Jim Hill and Grizz's Call to Arms

[Maerj]

My favorite line from the Jim Hill article was:

They like to dine next to the tranquil albiet-seriously-dated fountain without dealing with the crush of the crowds outside.


A fountain can be dated? What, is it too 90's for him and not 2004 enough? :lol: Okay... I guess he is really into Travel Agencies because of their timelessness!

 

[DisneyMemories]

When disney talks of changes l start to worry, to many of our favorite attractions have disapeared under the "rehab/changes" label,makes me wish they would enhance it with few changes,instead of major redesign of it. Almost makes me think about the idea l had when l first joined for a disney museaum would make a great park idea to save a bit of disney history. Ok the ideas lame but with the way disney and people like mr hill think,then those of us "weenies" who are not fond of drastic changes would still have a place to go and still relive the magic. Well got a bit carried away here,but l stand with general grizz and the rest of my fellow disneycontributeers no matter what they may call me or think of my views,last time l checked its still America and were still free and able to stand for what we belive in. "Keep fighting the good fight for our disney rights".

 

[Legacy]

I still have a wait and see approach to everything Disney has been doing recently, but I'm still very guarded about my feelings if it will succeed or not. My expectations have lowered overall. Imagineering is no longer perfect, and so I no longer hold them to as high standard that I may have ten years ago. But that does not mean I trust them. They still have potential to be amazing, but management has their hands in it to much. I blame them. Management is the reason for all of these crap-tacular rennovations.

 

[Scooter]

First off let me say this...

...Someone obviously sent something to this Jim Hill guy without consulting with Grizz first.

THIS should be the foremost focus of this Thread.

I know I would be highly ticked off if someone did this to me.
If Grizz was misquoted, misunderstood, picked on, slandered, ripped apart, or anything else, it was done because all Jim Hill knows about Grizz is whatever this "someone" sent him.

After being a member on this forum for many years now, most of us respect and know how strong Grizz feels when it comes to certain subjects about Disney and their leadership and direction.

Jim Hill doesn't know Grizz at all.

Now some of you may repeond that if Jim Hill doesn't know Grizz then he shouldn't say bad things about him in his articles...but I say if a certain "Someone" had'nt tried to get Jim Hill to Champion Grizzes cause, (again..w/o Grizz knowlege or permission) then this whole nasty article wouldn't have come out in the first place.

Whether we agree with Jim Hill or not, he was simply responding to an e-mail that he was ASK to respond to by "Someone".

Here's my 2nd thought on this article:

I don't think Jim Hill was REALLY bashing Grizz directly Per se...again..he doesn't KNOW Grizz well enough to do this...I think he was aiming his comments towards people, in general, who he THOUGHT didn't like and weren't open to change at Walt Disney World Parks.
Those of us who have come to know Grizz know that this isn't what he is all about...but again...Jill Hill doesn't know this, he doesn't frequent this board.
He can only base his oppinions on what "Someone" sent him.

I'm thinking even Grizz is chuckling about this thread. He knows what I'm talking about, and he knows that while Jim Hill can come off as being a somewhat abrasive in his articles, all in all he means well and is just expressing his own opinions...and in this case, he expressed oppinions based on the limited amount of info he had about our friend Grizz.

So in the future, lets make sure whats said on this Disscussion board STAYS on this board so this sort of thing doesn't come up again. :animwink:

 

[Computer Magic]

Interesting observation Speck76 which has merit. The glass is half full instead of half empty. So, you contribute the failure of the last few attractions to the Pressler-era. Part of management failures was bringing Pressler on board and letting him run wild without a leash. Management then gave him a hefty severance package. This is where they started losing my trust. <O</O

Even though I do enjoy the new attractions you mentioned above, current management may close some of my favorite attractions, although I admit they could use an upgrade. There are too many Meet and Greets, they have reduced the number of specialty shops, and Pin Trader shops have gone wild. For that reason, I still have the “wait and see” attitude.

Now before anyone starts bashing me, I love the characters and do have a few pins. I don't like all the real estate being used for them.


Legecy and dxwwf, I totally agree with your comments. The only slight difference with Legacy comment is, I won’t lower my expectations when it comes to Disney. Management wants us to accept mediocrity, bigger profits. I expect Disney to stand on a pedestal above everyone else. That is why I vacation there instead of other places.


This is why I salute Grizz for his efforts. He challenges management to high standards and doesn’t accept mediocrity. We need people that are willing to take a stand and not care about their image.

 

[askmike1]

1)

no replacement/bad Imagineering budget/overall "cheap" attitude in remakes (see: Imagination, overall M:S cramped nature).

Well, when I think of an attraction that uses highest-technology-available, great facade, amazing right, and costs over $100 million to make, I don't think cheap.

2)

No offense to UNM fans, but I don't think anyone actually likes it BETTER than the original.

Oh contraire, I for one love the new Tiki Room. Grizz is right about the new generation. When I went on the old TR (or should I say dragged on it), I was so bored. Now, I always want to come to it for it's humor, fun, jokes at the old TR and music.

3)

Someone obviously sent something to this Jim Hill guy without consulting with Grizz

They had all the right in the world to tell Jim about something he could have read anyway. It is not like this message board can only be read by members or Grizz put a copyright on the post. Don't get angry at someone you don't know (hmmm, where have I heard this before?)

-Michael

 

[speck76]

Interesting observation Speck76 which has merit. The glass is half full instead of half empty. So, you contribute the failure of the last few attractions to the Pressler-era. Part of management failures was bringing Pressler on board and letting him run wild without a leash. Management then gave him a hefty severance package. This is where they started losing my trust.

Even though I do enjoy the new attractions you mentioned above, current management may close some of my favorite attractions, although I admit they could use an upgrade. There are too many Meet and Greets, they have reduced the number of specialty shops, and Pin Trader shops have gone wild. For that reason, I still have the “wait and see” attitude.

Now before anyone starts bashing me, I love the characters and do have a few pins. I don't like all the real estate being used for them.

Senior managers getting golden parachutes are nothing new, and not at all unique to WDC.....it happens in EVERY company.

As for the pin trader shops, how many specialty shops have been closed to create a pin-trading shop.....I think just the one in the MK, as the Epcot and MGM pin trading shops were new builds. As for other specialty shops being changed to selling "typical" Disney stuff......the shops sell what the majority of the people will buy. Why would the park continue to sell items that only interest a few visitors, when they could and should sell items that interest the majority of the visitors. And how have pin trading shops "gone wild"? Each park (except DAK) has 1 pin-trading shop (and only the MK's location was previously a specialty shop). DAK has 2 kiosks, not entire shops.

And the meet and greets.....while I am not in favor of meet and greets replacing major attractions, this has not happened either. The closest that this has come to happening is the Toy Story meet and greet that replaced Goofy's Dancin..... in the MK, but this has only been around for a month, and as far as we know, it may only be temporary until a new show can be put in the building. Also, yes, meet and greets are going onto the old 20K land, but even WDC has said this is temporary, as it will be a few years until a major attraction is built there. (Which I think is good, I mean, MK has added 3 new attractions in the last year, and WDW needs to focus on expanding the other parks right now, not the MK, which gets the most attendance.) Another meet and greet will be opening for Figment in the old Camera Center at JII....even Grizz is happy for this. Meet and Greets are a very small part of the park, most are shoved into corners, or unused areas, so, again, I am not seeing you viewpoint.

 

[Computer Magic]

Senior managers getting golden parachutes are nothing new, and not at all unique to WDC.....it happens in EVERY company.

Just because everyone does it, doesn't make it right. It hasn't always been to this extreme in all business. I risk thread drift stating too much more

Sorry you don't get my viewpoint. Let's hope you are correct.

 

[speck76]

Just because everyone does it, doesn't make it right. It hasn't always been to this extreme in all business. I risk thread drift stating too much more

Sorry you don't get my viewpoint. Let's hope you are correct.

It may not be right in your eyes, but it is a common practice, and as considered right in the world of senior management.

Another thing to consider also is stock options that an executive gets while he is with the company. In most cases, these options must be exercised before/when the executive leaves, or they become worthless. (I get options from my company, and if I leave, I must exercise them, or I lose them....)

 

[darthdarrel]

Senior managers getting golden parachutes are nothing new, and not at all unique to WDC.....it happens in EVERY company.

As for the pin trader shops, how many specialty shops have been closed to create a pin-trading shop.....I think just the one in the MK, as the Epcot and MGM pin trading shops were new builds. As for other specialty shops being changed to selling "typical" Disney stuff......the shops sell what the majority of the people will buy. Why would the park continue to sell items that only interest a few visitors, when they could and should sell items that interest the majority of the visitors. And how have pin trading shops "gone wild"? Each park (except DAK) has 1 pin-trading shop (and only the MK's location was previously a specialty shop). DAK has 2 kiosks, not entire shops.

And the meet and greets.....while I am not in favor of meet and greets replacing major attractions, this has not happened either. The closest that this has come to happening is the Toy Story meet and greet that replaced Goofy's Dancin..... in the MK, but this has only been around for a month, and as far as we know, it may only be temporary until a new show can be put in the building. Also, yes, meet and greets are going onto the old 20K land, but even WDC has said this is temporary, as it will be a few years until a major attraction is built there. (Which I think is good, I mean, MK has added 3 new attractions in the last year, and WDW needs to focus on expanding the other parks right now, not the MK, which gets the most attendance.) Another meet and greet will be opening for Figment in the old Camera Center at JII....even Grizz is happy for this. Meet and Greets are a very small part of the park, most are shoved into corners, or unused areas, so, again, I am not seeing you viewpoint.

I have to disagree with you here, didn't Ariels Grotto replace 20,000 leagues under the sea? Infact are they not now expanding into the 20,000 leagues area? I could be wrong, but ohwell LOL!

 

[Computer Magic]

It may not be right in your eyes, but it is a common practice, and as considered right in the world of senior management.

Another thing to consider also is stock options that an executive gets while he is with the company. In most cases, these options must be exercised before/when the executive leaves, or they become worthless. (I get options from my company, and if I leave, I must exercise them, or I lose them....)

Spect76, I understand this, I have an MBA and am in a senior management position. I don't question executive getting options when leaving a company. It's how much that is given at the time of departure. What is fair value? Who should detemine this the CEO, board, shareholders?

You don't think what Pressler received was a little extensive?

Sorry everyone for the thread drift.

 

[speck76]

I have to disagree with you here, didn't Ariels Grotto replace 20,000 leagues under the sea? Infact are they not now expanding into the 20,000 leagues area? I could be wrong, but ohwell LOL!

No....you are wrong....Ariel's Grotto has been around forever, and replaced a very small stage that was rarely used in the back of FL. Temporary meet and greets will be going in to where 20K used to be, but even WDC has said this is just temporary, and as I stated before, MK does not really need a new ride right now, the got 3 new attractions in the last year.

Also, considering 20K has been closed for 10 years, I find it hard to say that anything is "replacing" 20K....it is not like 20K was closed for the sole purpose of adding meet and greets.

 

[darthdarrel]

No....you are wrong....Ariel's Grotto has been around forever, and replaced a very small stage that was rarely used in the back of FL. Temporary meet and greets will be going in to where 20K used to be, but even WDC has said this is just temporary, and as I stated before, MK does not really need a new ride right now, the got 3 new attractions in the last year.

Also, considering 20K has been closed for 10 years, I find it hard to say that anything is "replacing" 20K....it is not like 20K was closed for the sole purpose of adding meet and greets.

That may be true, but They need to build a new E ticket ride that EVERYONE can ride! I can not ride mission space and neither could either of my brothers. My brother could not take mickeys philharmagic or any of the 3D movie attractions. Disney needs more rides that everbody can get ammusement from.

 

[speck76]

Spect76, I understand this, I have an MBA and am in a senior management position. I don't question executive getting options when leaving a company. It's how much that is given at the time of departure. What is fair value? Who should detemine this the CEO, board, shareholders?

You don't think what Pressler received was a little extensive?

Well, he did have 15 years with the company, and probably was given many options and whatnot during his career with Disney.

I personally think most executive pay is extensive, but it is also a necessary evil to pay these people so highly. The CEO/Board should have all say in who gets what.....the shareholders power needs to stop at "electing the board".

 

[speck76]

That may be true, but They need to build a new E ticket ride that EVERYONE can ride! I can not ride mission space and neither could either of my brothers. My brother could not take mickeys philharmagic or any of the 3D movie attractions. Disney needs more rides that everbody can get ammusement from.

Should WDW really check every phobia, condition, disability, or disease before they build a new attraction?.......

New E-tickets are under construction.....Everest, Soarin' even the Auto Stunt Show....the MK is not where these attraction are needed right now.

 

[Computer Magic]

Well, he did have 15 years with the company, and probably was given many options and whatnot during his career with Disney.

I personally think most executive pay is extensive, but it is also a necessary evil to pay these people so highly. The CEO/Board should have all say in who gets what.....the shareholders power needs to stop at "electing the board".

Well if you seen my pay, you wouldn't think it was extensive....

You and I could talk for hours about this subject. I think we would find we agree more then disagree. We'll save if for another time.

 

[General Grizz]

Darrel does have a point. Disney has been polarizing its attractions as of recent.

Take, for instance, Mission Space. The attraction is geared toward thrill fans and thrill fans only. Sure, there are a few computers for families and a McDonalds PlayPlace for kids but nothing "out of this world." The result?

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/grixx/P1010200.jpg">

Same story for Test Track. These are great thrill rides, but I feel that in the long run, Mission Space will lose its hype (and I'm talking fifteen years down the line, assuming Universal and other parks catch up with technology). Why? Because a ride without heart or a lasting family attraction with focus on short-term thrill desires/technology (which can be replaced easily with the "next best hing") will die out when there is new technology. Look at Body Wars. The attraction became Epcot's most popular, but I don't feel it has that emotional appeal. I'm not saying Mission Space will be a ghost town (even Body Wars had roughly 8,000 a day on average by May), but Disney has to be careful in balancing thrills with Disneyesque, family attractions (i.e. WoL as a whole had several thousand more per day than Body Wars).

The kid's alternative to Mission Space and Test Track is the Journey into Imagination with Figment. But this, too, is polarized; I doubt that the new ride inspires or excites the adult riders as it would its child riders. This is the complete opposite from the original attraction which truly delighted guests of all ages. Areas like "The Image Works" (which were TRULY creative and popular) are now being shut down and replaced by cheap camera centers. What is there now just isn't as satisfying, and Disney really could help out the Imagination pavilion by reopening this area - or spreading these TYPES of attractions to Test Track and Mission Space, making them more open to the family. Soarin' now has a height requirement, as will Everest.

But attractions like Lucky the Dinosaur, Wishes, and Buzz Lightyear's SpaceRanger Spin are more of the right way to go when Disney is looking at long-term success. But if Disney constantly makes new attractions that focus on kids OR focus on adults, well, that's just not going to work. Remember that the Magic Kingdom is the most popular tourism destination because of what it has to offer to families.

Mission Space, could have, for instance, had an emotional, inspiring quality to the ride with an additional family attraction. This is the Wonders of Life model: have a great pavilion with a great theme, (be sure it's updated!), and offer something for the whole family.

As for the Meet and Greets, bah. I have no problem if they don't invade original areas. I better see great things come to the Diamond Horseshoe (meaning, an original, successful show - remember! they got rid of the popular, original show as a cost-cutting measure to lay off a well-paid, talented cast. In replacement: an UNpopular, character show - with the electric slide, no doubt. It was doomed to failure. Do you think they have really learned their lesson?) "One for the money, two for the show," as I say.

What a thread drift. Who cares.

 

[Computer Magic]

What a thread drift. Who cares.

Well the entire thread is about you, so you can take it in any direction you like.

Great post and well worth the drift.

 

[dxwwf3]

Mission Space will lose its hype

Mission Space lost it's luster for me after the 1st ride :lol:

I still like it, but I don't find it be all that thrilling or intense.


That pic you had there is a problem I noticed during my trip this summer. There needs to be places where people can sit down and rest. The Odyssey would fit this need. The Electric Umbrella just gets too crowded. There are barely enough seats for all the people that are eating there.

 

[General Grizz]

Well the entire thread is about you, so you can take it in any direction you like.

Great post and well worth the drift.

Oh, why thank you!

In that case. . .
<img src="http://www.everbe.com/Products/kitchenware/honey%20jar%202.jpg">


Honey for everyone!