Jim Hill and Grizz's Call to Arms

[askmike1]

1) Polarizing...
Well, you can say that Disney should stop making 'coasters and thrill rides, but where do you draw the line. Some people can't ride Thunder Mountain, some can't ride Peter Pan, heck a lot can't ride Teacups. So does that mean Disney should only make one deifintion of attractions. No. Walt made roller coasters (Matterhorn) and WDW will too.
2) "Stitch is a dumb down of AE"
Wow, that was the best line I've seen here yet. Ok, they occupy the same building and have the same seating set up. Past that NOTHING is the same. Totally different storylines, different effects, different plot, different preshows, etc.
3) Why do I keep doing these numbered polls?
4) How many pages can this go on for?
5) Since I forget I what I was going to say, I'll stop this reply right now.

-Michael

 

[WDWScottieBoy]

I just got a rep thingy in my User CP (it was grey so I didn't get anything of it, but no name and no message so I don't know if they were trying to give me a red or green square). I wish I could find out who did it and what their intentions were with it. :hammer:

 

[Legacy]

2) "Stitch is a dumb down of AE"
Wow, that was the best line I've seen here yet. Ok, they occupy the same building and have the same seating set up. Past that NOTHING is the same. Totally different storylines, different effects, different plot, different preshows, etc.

Alien is captured in tube. Alien escapes from tube. Lights go out and alien proceeds to send guest into multi-sensory overload. Alien breaths on neck, licks guest head, whispers sweet nothings inito our ears. Yeah... totally different attraction. Skippy is still in the pre-show, and the shohw still follows the same format. Despite the story changes... it's still the same show. It's just been kid-ergized.

 

[KevinPage]

Case in point Tiki Room Under New Management is still there. So there are some mistakes that have not been changed. No offense to UNM fans, but I don't think anyone actually likes it BETTER than the original.

I DO. I also like the EPCOT wand and want to shave Grizz's furry hide and reveal him to be the long lost twin of Al Lutz. :hurl: :lol: :hurl: :lol: :hurl: :lol:

 

[Hakunamatata]

Alien is captured in tube. Alien escapes from tube. Lights go out and alien proceeds to send guest into multi-sensory overload. Alien breaths on neck, licks guest head, whispers sweet nothings inito our ears. Yeah... totally different attraction. Skippy is still in the pre-show, and the shohw still follows the same format. Despite the story changes... it's still the same show. It's just been kid-ergized.

I agree and think the point is that they removed the scarry alien and put in the cute fuzzy alien. You could substitue "alien" with Nemo, Koda, or Buzz for that fact and it still would not be a different show. It does not matter who escapes, if the "experience" is somewhat the same, I think the overall response to the attraction will be average at best.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Disinformation

This thread is perfect in the middle of our national political energy at the moment as it is an example of the deception and misinformation used by both sides. Ignore the larger issues and bigger truths, focus on one or two minor points, negate them and think you can void the entire issue. Just look how Michael Moore does it (who I enjoy for the most part):

Big truth-little truth-little truth-probable truth-possible truth-possible truth- urban legend-heresay-personal opinion. Buy the first half, than get tricked into believing the remainder. :lookaroun

Jim Hill has repeatedly demonstrated his need to be the voice of the Disney fan and Disneyana. Previous dents in that persona have generated similar personal attacks. As was previously stated in this thread...its also "a slow news day" over at JHM so he needed some filler...and I bet this provided him with a nice bump of visitors.

Now with that said, I do frequent his site. There is a lot of interesting stuff there, and like with the paper, Time or the evening news, I take it with a grain of salt as it all includes "spin".

Grizz can probably be characterized as a traditionalist, but a Disney traditionalist rather than an EPCOT '82 traditionalist. He likes animatronics and heavy theming, continuity and intelligence. I think most here respect him for that and generally agree with his thoughts (which he does not present as the only correct approach)

Seriously, folks. Is this really the sort of thing that we should be complaining about? That WDI is willing -- eager, even -- to spend money in an attempt to upgrade & improve a Future World pavilion? A collection of attractions that even the most rabid of Disneyana fans would have to admit haven't aged all that well. Shouldn't this be the sort of thing that we applaud ... rather than condemn out of hand?

The Land is not Grizz' only focus, he has repeately said that he looks forward to Soarin'. If prioritized, I would guess that this falls behind WoL and Imagination. It is a matter of continuity with the other site debacles. He also likes MS, just not as the only focus of the pavilion. He is all for the Nemoization of Living Seas. It's not adversion to change, it's adversion of doing everything over as Dinorama. I think Marni also provides a solid justification of this as well.

While there have been many thread drifts here (most of which would make superior topics for separate threads), the original thought provided two issues: 1) Was Jim Hill appropriate in his characterization of and subsequent dismissal of Grizz (I vote no ) and 2) Is improvement and change wrong, in particular to a dated Epcot (and contrary to the conclusion made by Jim Hill, I, and I believe Grizz say no. Improve away, just improve as Disney, not Six Flags)

 

[waltdisny]

I promote a HIGHER-budget Land attraction (as in: remaking the film). . . my position is anything BUT cutbacks.

(P.S. Is my protest thread really being passed around at Glendale? :lookaroun I wish they'd pass around my WoL post )

Kudos to the Grizz!:sohappy:

As for Jim Hill, remember there's no such thing as bad publicity.

 

[Computer Magic]

Improve away, just improve as Disney, not Six Flags)

This would be a great signature. Or better yet copyright and put on shirts, bumper stickers and pins. You'll make millions.

Well stated.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Just stole this from Grandmath's signature. I think it captures my thoughts much more eloquently than my monologue did:

"Whenever I get on a ride, I'm always looking at how it can be improved." Walt Disney

but note that improved and changed are not the same.

 

[General Grizz]

I appreciate what you said, ClemsonTigger. The truth finally comes out. :lol:

 

[askmike1]

Alien is captured in tube. Alien escapes from tube. Lights go out and alien proceeds to send guest into multi-sensory overload. Alien breaths on neck, licks guest head, whispers sweet nothings inito our ears. Yeah... totally different attraction. Skippy is still in the pre-show, and the shohw still follows the same format. Despite the story changes... it's still the same show. It's just been kid-ergized.

Sorry to go back to this off-topic topic, but I feel the need to reply. If this logic is correct (that SGE is just a kid-ified version of AE)... than would you say that Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, Goofy's RC, and (future) EE are the exact same ride. After all, you go up you go down. Going further, would with your thinking SSE and HM are the same ride. After all, the vehicles are the same, the motions are the same, the layout is similar, they both have animatronics, etc. SGE is not a kid-ified version of AE. Skippy remains but so do new audio animatronics. SIR has recieved an extreme makeover into SARGE, we have the whole cast of Lilo & Stitch, and we have a creature that looks like a mixture of Skippy and a Kangaroo. AE was about a CEO of a company/planet (XS) that wanted to teleport himself to earth. The signal got mixed up and an Alien was beamed instead (a different alien of course). After the alien went on a rampaging course, they trapped him back in. SGE is about Stitch (who is being held in the Galactic Prison), and somehow he gets free. Although some of the effects will be the same (fan-favorites), we will also see Stitch reek havic on all of Tomorrowland (with both a day and night version), and two huge laser turets. I am not aware about the ending, but if two things have completely different storylines and effects, you can't call them the same.

-Michael

 

[General Grizz]

I have to agree with the feeling that Stitch isn't an entirely new attraction (although I do not find this a reason to denounce the new experience). If Space and Thunder Mountains were both centered on Space Travel (as a roller coaster), then I would argue they weren't entirely new attractions.

This IS the Alien Encounter. Different facade (XS v Stitch) and target (terror v entertainment), but it's the same exact concept.

 

[LewZealand]

I have to note here that although "Stitch" is basically a new overlay of "AE". It has been toned down to bring a more family friendly attraction to the park. Which is something many people on these boards consider to be sorely lacking at the parks.

 

[dxwwf3]

Sorry to go back to this off-topic topic, but I feel the need to reply. If this logic is correct (that SGE is just a kid-ified version of AE)... than would you say that Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, Goofy's RC, and (future) EE are the exact same ride. After all, you go up you go down. Going further, would with your thinking SSE and HM are the same ride. After all, the vehicles are the same, the motions are the same, the layout is similar, they both have animatronics, etc. SGE is not a kid-ified version of AE. Skippy remains but so do new audio animatronics. SIR has recieved an extreme makeover into SARGE, we have the whole cast of Lilo & Stitch, and we have a creature that looks like a mixture of Skippy and a Kangaroo. AE was about a CEO of a company/planet (XS) that wanted to teleport himself to earth. The signal got mixed up and an Alien was beamed instead (a different alien of course). After the alien went on a rampaging course, they trapped him back in. SGE is about Stitch (who is being held in the Galactic Prison), and somehow he gets free. Although some of the effects will be the same (fan-favorites), we will also see Stitch reek havic on all of Tomorrowland (with both a day and night version), and two huge laser turets. I am not aware about the ending, but if two things have completely different storylines and effects, you can't call them the same.

-Michael

I agree with you...to a point. From the reviews we have been hearing, it seems that the attraction really doesn't LOOK all that different from AE (which is one of the reasons I would never be able to give SGE a fair chance) and that the two shows are sort of similar. But the tone and story of each attraction is totally different. SGE is aimed for kids and older people can still enjoy. It's a shame both of these couldn't have existed at the same time, but nothing's perfect. It just won't be the same in the MK for me anymore.

 

[dxwwf3]

I have to note here that although "Stitch" is basically a new overlay of "AE". It has been toned down to bring a more family friendly attraction to the park. Which is something many people on these boards consider to be sorely lacking at the parks.

Welcome to the boards!

I think more family friendly attractions are needed in all the parks.....except the Magic Kingdom :lol:

I think the MK needed something like AE to be totally different, but I guess I was wrong :animwink:

 

[LewZealand]

We should probably get this thread back on track and figure out what's going on between Grizz and Jim.
Oh and Gregory....I don't think you can expect that newsletter any sooner from Jim after you posted the e-mail after he asked you not to.:animwink:

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Oh my... You stop reading the General Discussion board for 2 days and look what happens! :lol: Right now it's kinda late so I'll post a more thoughtful post tomorrow!


BTW, this is a marvelous discussion. Keep this atmosphere. I had a blast reading through this thread.

 

[Computer Magic]

We should probably get this thread back on track and figure out what's going on between Grizz and Jim.
Oh and Gregory....I don't think you can expect that newsletter any sooner from Jim after you posted the e-mail after he asked you not to.:animwink:

Welcome to the boards.

I wonder how many of us saw the orginal post that Gregory posted. :animwink:

I'm secretly wondering if you may be Jim.

 

[General Grizz]

Seriously, friends, what HAVEN'T we discussed on this thread? :lol:

 

[WDWsmith2001]

As a frequent "Lurker" I feel compelled to write a short note (who knows why).

While many may not enjoy Jim's style he has a point here. Grizz', you got boned no doubt, using your name so frequently as the stereotypical "Disney Dweeb" is a tad harsh. However, the fact is Jim may have hit a little to close to home for many of us, (and yes, I include myself). I grew up with WDW as this wonderful escape from reality, A place where being a kid is not only accepted but encouraged. As time has passed I find myself trying to recapture a little of that magic. I too have felt true sorrow at the loss of attractions I grew up with. Remember 20K, Horizons, Mr. Toad? The list is too long and too painful to complete here. However, even the seemingly immortal Walt would have to agree, you have to rework and update to keep the magic alive. What wowed us as children may not wow our children. Grizz' your point is balls on, the redo of "Land" is off mark. It seems Future world has lost its way. The concept of a theme park with education at its core is slipping away. I still love the addition of "Soarin'" as a attendance weenie, once the new film is ready "Land" could be my new favorite pavilion. Assuming the new movie will copliment the old snooze cruise that is "Living with the Land". So let me recap this wandering blog. Jim Hill has a very sound point, unfortunately Grizz' was his means of putting it across.

If Grizz' is OK with it, I'm OK.

Long live the Grizz'
Long live the Jim'

Two guys who love Disney, more than damn near all of us.