jim hill gets kicked out?

[goldenstate5]

If you really want to know what happened, here it is:

Some three women had tickets to a DL tour like "Walk in Walt's Footsteps", but due to the chaos of refurbs in Main Street, they couldn't find the guided tours area (which is actually pretty easy to find since that's where you GET YOUR TICKETS!) and probably stumbled upon near the hub and Sleeping Beauty Castle where Jim starts his tours. Foolish, and on time seeing a tour group being led, they join the tour. After hearing the tour, and not going backstage like they were promised (JH's tours do not go backstage, btw [you should know that though]), they complain to City Hall about false advertising. Suddenly, somebody at the Hall thinks about it..."somebody is leading charged tours on OUR property while we have tours to offer ourselves? That's losing business!" Security is informed, and twenty minutes into the tour, they drag Jim Hill off and shove him out of the park.

My source? Myself. Was I there? Nope. Haven't been to DL in at least three months. How do I know then? Come on, this is the LOGICAL answer. Nothing Jim Hill says is negative about DL really. It's all about history. And if they heard negative things, why on earth would this three fish-out-of-water women CARE?! Do they WORK for the company? Or are they the "gee, that should be reported!" kind of girls! Listen, they were on the wrong tour, but they thought they were on the right one, and didn't get the experience they were promised. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to think about what happens next.

The question remains, too bad Cory isn't here still, because I really, really want this answered: Is Jim Hill actually banned from Disneyland? I never got that...or is he just banned from doing tours on property ever again? Because if Jim is not allowed on Disney property...hmmm...

Another thing: What do you all have aganist JH anyways? Is it really because he said a few hurtful things about your "God" General Grizz? (though I do have to side with Grizz about WoL because of CC in danger!) Or is it because he posted a few false stories? Compare his track record with Al Lutz track record. And then compared both of theirs to YOUR track record and everybody else on a Disney theme park message board. The difference? They know insiders, you don't. So don't diss them. They get a few things wrong, who cares? Just because you didn't know about the things they got right doesn't mean you haven't to banish them for the things they got wrong. Come on, everybody makes mistakes, and everybody has opinons. Get used to it...

(I have a feeling somebody's gonna pick at this post quote by quote)...

 

[PhotoDave219]

Shotty journalism is what i have against him. His reporting, his sourcing and his style. I find him to be unbalanced and slanted with his poinions and tries to twist facts to fit his conclusions.

Thats not journalism....

 

[askmike1]

Shotty journalism is what i have against him. His reporting, his sourcing and his style. I find him to be unbalanced and slanted with his poinions and tries to twist facts to fit his conclusions.

Thats not journalism....

Style-Well, that's just personal opinion.
Sourcing-What do you want him to do? Do you want him to put other people's jobs on the line just so people like you will believe the source's are real? Do you want him to make up fake names to make it more 'believable?'
Reporting- JHM is not a news site. This comes from JHM's first article

One thing I can promise you that you're *NOT* going to see the same sort of tired stuff that you get at all the other Disneyana websites. Construction pictures of Tower of Terror at DCA or someone's photo essay of their trip to Tokyo Disney Seas. You also won't get exact reprints of press releases from Disneyland's Marketing office. Nor will you get essays from 8-year-olds about what their favorite theme park ride might be.

So what will you get instead? Stories that you (hopefully) haven't heard before.
.........................
Here, you won't find stories that are deliberately downbeat about the Walt Disney Company. Nor will you find stories that are so sticky sweet about the Mouse that your teeth start to ache as you read them. But this site will (hopefully) become the place that you eventually come to if you're looking for fairly lengthy, well researched pieces about Mickey and his minions have been up to.

-Michael

 

[AEfx]

Is Jim Hill actually banned from Disneyland? I never got that...or is he just banned from doing tours on property ever again? Because if Jim is not allowed on Disney property...hmmm...

In the "article" (more of a press release with loose language in reality) he said he wasn't sure.

Um, if they said, "Mr. Hill, we are revoking your pass and you are never allowed on Disney property again", he would have known it. If they didn't tell him, he wasn't.

Hill is just trying to put a "postive" spin on this by making himself the victim, the wanted man. He wants people to write letters saying, "OH MY GOD! HOW COULD YOU DO THIS DISNEY???!!"

Oh, and again, did you notice how he worked in, less than 24-hours after this travesty on his personal rights, that he was gonna get the mouse by putting out CDs of his tours. His "nah nah nah" at the end?

It's better to look like the bad boy than to look like a guy who had no legal right to be doing what he was doing. I believe a member or two around here has had troubles with Disney in the past - I'm sure they can enlighten us as to the notification procedure. If Jim Hill isn't welcome ever at Disneyland, then he knows it.

Since he's not saying that, I'm assuming he wants the mystery to be greater than the truth.

AEfx

 

[n8patrick]

Well, I think that ClemsonTigger and Michael (and Cory) have some great points and seem to have the ability to think somewhat logically (although I'm not sure I understand your avitar Michael, I hope it is just because he has the same name as you or something funny like that!). It saddens me to see so many closed minded people trying to stick up for anything that says Disney on it, even if it isn't in the right. I should stop here though, because I am so new to this site, and I have already been misunderstood in my few posts.

 

[FamilyMan]

Hill was NOT kicked out. He was only required to stop the tours. Big difference there. he can go back to Disneyland anytime he wants, he just can't do tours anymore.

 

[wannab@dis]

Style-Well, that's just personal opinion.
Sourcing-What do you want him to do? Do you want him to put other people's jobs on the line just so people like you will believe the source's are real? Do you want him to make up fake names to make it more 'believable?'
Reporting- JHM is not a news site. This comes from JHM's first article


-Michael

the name of his site is Jim Hill Media / Media Binge.... both names have MEDIA included so therefore I assume he is attempting to be a media outlet. According to my well placed source, JHM was told not to conduct paid tours of Disneyland. Why for, you ask... well, maybe the 1st Amendment will protect his speech. Nope -- wrong yet again. Wow... that's journalism at its best!

AskMike -- Don't blame the 3 women. that's really disgusting that you can even sit there and write that mess. they were expecting a true tour of DL and have every right to complain about something going on within the park. Also, It's really interesting that your posts here at WDWMagic have been so pro disney corporate, but yet you defend JHM who is anti disney corporate. Seems confusing to me.

Aefx - you hit the nail on the head... Jim is licking his lips since all this will help him sell his CDs. I'm like you, I just hope people don't do a pre-order or they may be fleeced yet again!

 

[Lee]

Perhaps Lee can answer this, as he seems to have gone on Jim's tours before: When does Jim collect his tour fee? Is it prepaid, or does he collect at the beginning or end of the tour?

The tours are prepaid, at least that's how I did it.

Here's what's so odd about the whole mess...that these women (of apparently limited intellect) latch onto a group of people who are walking around talking about Disneyland, and somehow come to the conclusion that they are taking part in an official Disneyland tour.

They didn't meet up at the guided tour location. There was no costumed CM leading the tour (and they are hard to miss, believe me...and the thought of Jim in the hat and carrying the riding crop is rather amusing). They weren't asked to identify themselves, or to pay money on the spot. How did they even figure out it was an organized tour? It's just all a bit odd.

the name of his site is Jim Hill Media / Media Binge.... both names have MEDIA included so therefore I assume he is attempting to be a media outlet

Nope. The name implies that he, and the other columnists on the site, write about media...Disney and otherwise. He never claimed to be a reporter...he's telling stories. That is why I go to his site...to read the kind of stories he tells.

 

[wannab@dis]

The tours are prepaid, at least that's how I did it.

Here's what's so odd about the whole mess...that these women (of apparently limited intellect) latch onto a group of people who are walking around talking about Disneyland, and somehow come to the conclusion that they are taking part in an official Disneyland tour.

Again, I don't understand the attacks on the women that were mistaken about the tour. Maybe this was the first tour they had taken and maybe they didn't read a bunch of reviews about the tour. It's not a real stretch to imagine they were not as informed as many around here. They probably thought the group of people with a leader could be their group.

If Jim wanted to be sure that he didn't have any problems, he should have covered his bases... oh yeah, I bet he was sure that Disney would allow him to conduct paid tours on their property.

 

[MKCustodial]

He never claimed to be a reporter...he's telling stories. That is why I go to his site...to read the kind of stories he tells.

Same here.

I can understand why Dave has something against him, it's his opinion about the profession he's a part of. But some people here hate Jim Hill with a passion! It can't simply be because he gets stories wrong. Is it because his opinions on some stuff are different? Is it because some of his stories have a negative or critical side? That's why I like reading some of them. It's all too easy to think of Disney as perfect entity when we all know it isn't so. Of course, I'm not talking about the Magic here, I'm talking about the company and theme park management.
I remember Steve once had a thread asking us what we'd like to see on Magic. I mentioned it'd be nice if he appointed people to write articles about the parks. You know, get some hands-on opinions. And that's what JHM offers. Some articles are about stuff that's yet to come, and he has his "sources". But other articles are from people who were there, as animators or Imagineers. Can you imagine how fun it'd be to have an article here every week or so from people like Lee or MKT, who are/were on the inside and KNOW stuff?
Anyways, I digress. Back on topic. Sure, Jim is milking for all it's worth now. Any publicity is good publicity. And he got tons of it now. As for the tour groups discussion, every one has their own opinion, and even though it'd be nice to visit the parks' backstage areas and hear some stories, we all know those stories will be biased. It'd also be very nice to know what REALLY happened. And I doubt those stories are negative. No one would put himself in a position where he could get booted out of the park or even arrested just to tell bad stories...

 

[Ashitaka]

The tours are prepaid, at least that's how I did it.

Thanks for the answer Lee. At least that clears that part of it up for me. If it was all prepaid, there would have been no complaints about tour fees then, so my earlier comments on that are withdrawn. And it probably would be a little hard on Jim to constantly be checking to make sure if everyone tagging along belongs there. He probably does one check at the beginning and then moves right along with the tour. But things happen...

I do find it interesting though that on this board which seems to always recommend complaining to guest services whenever you see "bad show," that these women are being disparaged because they made a complaint (whatever that complaint may have actually been about).

 

[MKCustodial]

I do find it interesting though that on this board which seems to always recommend complaining to guest services whenever you see "bad show," that these women are being disparaged because they made a complaint (whatever that complaint may have actually been about).

Depending on what the complaint was, though, I guess they could be branded wrong.

I mean, we've established it was not about money. Maybe bad show, as in "why is the tour guide wearing a Hawaian shirt?", or as someone else mentioned, failing to go backstage, as "promised".

Although, frankly, we go back to the same argument: how could they not notice they weren't on the official tour?!? And you can't really complain about "bad show" if something is really "show" to begin with.

 

[AEfx]

Well, I think that ClemsonTigger and Michael (and Cory) have some great points and seem to have the ability to think somewhat logically (although I'm not sure I understand your avitar Michael, I hope it is just because he has the same name as you or something funny like that!). It saddens me to see so many closed minded people trying to stick up for anything that says Disney on it, even if it isn't in the right. I should stop here though, because I am so new to this site, and I have already been misunderstood in my few posts.

It has nothing to do with defending Disney, because God-knows that many of us who are critical of Jim Hill can also be critical of Disney.

To begin with, if you want to argue logical points, the discussion ends with "Disneyland is Private Property". That's all that needs to be said. Jim Hill was illegally making money off of the mouse any way you cut it - you cannot charge people to give tours of private property you are not offically authorized to. End of story.

The finer points around these now mythical "three women" really demonstrates what people believe the problems with Jim Hill are. Jim COULD have written an actual, factual article and given the events in detail. He didn't, he left out important details and also used pointed language (surprise, surprise) to make events sound more grevious than they were.

For instance, the whole part where Jim questions his "wanted man" status. If he was banned from Disney he would know it - and as someone pointed out above, it doesn't even seem as if he was asked to leave the park. Another statement later contradicts this - it's that ambiguity again.

Look, I can't speak for others, but I don't hate Jim Hill. Like many, I discovered his site and thought "WOW! How great is this!" and then over a few weeks I read the articles about attractions and such. But when you read him consistently, over time, you begin to realize that things aren't always as he'd wish to present them and that he is often pushing a specific agenda instead of an honest account.

Some of us just see JHM for what it is - a Disney tabloid. Once you get past the style (which I found cute at first, but wears thin very quickly when you start to wonder if he has his "why for's" templated on his PC) and the "sources deep inside WDI" you realize that a lot of what Hill writes is pure speculation and could be written by anyone who frequents Disney sites on the Internet. Some people don't like that characterization so they say we "hate" him (as someone who replied later did) for calling an apple an apple.

In this situation specificly, his motives in his reply were so transparent it was shocking even for him. Instead of feeling bad for Hill, most of us find it absolutely hilarious simply because he has thrown so much spit in the faces of Disney and others in his tabloid "reporting" and they finally had enough of it. I mean, seriously - how much ego does one have when they go to the house of mouse, walk in the front gates, and start CHARGING people to tell them "what could have been"?

That said, my only remaining thought is truly to reiterate again - don't preorder anything from him, guys. You'll never get it - we'll start hearing about mysterious earthquakes up there in the cold New Hampshire spring that mysteriously rendered his house unreachable. Just like all those things he promised people last year (or was it the year before?) that if they sent him money to buy him a laptop he'd do all sorts of cool things, like, you know, finishing articles that he posted beginnings of years ago and promised to conclude, and sending neat insider newsletters. It never happened, and I'm willing to bet he got more than one PayPal chargeback over it.

Hey, I go to JHM, just like I read "Star" magazine in the checkout line (and if there is something really juicy - yes, I admit, I've even BOUGHT it!); I just have no illusions (unlike JH and some of his staff) that what he presents should be taken with anything but a big healthy grain of salt or that the articles there have any more journalistic integrity than a company newsletter.

AEfx

 

[Ashitaka]

Jim COULD have written an actual, factual article and given the events in detail. He didn't, he left out important details and also used pointed language (surprise, surprise) to make events sound more grevious than they were.

I'd love to get the full details of both the Saturday tour that these women were accidentally on and the Sunday tour that was shut down.

Did the women say anything to Jim before going to city hall?

Regarding Sunday, he said "The next thing I know, I've got an Anaheim police detective advising me." How did that happen?!? How did the police get involved? Was Disney WAY overreacting or was Jim putting up a stink and the police had to be brought in?

The article just skimmed over too many important details. I hope Jim follows up with some of them. Hey, it would get all of us to check out his site again, wouldn't it?

 

[n8patrick]

It is amazing how many professional journalists we have in here! Everyone knows what journalistic integrity is, how to write professionally, etc. It is amazing. I don't know why all of you don't have your own site! (by the way, this is sarcastic, just to help you all out!)
What I am wondering, is if you consider his information "tabloid" style journalism just because he has a bit of a bias to it (which I honestly believe is not present in all the articles he writes, I would be so bold to say not even half of the articles he writes), then what the heck do you all get your "real world" news from? Cause newsflash folks, journalism is not, and unfortunately has not been for a long time if ever trully, unbiased. There is journalism, and there is news. There are articles and opinions, and there are news reports. As Lee (and I feel like someone else mentioned it too, but I don't want to read through this whole thread again) stated, Jim Hill is not and does not claim to be a reporter. But if he makes you so upset for writing his own opinions, for writing rumors from "sources" (aka real live human beings that he knows) about topics that are usually "what if's" or "what were's", I can't imagine how you live in this world and actually get informed about events that go on in this world outside of Disney (cause yes there is more world out there then Disney). Because I know for darn sure, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ABC, NBC, and CBS all have some serious biases that come through, and they are supposed to be reporting the actual news!
But I have come to the conclusion on here that there are different opinions, just like there are everywhere, and nothing I say or anyone else says will likely change the opinions of most of us on here. So, oh well! I just wish everyone would think a little more through before they talk. I try to, am not perfect by any means, but I try. And if you reply to someones message, or to an article, please at least read it a couple of times, know what you are replying to before doing so.
Just my 20 cents and I do not claim to be a professional journalist or anything like that.

Oh, and MKCustodial, I assume that means you work Custodial in the Magic Kingdom. If so, what lands and how long have you been there? I worked Custodial in the North mainly, from January to May (CP) of 2003.

 

[MKCustodial]

Oh, and MKCustodial, I assume that means you work Custodial in the Magic Kingdom. If so, what lands and how long have you been there? I worked Custodial in the North mainly, from January to May (CP) of 2003.

I was an International Program Custodial at Magic Kingdom West, from December 99 to February 2000. :wave:

 

[Ashitaka]

From MKCustodial's signature:

​

Don't I look dashing as a groom?
I got married, baby!

Off topic, but:​

Congratulations on the wedding, MKCustodial!!!

Yes, you look dashing and your wife looks lovely. :sohappy:

 

[Tim G]

Check this out. Jim Hill got kicked out of Disneyland while doing one of his "tours". Guess Disney got tired of him lying all the time.
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1356

Finally!!! They saw the light...

 

[MKCustodial]

Off topic, but:​

Congratulations on the wedding, MKCustodial!!!

Yes, you look dashing and your wife looks lovely. :sohappy: ​

Thanks! :wave:​

 

[wannab@dis]

Look, I can't speak for others, but I don't hate Jim Hill. Like many, I discovered his site and thought "WOW! How great is this!" and then over a few weeks I read the articles about attractions and such. But when you read him consistently, over time, you begin to realize that things aren't always as he'd wish to present them and that he is often pushing a specific agenda instead of an honest account.

Some of us just see JHM for what it is - a Disney tabloid. Once you get past the style (which I found cute at first, but wears thin very quickly when you start to wonder if he has his "why for's" templated on his PC) and the "sources deep inside WDI" you realize that a lot of what Hill writes is pure speculation and could be written by anyone who frequents Disney sites on the Internet. Some people don't like that characterization so they say we "hate" him (as someone who replied later did) for calling an apple an apple.

Very well put. I'm not sure that I can expound on that any more than you.

for writing rumors from "sources" (aka real live human beings that he knows)

are you sure? more than once, his "sources" have proven to be, uh, less than perfect.



I hope these 3 mysterious women get a royalty from his CD since they have proven very advantageous for JHM. :lol: