have a substandard park experience. Let's face it... XPass will make Fastpasses harder to get (and use, since they now expire), and XPass will make the standby lines a little longer.

Don't think of it as a "substandard park experience", think of it as a retro experience. Back before FP we all stood in line, now you can too. I for one welcome our new XP opportunities.

 

[disneyeater]

Anyway, back to the cash grab point, are you saying that a company can make any decision they want and you will never feel they are making a cheap cash grab because they are obligated to maximize their profits? Because while I understand capitalism, I also understand what a cash grab looks like.

Well, I guess I agree it is a cash grab, but I can't really blame them for trying it since other themeparks that offer anything similar seem to charge for the perk. If they can charge for the perk and still keep customers generally happy, then I think they can justifiably do so.

 

[HMButler79]

All this drama and knowing the WDW expeirnce will end, makes me wish SaveDisney had NEVER happened. Who knew Roy and us would unknowingly put a Type-A, tech obessesed (tech is his religion?), CEO in charge. Eisner was right. Iger DOES NOT know how to run the Company! :fork:

 

[the-reason14]

I think at this point its pretty clear that Disney doesn't give a flying *explicit* about us, the fans that come back year after year. I'm guessing we're at the bottom of the list because unlike the first time guest we're not shelling out big money on souvineers and we know how to best navigate the parks, and we're impossible to please because we're always complaining about the biggest and smallest things. So I think Disney doesn't care and wants to reach the first time guest who would gladly pay extra to get an xpass for rides like imagination, nemo, SSE, and EO, when people like us know that a fastpass is never needed for those rides.

Like many have said, if they were shelling out all this money on maintenance, it may justify the ticket price increase. But if they were actually building new places to explore, new rides, shows whatever, then I'd gladly pay extra and try to book the best times to ride these new rides. But I'm not seeing nothing and the eyes are beginning to see the full picture, and even though Disney simply doesn't care they are losing me.

 

[lebeau]

I think at this point its pretty clear that Disney doesn't give a flying *explicit* about us, the fans that come back year after year. I'm guessing we're at the bottom of the list because unlike the first time guest we're not shelling out big money on souvineers and we know how to best navigate the parks, and we're impossible to please because we're always complaining about the biggest and smallest things. So I think Disney doesn't care and wants to reach the first time guest who would gladly pay extra to get an xpass for rides like imagination, nemo, SSE, and EO, when people like us know that a fastpass is never needed for those rides.

Like many have said, if they were shelling out all this money on maintenance, it may justify the ticket price increase. But if they were actually building new places to explore, new rides, shows whatever, then I'd gladly pay extra and try to book the best times to ride these new rides. But I'm not seeing nothing and the eyes are beginning to see the full picture, and even though Disney simply doesn't care they are losing me.

I was thinking the same thing. I actually think to some extent Disney would be glad to see us go. Get rid of the fans who know better. New guests will replace them and they won't even notice how far things have gone.

 

[MarkTwain]

Until you wake up one day and realize that your top dollar vacation is no longer a vacation, but a painstakingly planned agenda which will require you to run from one end of the parks to the other, desperate to make 'reservations' for dining, attractions, & M&Gs. You'll be begging to get back to work to get away from the scheduling.

By the time TDO is done sodomizing the last remnants of spontaneity in these parks, the only thing you won't need a FP/XP for is to walk into a gift shop. Gee, curious! Anyone want to take a guess why?!

I sound like a broken record here only because some are refusing to consider the unanticipated consequences of rider flow to the rest of the park. You seem to think that they'll add XP, it'll just take up the space of some extra FPs and nothing will change. How can you say that with so many er, "experiences," being added to this madness? How can you say that with a Billion dollar investment into this by TDO?

The more pervasive this system becomes, the more people will be *required* to use it if they want to get anything done during their vacations. Disney is not spending in the order of Billions to make a system that siphons a few fast passes away for xpass, and leaves the general flow of things the same.

They are implementing lasting and core changes to guest flow that are going to radically change the way you vacation in WDW. Savor these next 1-2 years, because once XP takes over, it's going to affect every speck of your WDW vacations.

Agreed.

Exactly. You need to find that balance and we have yet to see if this tips that balance. My guess is Disney will continue to have just as many guests come through the gates and make more money. Guests continuing to spend their money at Disney = people being happy with the product.

Or countless guests making their first and last trips to WDW, going to the resort because of its supposed "rite of passage" status, but ultimately deciding not spend thousands of dollars on an increasingly stressful and expensive "vacation" experience ever again. These guests leave the resort, enter the next crew of parents/families doing the same.

At this point, between "Magic, Memories, and You" campaigns, commercials that rely more on images and cartoon characters more than actual product, and merchandise devoted to attractions and logos that haven't existed for decades, Disney is banking off their nostalgia and "rite of passage" status for their success... rather than focus on creating a positive guest experience, the highest-quality show, or a relaxing vacation atmosphere. I continue to wonder, and continue to be surprised, at how long this business model will continue. Ultimately, bad word of mouth will catch up to them.

 

[lebeau]

I continue to wonder, and continue to be surprised, at how long this business model will continue. Ultimately, bad word of mouth will catch up to them.

That could take a generation.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The queue outside city hall are going to be huge...

Maybe they'll let us normal guests book a Fastpass at City Hall 180 days in advance

Not really sure how I feel about this. It probably depends on the pricing.

If it is sky high, I don't expect it to be used often enough to effect my touring.

If it is low (say $5-$10 per day), I will be happy to use it as I am already doing advanced ADRs so I know what park I will be for at least part of a day.

If it is somewhere in the middle, I am not really sure.

One thing that bothers me is the sentiment of "cash grab" and "greed". Understand it is not the company's job to make the guest as happy as possible. It is their job to make as much money as possible while giving the guests just enough to keep them coming back. I just don't understand why people treat these parks like they are not a business that should try to make as much as possible for their shareholders.

I think the price point has already been established. Disney valued the give a day get a day fastpass cards (6 Fastpasses per day) at the same price as a 1 day ticket. I expect the price point for xPass to be comparable.