It's the Tourists...

[DisneyNut2007]

Kevin Yee, Al Lutz and Miceage suck! They rag on everything WDW. I think its funny that Al Lutz made mention that DL is now getting all the upgrades that the WDW Haunted Mansion is getting. Oh really Al? Is that because you can't bare to know that WDW has something better than your beloved DL? I stopped reading Miceage months ago after I couldn't find any positive reports on WDW. That site is a joke.

Yep. That's all true. They're so desperate for attention.

Besides, DL's Mansion already has all the same upgrades and elements that WDW's Mansion is getting...and they don't have enough room in DL's Mansion for the new staircase scene. I just can't see what else in DL's Mansion they can upgrade now...

 

[Hook's Girl]

Kevin Yee has a fantastic article at(http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky082307a.htm). It should be read by every manager and imagineer at WDW.

One of my pet peeves (deletion of attractions without replacement) is covered so well by this section:

Funny, Kevin Yee is actually one of my pet peeves.

Every manager in Walt Disney World? Really? The vast majority of all managers at WDW have absolutely no say in anything in this article. Maybe if they need a good laugh though . . .

 

[Slowjack]

Kevin Yee, Al Lutz and Miceage suck! They rag on everything WDW. I think its funny that Al Lutz made mention that DL is now getting all the upgrades that the WDW Haunted Mansion is getting. Oh really Al? Is that because you can't bare to know that WDW has something better than your beloved DL? I stopped reading Miceage months ago after I couldn't find any positive reports on WDW. That site is a joke.

The odd thing is that Al was once just as negative about Disneyland, and rarely mentioned WDW. Then he became happier with how Disneyland was being run, and started inserting random critical remarks about WDW. I don't mind Kevin Yee being critical of WDW--just stating his opinion, and he's there all the time. Al presumably sees WDW rarely, and his WDW comments are often inserted into stories that aren't really about WDW, so it comes across more like "My Disney is better than your Disney!"

 

[Vernonpush]

Not necessarily. Many of the WDW AP holders that I know don't even eat in the parks, they go and visit for a few hours and leave; and they rarely purchase souvenirs, unless it is a special event, such as Star Wars weekends, etc.

Of course, my sample population may not be representative of the whole.....

Being an AP holder from AL, we usually spend more than we used to going every other year as a "tourist". We bought our first APs to get a discount at the Beach Club Resort. Once we realized how great the Deluxe Resorts were over the Values, we can not go back to a Value Resort again, thus we spend more for our Resort stay. Having an AP we also go twice a year now, thus more spending on resorts (higher grade and $$) and also on the restaurants and souveniers. So, we spend more than the average "tourist" who goes once a year or less. While what we spen per trip has increased slightly (gotta love the discounts), the frequency has quadrupled, thus the $$$ spent.

 

[jt04]

Being an AP holder from AL, we usually spend more than we used to going every other year as a "tourist". We bought our first APs to get a discount at the Beach Club Resort. Once we realized how great the Deluxe Resorts were over the Values, we can not go back to a Value Resort again, thus we spend more for our Resort stay. Having an AP we also go twice a year now, thus more spending on resorts (higher grade and $$) and also on the restaurants and souveniers. So, we spend more than the average "tourist" who goes once a year or less. While what we spen per trip has increased slightly (gotta love the discounts), the frequency has quadrupled, thus the $$$ spent.

Exactly, people will pay for the quality of the total experience as far as is possible. I am convinced WDW is still a largely under-utilized property even as big as it is now. (IMHO)

 

[CarlHS]

I concur with the thought that DL and WDW attract 2 different types of demographics. I've considered visiting DL but only for a day trip whereas all of my WDW trips are at least 5 days long.
Obviously with a park thats really only a 1 day adventure, you need to rely on AP's to keep the property filled. WDW could probably been seen in 4 days, but even w/ a week parkhopping I still feel like I dont get to see it all.
I believe his article boils down to an east-coast/west-coast grudge and to be honest, i think the world is doing a lot of great things to increase crowds year -round, pirate/princess party, star wars weekends, food n wine fest.

It's a error to believe you will see all of DL in 1 day. The MK, sure, 1 day is enough. DL is a 2 or 3 day experience to hit everything. It really equals 2 WDW parks in content.

I'm not a "West coast fan", I'm actually lobbying for MK to catch up to and surpass DL, and catch up to the other locations too... MK should be the best of it's kind, not just the most attended (which it will likely lose without expansion).

My real point is that MK (and WDW) could have both the Visitors and the APs if they delivered DL caliber rennovations and new attractions. Since 1992 the addition of Splash, the MK has had 'negative' E-Ticket growth! That's minus 1 E-Tickets in the last 15 years. PRETTY PATHETIC!

 

[no2apprentice]

What raised my eyebrow in the article was the comment about the closing of rides without replacements, and uses "keelboats, canoes, 20,000 Leagues, skyway" as examples.

PAH-LEEZE! These rides hardly did anything to help absorb the crowds (with possibly a small exception to 20,000 Leagues).

A very inaccurate and extremely biased article.

 

[ToTBellHop]

What raised my eyebrow in the article was the comment about the closing of rides without replacements, and uses "keelboats, canoes, 20,000 Leagues, skyway" as examples.

PAH-LEEZE! These rides hardly did anything to help absorb the crowds (with possibly a small exception to 20,000 Leagues).

A very inaccurate and extremely biased article.

he's trying to rehash a VERY real concern that Disneyland had in years past. At Disneyland, capacity was a major issue until very recently, and could still stand to be increased. At WDW, as I've said, I've never really viewed wait times as out of control. It is at the very cramped Disneyland where Fastpass makes walkways in Adventureland, especially, very difficult to navigate, and in the years prior to the 50th when Space Mountain was closed, the Peoplemover/Rocket Rods were not used, the old CircleVision theatre remained closed (to become Buzz Lightyear), 20K was gone along with the Skyway, and they closed their Big Thunder Ranch, it was a real problem for them. Now that they have increased capacity a good deal, it's not as bad, but with WDW's much larger themeparks and wider walkways, the only thing that I see causing overcrowding are the strollers. Wait times are manageable but late mornings into early afternoons in Fantasyland...~shivers~

We'd all love to see more rides, but even at MGM in the summer, the ToT typically has wait times in the 40 to 50 minute range, which I don't find at all unreasonable. Do we expect 20 minute waits in the summer? I don't. Soarin' and Test Track would have 4-hour waits regardless, because they are relatively low capacity, incredibly popular E-Tickets. Should've put Chevy Suburbans on the tracks at Test Track...

 

[Nicole220]

Not necessarily. Many of the WDW AP holders that I know don't even eat in the parks, they go and visit for a few hours and leave; and they rarely purchase souvenirs, unless it is a special event, such as Star Wars weekends, etc.

That's how DL AP holders are as well. The only thing I will buy is a churro or some sort of snack. I'm never there long enough to have to buy an expensive meal.

 

[lilredfoxie]

Capacity is a big problem in Epcot, World of Motion, Horizons, and Kitchen Kabaret all were high capacity attractions, WoM and Horizons were omnimovers that could handle huge crowds easily. Their replacements are slow loaders, and lack the capacity the previous rides had.

I dont want to go too off topic on this, but if I had my way, WoM would have just gotten new scenes in 96, and Horizons would have had its foundation fixed and the ride would still be running today,

 

[cm1988]

Well Disney doesn't want that many passholders. Tourists spend more money than passholders.

Very astute observations.
And as soon as those stupid celebrations stop working, the construction cranes (and ladders) will appear everywhere. However, marketing is a powerful thing these days.

 

[JimboJones123]

zzz

 

[JimboJones123]

zzz

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

The article doesn't make any sense.

WDW's attendance continues to increase year after year.

The general public is not complaining at all, only the die-hard internet Disney theme park geeks are.

WDW has survived over 30 years on tourists alone, and tourists have made WDW the most visited tourist destination on earth.

WDW is not for the AP(s), DLR is.

 

[CarlHS]

For the most part, the argument for more attractions is true, but this line you wrote has NOTHING to do with lack of rides in WDW. It has EVERYTHING to do with location, what type of person visits Disneyland these days (locals, teenagers hanging out) as compared to WDW (primarily families that have traveled there for vacation). People that visit WDW once a year, which you or Kevin said is what they should be shooting for, have no need for an annual pass every year. Simple as that...completely different subject than attraction totals and capacity.

Actually, it has to do with the lack of new rides and plussing of existings rides on a regular basis. There would be more APer's in FL if things grew, changed and improved as they do in DL. ...and more people would return each year instead of every 2 or 3 years.

 

[CarlHS]

over the year, yes. But that's not what matters. What matters is what the average guest spends on the average day, and when you consider that, tourists spend FAR more. Think of it this way: if you have 15,000,000 visitors to a park in a given year, and all of them are tourists, you will be making far more money than if all of them hold APs. That is why Disney tries to increasingly appeal to tourists.

If this is true, why is DL so profitable and getting all the funding to expand? A loyal customer who buys regularly is far more valuable than a 1-timer visitor or once in multiple years.

Also, I'm not saying not to attract those, but growth would bring in both types of customers...

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

Actually, it has to do with the lack of new rides and plussing of existings rides on a regular basis. There would be more APer's in FL if things grew, changed and improved as they do in DL. ...and more people would return each year instead of every 2 or 3 years.

I don't think so...

The Floridians I talk to don't like WDW *Especially Magic Kingdom* because of the lack of thrill rides the park has to offer.

Floridians refer to it mainly as a kid park and rarely see the "Disney Magic" people from across the country/world would see as they walk into the Magic Kingdom.

Believe me, the average Floridian wouldn't give a rat's behind whether or not Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean received some "Disney plus upgrade."

If WDW wants the AP as well as the tourists, they need to convince the locals that Disney is truly a magical place, not just a tourist trap...

 

[culturenthrills]

It is always interesting when we get into the whole WDW AP vs. DL AP. It has been discussed on other forums that the amount of WDW APers is alot higher than most people think. They may not all live as close to WDW is the DL APers live to DL but there is alot more annual passholders than many people think esp. since WDW has pushed APs alot more in the last few years than they used too.

As far as MK goes the biggest issue is upkeep. At DL there rides have gotten upgrades over the years while most of MK's have stayed the same. We are not talking just the E-tickets but also the Fantasyland dark rides. Our Peter Pan and Snow White are a joke compared to theres. Do I think MK needs another E-ticket, yes but it also needs to upgrade the current rides to the same high quality DL has. It also needs quality C and D tickets and Monsters Inc and Stitch's Great Escape just aren't cutting it. I think an expansion in Fantasyland would be a great idea. Whether it is Mermaid Lagoon or a new dark ride it would be a nice addition along with updating our stale facades. Yes, MK is the most attended park in the world but it doesn't mean it is the best and it would be nice if it returned to the quality park it was back in the early 90's.

 

[culturenthrills]

I don't think so...

The Floridians I talk to don't like WDW *Especially Magic Kingdom* because of the lack of thrill rides the park has to offer.

Floridians refer to it mainly as a kid park and rarely see the "Disney Magic" people from across the country/world would see as they walk into the Magic Kingdom.

Believe me, the average Floridian wouldn't give a rat's behind whether or not Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean received some "Disney plus upgrade."

If WDW wants the AP as well as the tourists, they need to convince the locals that Disney is truly a magical place, not just a tourist trap...

The amazing thing is when you get some of those nay saying locals to actually go to the parks they actually have a good time. I have taken a few of those people who have thought that WDW was just a kids place and they had a blast and have been going ever since.

 

[CarlHS]

Not necessarily. Many of the WDW AP holders that I know don't even eat in the parks, they go and visit for a few hours and leave; and they rarely purchase souvenirs, unless it is a special event, such as Star Wars weekends, etc.

Of course, my sample population may not be representative of the whole.....

Who do you think makes pin collecting and dining plan such a big sucess.

Everyone has a budget whether AP or Visitor and they're frugal folks in both, the real point is DL is raking in the cash off the APer's just fine, so FL could do the same with a ramp up in plussing and expansion. ...and fill rooms with more visitors too.