General Grizz
New Member
What about "The Land??"dxwwf3 said:
:lookaroun
Naw, that's closing. What about Wonders of Life? :lol:
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Jim Hill and Grizz's Call to Arms
- Thread starter FigmentJedi
- Start date
:lookaroun
Naw, that's closing. What about Wonders of Life? :lol:
darthdarrel
New Member
speck76 said:
No they do not have to check every disability,phobia..etc. But You are forgetting one thing. Disney is supposed to be for families of all ages. Yes it is nice to have some thrill rides, but the major push should be for family oriented rides.As was said "Polorization" is not the way to go. If you want thrill rides, Universal and Cedar point are the best.You mention Everest, Roller coaster. Once again polorized. There are alot of people who can not handle roller coasters.I mean it looks awesome and I will definately ride it when it is done, but again my brother Michael can not ride it and he is the one paying for the trips.
speck76
Well-Known Member
Again though, you are talking about the exceptions, not the rules.
Look at the new attractions added over the last year:
SGE - for everybody
Philharmagic - for everybody
Wishes - for everybody
Mission Space - mainly for teens and adults
So, 1 of the 4 attractions that opened in the last year is geared more towards teens and adults, (but I have ridden many time with families that had a 5-6 year old kid in the capsule, and they seemed to enjoy it)
I think my problem with Darrel's coment was that all 4 of these attractions could be "not the best" for someone with any particular condition.
Wishes.....great show, but what about those who are afraid of loud noised (see the La Nouba thread)
Philharmagic.....I love the show, as does everyone I had ever discussed the show with, but Darrel's brother has an issue with it, so is it not a good attraction?
SGE....a toned down AE, as AE was considered too intense for the kiddies, but any adult who has issues with the dark would not appreciate the ride
MS...yeah, it is intense, but it has really brought people back to Epcot. Who cares if a lot of people wont ride, a much greater number of people will ride, and it has brought people back into the park.
Rides like MS can exist in harmony with the familiy-friendly vision, what needs to happen is the symptom caused by MS (the people who wait around outside) needs to be addressed.
Look at the new attractions added over the last year:
SGE - for everybody
Philharmagic - for everybody
Wishes - for everybody
Mission Space - mainly for teens and adults
So, 1 of the 4 attractions that opened in the last year is geared more towards teens and adults, (but I have ridden many time with families that had a 5-6 year old kid in the capsule, and they seemed to enjoy it)
I think my problem with Darrel's coment was that all 4 of these attractions could be "not the best" for someone with any particular condition.
Wishes.....great show, but what about those who are afraid of loud noised (see the La Nouba thread)
Philharmagic.....I love the show, as does everyone I had ever discussed the show with, but Darrel's brother has an issue with it, so is it not a good attraction?
SGE....a toned down AE, as AE was considered too intense for the kiddies, but any adult who has issues with the dark would not appreciate the ride
MS...yeah, it is intense, but it has really brought people back to Epcot. Who cares if a lot of people wont ride, a much greater number of people will ride, and it has brought people back into the park.
Rides like MS can exist in harmony with the familiy-friendly vision, what needs to happen is the symptom caused by MS (the people who wait around outside) needs to be addressed.
darthdarrel
New Member
Well I am mainly talking about "rides"speck76 said:
I Really liked Mickeys philharmagic, but my brother couldn't breathe when they had those bursts of air comeout of the chairs.Don't get me wrong, except for Mission space I love roller coasters and thrill rides, But I do not go to Disney for the thrill rides, if I want thrill rides all I have to do is go to Cedar point, which I do quite often.
It would just be nice if I could go there with my family and have all the people in my party enjoying themselves is that too much to ask?Now rides like The Haunted mansion,Carousel of progress, Pirates of the caribean, It`s a small world These are rides that we all rode on and enjoyed. :wave:
speck76 said:
Only one new attraction is under construction - the other 2 are clones. It annoys me when TWDC announce all these `new` attractions - Soarin` is a direct copy (lazy springs to mind - they can`t get a crew together for ONE new film? Horizons had 2 omnimax theatres and these were just in the middle of the ride - not even the climax) The Stunt Show is imported from Paris (allbeit with enhancements), and Stitch is a dumb down of AE.
Yes, the MK has had some new and refurbished attractions, buit thats no reason not to start on the 20k site. Between 1973 and 1975 the MK got 6 new attractions (ok, 5 plus a refurb) - 2 E tickets, 3 D tickets and a comp attraction. There are 10 years worth of plans for this HUGE area in one of the worlds premiere theme parks. What is worrying is the trend of cheapness that seems to be predominant in the parks now (with obvious exceptions) - Aladdin spinner, Primeval Whirl, seasonal openings, meet n great in CBJ (why not keep Goofy going until a possible new show is ready? Anything better than what we have now) And lets not think of DLC`s Rocket Rods and the damage done to 3 Tomorrowland attractions (with 2 still empty)
One has to look at Tomorrowland Skyway station, The Walt Disney Story, WoL, Imaginations upper floor, the space behind MouseGear, the Odyssey etc. and saving money springs to mind. Yes, it is a business as mentioned above, but SHOWbusiness. And Disney showbusiness. Thats why we are all here - to be part of the best. Projects getting red lighted is nothing new, but when I think of what may have been - all the mountains, a finished Tomorrowland, an Energy refurb that would have been more like T2:3D in styling instead of a dumbed down show, Journeys in Space, Muppet Movie Ride, the original Sunset Blvd., Beastly Kingdom etc.... it almost hurts that TWDC seem to be content with a healthy shareholder profit, not being the best.
Sorry to rant, a bit off topic, but I had to say it. Thanks for listening.
speck76
Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
The rides may not be "new" in terms over never been created before, but they are new to WDW, and since the vast majority of visitors to WDW do not visit DL or DLP....they are new attractions.
It has been rumored that Soarin' will get a new film in 2007, which is support.....now I get to ride two versions of the ride.
AE was just an "upgrade" of Mission to Mars, which was just and upgrade to Flight to the Moon.....are you saying that AE was not really a new attraction either?
dxwwf3 said:
I actually believe that the building is of such awsome architecture (sp???) that it leaves the ride a little dissappointing after you have ridden it a couple of times. I just like the way the building looks.....
speck76 said:
Not at all. Buzz Lightyear is a new attraction, even though it still uses a 32 year old Omnimover chassis, and is the 5th attraction in that same building to do so. Mission to Mars and Alien Encounter have the same show building, layout and seating arrangement in common - that is all. Stitch shares the same environment as AE and M2M did, but c`mon - by all accounts it is AE gone soft. Same idea, same storyline (monster in centre chamber, monster escapes, lights go out..) same show equipment (not including the obvious AA, ceiling cannons etc); the preview review posted here at WDWMagic even posted how Stitch uses AE`s `audience scanner`. Same preshow AA`s and layout (not a bad thing) - Alien Encounter was a new attraction, Stitch isn`t.
Legacy
Well-Known Member
This is going back a few pages, but I wanted to respond to what Computer Magic said about not lowering expectations. I really want to clarify what I said. Yes, my expectations of Disney HAVE lowered (a large part of that is due to Universal's recent successes), but by no means does that mean I am satisfied with Disney's recent accomplishments. I am still very disappointed with the shape of Disney now; and until it returns to the glory days of the early nineties, I will be. However, with the recent management decisions that have been destroying the heart of Disney I can't honestly expect that. Disney is SUPPOSE to be the best, but it no longer is. As a result of that, it's failures no longer disappoint me. That is how my expectations have lowered. Maybe I'm picking my battles in that way of thinking, but until Imagineering, management and regular cast members as a WHOLE return to the essence of Disney and maintains it again, failed re-furbs, angry employees, incomplete attractions (which I feel Philharmagic, M:S, Test Track is) are no longer going to disappoint me. I'll just deal with them, enjoy the good parts, and reminesce of the good old days.
Hope that clarifies my stance.
Hope that clarifies my stance.
Computer Magic
Well-Known Member
Yes this clarifies and very well stated. Sorry I misinterpreted your earlier post, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.Legacy said:
Lee
Adventurer
Just a few random thoughts.
Sorry if they are a bit rambling or disjointed...it was a late night at Horror Nights last night.
The JHM article.
Eh, don't make too much out of it.
In principle, I agree with his sentiment. I am a HUGE fan of change at Disney parks, and am thrilled with the refurb of The Land. I also share his opinion of people who resist the change, just because it is a change. Those people are out there...you know who you are...the ones who would put the parks in a time capsule to preserve forever.
However, I know Grizz well enough, so to speak, to know that he doesn't have that mindset. He is all about preservation of quality...which I totally agree with and respect. Jim doesn't know Grizz. He doesn't read this site on a regular basis, and was therefore writing his article based on a "generalization", assuming that Grizz was one of the types I referred to in the above paragraph, and was sort of using it as a rant against them. I expect that Jim has been well educated on Grizz's actual opinions in the last two days, and I also expect that we will hear more from him on the subject.
Recent changes.
Mainly, I wanted to express that it is incorrect to blame WDI for most of the unpopular changes to attractions in the last few years. For the most part, WDI is "hired" by management to do their bidding.
-Dinorama? Not WDI's fault. They wanted Beastly Kingdom...management said no, had them build Dinorama instead. Few are proud of it.
-Mission:SPACE? Did what they could within the constraints of budget. Wanna hear something few realize? If you factor in all the R and D costs, the costs for develoment paid to outside contractors and consultants, demolition of Horizons, construction of a new building, installation of a new ride system, testing, etc......Mission:SPACE wound up setting the company back HUGE money. Like getting way close to the $500 mill mark. There was no way management was gonna foot the bill for an '80s style pavillion on top of all that.
-Tiki Room? Actually tests better now than before. The only thing keeping the original running at DL is the fact that DL has to be much more sensitive to the feelings of the locals, the guests that come all the time...their bread and butter.
-Imagination? Money issue...both times.
-20K? Fact. Nobody knew what to do with it, so it sat there for 10 years. Last I heard, they still didn't have a future attraction greenlit. Not WDI's fault.
-Disney Studios Paris? Same as DCA, DAK, and Hong Kong. The financial issues at Disneyland Paris put a huge fear into Eisner. He ain't gonna foot the bill for a fully-realized-on-opening day-park again. Better in his view, and that of the sharp pencil boys, to do the minimum and expand later with demand. I disagree, but that is another discussion.
Rides for everybody.
My thoughts on this are well documented, so I won't beat that poor deceased equine any further, other than to repeat my mantra....
"SOMETHING for everyone, not EVERYTHING for everyone."
Ok...enough rambling...sorry ...on with the thread. :snore:
Sorry if they are a bit rambling or disjointed...it was a late night at Horror Nights last night.
The JHM article.
Eh, don't make too much out of it.
In principle, I agree with his sentiment. I am a HUGE fan of change at Disney parks, and am thrilled with the refurb of The Land. I also share his opinion of people who resist the change, just because it is a change. Those people are out there...you know who you are...the ones who would put the parks in a time capsule to preserve forever.
However, I know Grizz well enough, so to speak, to know that he doesn't have that mindset. He is all about preservation of quality...which I totally agree with and respect. Jim doesn't know Grizz. He doesn't read this site on a regular basis, and was therefore writing his article based on a "generalization", assuming that Grizz was one of the types I referred to in the above paragraph, and was sort of using it as a rant against them. I expect that Jim has been well educated on Grizz's actual opinions in the last two days, and I also expect that we will hear more from him on the subject.
Recent changes.
Mainly, I wanted to express that it is incorrect to blame WDI for most of the unpopular changes to attractions in the last few years. For the most part, WDI is "hired" by management to do their bidding.
-Dinorama? Not WDI's fault. They wanted Beastly Kingdom...management said no, had them build Dinorama instead. Few are proud of it.
-Mission:SPACE? Did what they could within the constraints of budget. Wanna hear something few realize? If you factor in all the R and D costs, the costs for develoment paid to outside contractors and consultants, demolition of Horizons, construction of a new building, installation of a new ride system, testing, etc......Mission:SPACE wound up setting the company back HUGE money. Like getting way close to the $500 mill mark. There was no way management was gonna foot the bill for an '80s style pavillion on top of all that.
-Tiki Room? Actually tests better now than before. The only thing keeping the original running at DL is the fact that DL has to be much more sensitive to the feelings of the locals, the guests that come all the time...their bread and butter.
-Imagination? Money issue...both times.
-20K? Fact. Nobody knew what to do with it, so it sat there for 10 years. Last I heard, they still didn't have a future attraction greenlit. Not WDI's fault.
-Disney Studios Paris? Same as DCA, DAK, and Hong Kong. The financial issues at Disneyland Paris put a huge fear into Eisner. He ain't gonna foot the bill for a fully-realized-on-opening day-park again. Better in his view, and that of the sharp pencil boys, to do the minimum and expand later with demand. I disagree, but that is another discussion.
Rides for everybody.
My thoughts on this are well documented, so I won't beat that poor deceased equine any further, other than to repeat my mantra....
"SOMETHING for everyone, not EVERYTHING for everyone."
Ok...enough rambling...sorry ...on with the thread. :snore:
General Grizz
New Member
Thank you, Lee. Although we differ on the Land, I appreciate how you don't find me to be the "time-capsule" type.
According to Jim Hill, I want to save the Land because of its food court, am against the Disneyland castle painting, and don't want anything to change. One, two, three: Puh-leeze.
I also agree with you on the WDI statements. I know a lot of underdogs in WDI, Casting, and even lower management. It must really stink to have such wonderful ideas (i.e. Beastly Kingdom) and result with something like Dino-Rama. I won't give WDI that much credit with Food Rocks or JIYI, but I agree that they aren't the problem.
If anything, it's the cut-back management that seems to be killing off the entire essence of WDI. It's a sad, sad thing.
According to Jim Hill, I want to save the Land because of its food court, am against the Disneyland castle painting, and don't want anything to change. One, two, three: Puh-leeze.
I also agree with you on the WDI statements. I know a lot of underdogs in WDI, Casting, and even lower management. It must really stink to have such wonderful ideas (i.e. Beastly Kingdom) and result with something like Dino-Rama. I won't give WDI that much credit with Food Rocks or JIYI, but I agree that they aren't the problem.
If anything, it's the cut-back management that seems to be killing off the entire essence of WDI. It's a sad, sad thing.
MKCP 1985
Well-Known Member
GG,
I was sorry to see you singled out for criticism by Jim Hill in a big public effort so he could advance his own agenda. ("I'm not the loony, THEY are!") That was WRONG, and you didn't deserve that, and I'm not even mentioning he didn't have his facts straight.
Beers to you, GG. To heck with that guy.
I was sorry to see you singled out for criticism by Jim Hill in a big public effort so he could advance his own agenda. ("I'm not the loony, THEY are!") That was WRONG, and you didn't deserve that, and I'm not even mentioning he didn't have his facts straight.
Beers to you, GG. To heck with that guy.
Gregory
New Member
Jim Hill Speaks... He jsut sent me an e-mail...
He asked me not to post the e-mail, though... (which I did before reading that he asked me not to...)
I am sending it to Grizz, though... I'll post a small bit of it here, just so you can see his thoughts on Grizz...
He asked me not to post the e-mail, though... (which I did before reading that he asked me not to...)
I am sending it to Grizz, though... I'll post a small bit of it here, just so you can see his thoughts on Grizz...
Jim Hill said:
General Grizz
New Member
I promote a HIGHER-budget Land attraction (as in: remaking the film). . . my position is anything BUT cutbacks.
(P.S. Is my protest thread really being passed around at Glendale? :lookaroun I wish they'd pass around my WoL post
)
(P.S. Is my protest thread really being passed around at Glendale? :lookaroun I wish they'd pass around my WoL post
)