jim hill gets kicked out?

[TheOneVader]

The site has never been a recommended site to visit on WDWMAGIC. It may have been recommended by an individual, but certainly not by WDWMAGIC.

I didn't mean that it was officially recommended, but just people on the board recommended the site, and no one really said not to go there or anything.

 

[Shaman]

I'm confused now too.
I know there are certain articles that you deem as "tabloid" material. I assume that those are the articles that involve news/rumors and not history. What I was saying was that only half of what Jim writes is actuial new or rumor based. But, I don't consider Jim's new articles to be tabloid fodder. No more than any other site you might read that occassionally informs their readers of rumors that are going around. Be it MiceAge,WDWMagic, or any other site you'd care to name.

I'm sorry...chances are if its reported here (on WDWmagic.com) officially, on the main site...it will come to pass...

Nothing tabloid about Magic....

 

[PhotoDave219]

Well, I don't know is I would call it a "goof". I don't believe Jim was serious about the whole "First Amedment right" thing. If he was serious, then I disagree with him. It is fully within Disney's rights to remove anyone from their park that they feel is doing it a disservice.
But, I don't feel Jim was any danger to the park or to its reputation. I've done Jim's tours and there isn't anything offensive in there.
All that aside, Jim isn't the only person who gives "unofficial" tours inside the parks and this may set an unfortunate precedent for other people who give tours that dare to tell the stories that are not sanctioned by the Disney company.

After reading his article, i think his main problem was not differenciating that his tour is an Unofficial tour, not sanctioned by the company and not given by teh company and in no way affiliated with WDC.

Its not OUR fault that he didnt prearrange an list and take attendance to make sure only the people who were wanting to take his tour were ones who actually did.

Guest Relations was merely doing its job, IMO.

Personally, I'm a critic of Hill's style of journalism. I feel his lack of transparacy of his sources leaves a lot to be desired. I feel he lacks balance and seems to be more of a columnist, rather a journalist.

 

[Tigggrl]

Unfortunately, we don't live in an all positive world. So, when something happens that we view as negative, we will probably portray it that way.

Maybe thats why I choose to stay away from places like JHM, Mice Age and Mouse Planet. I have found that people who have to be negative and pick apart the things that are meant to be positive are not for me. :wave:

 

[wannab@dis]

Could you elaborate on the comment "lost our way"?

A few articles that I have read were from a fan's perspective, but too many are there to cause a negative impact or attempt to cause strife. I also question all the "sources" that are deep within the company.

I guess I read enough JHM articles to question his reasons for attempting to be a fan site.

 

[Hakunamatata]

. I also question all the "sources" that are deep within the company.

Maybe he should have called one of his "deep within the company" sources to keep his butt from getting the boot from the park. Or does Jim not carry a cell phone?

Hi Cory! :wave:

 

[CoryMitchell]

A few articles that I have read were from a fan's perspective, but too many are there to cause a negative impact or attempt to cause strife. I also question all the "sources" that are deep within the company.

I guess I read enough JHM articles to question his reasons for attempting to be a fan site.

Well, I guess I don't consider us a fan site either, but I still think that we are fans. So, that's why I still consider us onthe same team.

As far as the sources go, I stopped trying to explain that a while back. The bottom line is that many of Jim's sources are people who work in the industry and whose jobs depend on their anonimity. We can't name sources and then expect them to come forward with other stories in the future.

Lastly, could you give me a few examples of the type of stuff that you feel causes a "negative impact" or "causes strife".

 

[PhotoDave219]

Transparancey is still a key. Knowing where these sources - even if they are anonymous - is a key so that the reader can understand and judge the credibility of the source for themselves.

Now if you dont understand what i mean, start here -> www.Poynter.org

 

[CoryMitchell]

Ok...I'm gonna take off. I enjoyed the nice conversation while it lasted. But I don't need to be talked down to like a child. Have a good day guys.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Ok...I'm gonna take off. I enjoyed the nice conversation while it lasted. But I don't need to be talked down to like a child. Have a good day guys.

:wave: :wave: :wave:

 

[joshwill]

Although that is funny, you guys are a little harsh on Jim... I remember when I first joind the board in '02, Jim Hill was a recommended site to visit. Ever since the Grizz incident, people are always so negative...

grizz incident?

 

[HauntedSquirrel]

Okay, i've been reading this thread for a while and I for one think that this thread is very negative against Jim Hill and Cory. I like their reporting and they might not always be accurate or positive, but i like to hear about different ideas floating around. Just offering my opinon here.

 

[Erika]

grizz incident?

I'm with you- completely confused.

To be honest, I think this is the first Jim Hill thread I've ever clicked on. I know nothing about him except for small tidbits I pick up here and there from other forum members.

I still love the Mouse but lately it seems like general Disney talk has become its own form of politics.

Guess it turns out I'm not as big a fan as I thought!

 

[askmike1]

He's charging $25 per person to do a "tour" inside the park. Uhmm... doesn't the Mouse have their own tours? So, he's trying to compete with them inside THEIR park.

If this indeed is the 'official' reason Disney shut down his tour, then all he has to do is word it differently. Instead of having to pay him, there would be a suggested donation.

Also, his article tries to blame the 3 women for taking the wrong tour. Don't blame them... grow a backbone and say you screwed up.

It was the women's fault. Don't you think that if you paid for a tour, you'd make sure you were on the right tour? Also, does this man, wearing a Hawaiian shirt and no CM badge look like a tour guide host? (No offence Jim). Also wouldn't it seem weird that everyone knows his first and last name? Now, I'm not saying it is purely the women's fault, but I think the brunt lies with them.

Also, I second Cory that Jim was being funny about the constitution line (unless of course there is an amendment dealing with Disneyland)

He could have told the '3 women' they were in the wrong place and then they wouldn't have complained.

So it was his fault the people were in the wrong group. Although a headcheck would have been good in hindsight, it is not his responsibility.

Nope... no grudge

I wouldn't say no grudge at all, you're the one who gave me negative rep just for mentioning JHM.

Disney had every right to kick him out revoke his passes and have him arrested.

Arrested on what charges? He did nothing illegal.

but if you are bad mouthing the place you have to expect them to act.

Jim was not bad mouthing Disney. He talks about things that almost happened and things like that. It's not like Jim said "Everybody, Disneyland sucks. Do you see all this Decay over here? Oh, and nobody go on Winnie the Pooh, it is the worst ride Disney ever made." That's not something Jim would say (that's more like something Al Lutz would say).

Its not OUR fault that he didnt prearrange an list and take attendance to make sure only the people who were wanting to take his tour were ones who actually did.

And it's not his fault that 3 people would go on the wrong tour...STAY on it...not even talk to Jim first...and then complain that they went on the wrong tour.

Maybe thats why I choose to stay away from places like JHM, Mice Age and Mouse Planet. I have found that people who have to be negative and pick apart the things that are meant to be positive are not for me.

If you don't want to be around negativity, then say goodbye to TV, newspapers, the Internet, any part of the outside world.

grizz incident?

For the JH article, go here. For the rebuttle, go here.

As far as the sources go, I stopped trying to explain that a while back.

Don't even bother Cory. People who refuse to believe never will.

-Michael

 

[TheOneVader]

Michael pretty much covered it with the articles, but here's what I know:

Grizz was obviously against the redesign of The Land. Then Jim made an article saying that Grizz doesn't know what he's doign, and could ruin The Land's oen chance of getting remodelled (Which I actually agreed with Jim on). And then there was a big battle, pretty much. And while I agree with the majority of what Grizz says, he goes a little overboard. I mean, exposed ventilation on the M:S queue? OH MY GOD! BLASPHEMY! Really though, big deal. Who cares?

 

[mkt]

I've spoken with Jim over the phone this morning and while he isn't totally thrilledwith the situation, I think you'll be happy to know that he finds it somewhat amusing as well.

tell Jim that I can totally relate to his situation, but it is amusing

 

[Lee]

Kicking Jim out of DL for doing his tour is the dumbest thing Disneyland has done in years.
I fully admit to being a fan of Jim's, and having taken one of his tours, I didn't find anything in there that was negative toward the park or the company.
Historical? Yep.
Informative? Yep.
Entertaining? Yep.
Negative? Not in the least.

Me? I want the names of those three women so I can avoid them at all costs. Idiots like that are a danger to themselves and others. :brick:

 

[PhotoDave219]

Ok...I'm gonna take off. I enjoyed the nice conversation while it lasted. But I don't need to be talked down to like a child. Have a good day guys.

Forgive the condecention, but if youre going to act as if youre running with the big dogs of the main stream media, youre gonna have to take it as well.

Call yourself a journalist and real journalists will take shots at you. So either conform to journalistic standards or deal with people taking shots at your credibility.

 

[AEfx]

Kicking Jim out of DL for doing his tour is the dumbest thing Disneyland has done in years.
I fully admit to being a fan of Jim's, and having taken one of his tours, I didn't find anything in there that was negative toward the park or the company.
Historical? Yep.
Informative? Yep.
Entertaining? Yep.
Negative? Not in the least.

As Jim would say, that's a "mute" (sic.) point.

Negative or not, Disneyland is private property and Jim Hill was making money off of it. Jim Hill tours aren't free, right? When I first heard of his tours long ago I immediately wondered about the legality of them.

If I charge money to come inside my house, and then charge an additional fee for a tour of said house - it's not legal for some guy to come in, pay basic admission, and then start charging other paying guests to give a tour of my house making money off of it. Even if it was free (and I'd specified all that fine print about revokable admission) the guy would still be competing with my tours, reducing my profit and infringing on me.

While individuals who give walking tours may be affected by this, events that people particpate in (such as MouseFest) won't be as those events are not expressly for giving unoffical information about the parks for profit. While one can argue the harmlessness of Hill's activities, you can't blame Disney for not wanting someone walking around their parks charging for his performance.

He also doesn't give his tours in a bubble - he can't dictate who can hear what he has to say, he is giving his commentary in an open space where anyone can hear it. Can you blame Disney for wanting to uphold their image, even if the commentary is just "this really great ride would have been here, but there were budget cuts and they ended up with this attraction"?

I also laughed out loud when I saw him even mention the first ammendment - though he made an attempt at humor later in the paragraph, it was clearly worded : "To be honest, I'm not sure. I can't help but think that the First Amendment sort-of, kind-of covers this issue." Yes, I'm sure he wishes his rights were violated, but in fact he was really violating the rights of Disneyland all along.

The idea of CDs is interesting, and may be legally excusable (just like travel books), yet may not be - audio recordings have different rules than books.

Imagine that - ol' Jim won't have to be diggin' out of that cold New Hampshire snow, he could sit in his warm fuzzy slippers and make money without ever leaving his house, just burning CDs and handing them to the friendly neighborhood local mail man. You know, the one who's third cousin once poured the cup of coffee that his co-worker handed to Michael Eisner one day at Starbucks in Orlando, and just happened to overhear how Beastly Kingdom was all but a done deal until...well, I digress, and that's a story for another day.

Hmmm...I mean, here everyone is talking about it and within 24 hours he's announced his intention to start selling a whole new product! He paints himself as a victim and questions his "wanted man" status in the piece - my, isn't that fortunate? A new product to promote and a controversy! Maybe call them the "Banned Wanted Man Disneyland CD Tours"?!??!

Gee, I bet 'ol Jim is sitting back now thinking he couldn't have planned this better. A manuvering worthy of a Crawford or a Ciccone.

I'm sure he'll make a buck or two on the CDs until they all get posted to the internet - something tells me the RIAA wouldn't be shutting those sites down.

Then maybe he'll get around to finishing that Muppets series, or all the promises he made when he suckered all those poor folks into sending him money that he has never kept. I wonder if those people will be as willing to send him their cold cash again? Maybe to show good faith, he could send out the CD's COD, and then people didn't have to pay for them until he actually delivered.

For god-sake, though, don't let him talk you into a pre-order...

No one ever said tabloids weren't entertaining.

AEfx

 

[Ashitaka]

From JHM's article:

So -- yes -- Disneyland Security did shut down yesterday afternoon's JHM tour of that theme park. All because three women (Who took Saturday afternoon's JHM Disneyland tour by accident. They were somehow under the impression that the fat-bearded-man-in-the-loud-Hawaiian-shirt-who-wasn't-wearing-a- Disney-nametag was the official tour guide for their "Walk in Walt's Footsteps" tour) complained at City Hall about some of the stories that they'd heard.

To me this doesn't sound like someone accidentally overheard part of his tour, or just started wandering along with a group. Obviously there are many fairly clueless people who are at the disney parks, but that is often "Clueless" relative to us who know about the parks. Not everyone who goes knows that all CMs have the nametag. Most people will assume if there is some sort of tour going around it is an official one.

So were these three women complaining to city hall "about some of the stories they'd heard," or that they'd been charged $25 for what turned out to be an unofficial tour with no special backstage access. If they had paid, or had been asked to pay, they may have felt they had been had and thus would obviously complain.

Perhaps Lee can answer this, as he seems to have gone on Jim's tours before: When does Jim collect his tour fee? Is it prepaid, or does he collect at the beginning or end of the tour?

Because if he asked them for money, that's probably where he was in error. Hell, I don't like being asked for a quarter on my $2 subway ride. If after paying the Disneyland admission someone tried to hit me up for $25, I'd be screaming to Guest Relations too.