Rumor Is the End of Innoventions Near?

[DanielBB8]

Those CONCEPTS are not timeless, which is why they barely exist. Telling people they lack imagination is silly and insulting. People come to Disney theme parks, not to be inspired, but to be entertained with the imagination that Disney created. If the professional imagineers or creators cannot come up with something, then why are guests paying for it?

Then there’s seas, life, energy where the discussion is problematic because of perceived exploitation of those resources we want to use and conserve. They are mutually opposing goals. How can you use them without causing harm? Does Disney want to be the scold when it also charges $8 for a churro?

If you want dedication and vision, it takes a lot of brainpower and bucks. Disney just doesn’t have that creative energy especially when you see how much derivative movies it shoves down our throats with a heavy dose if wokeness that insults half the movie goers.

It can be argued on both sides that Discovery is not the goal of the Epcot. It’s about presenting the world in best light possible with optimism. Can’t we have optimism? Epcot needs to move forward instead of constantly looking backwards. Seriously, I’m done with old Epcot.

 

[Casper Gutman]

If that were true wouldn't the stuff they had in there originally still be relevant? seriously, If Epcot had this timelessness to it, where and when did it go wrong? We started going late 1990's, early 2000 and my kids thought and still think that Epcot was the dullest of the parks.
Now I admit, I must have strange kids because on vacation they wanted rides and they liked fresh stuff. Ellen's energy adventure always bored them so not sure we've every felt that Epcot was good at "edutainment". the living land?? one and done.

By the time you began visiting in the late 90s, the “timeless” EPCOT was dead or dying. Kitchen Kabaret and WoM were gone and, depending on the precise date of your visit, so were Horizons and Journey. Energy was always the least of the original classic lineup, and the Ellen overlay weakened it further. Of that original lineup, I would argue Journey, SSE, and WoM genuinely were timeless (honestly, I don’t understand why WoM is rarely given due credit as a classic on the level of HM and Pirates) while KK and Horizons needed only minor updates to stay current. The modern lineup, with the miserable M:S and lackluster TT, became out-of-date very, very quickly.

It should also be noted that everyone has different preferences. Your children may not have liked the classic EPCOT even if they had experienced it, and that’s ok. Growing up, it was my favorite park by a long shot and the one that fueled my fascination with Disney. EPCOT bred strong reactions. Some people were utterly bored by it. But for myself and many others on these boards, it was the best thing about WDW. The modern EPCOT doesn’t inspire much beyond an alcoholic stupor or a dull sense of loss amid the hollow shells of departed greatness.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I've thought for years that Disney should purchase the Discovery Channel. They could then turn one side of Innoventions into a studio where they could broadcast a few weekly shows, maybe even a daily morning show outside in front of the FoN. They could do a LOT of tie-ins with the F&W, F&G and FotA festivals. They could also produce travelogue shows with tie-ins to World Showcase. All while keeping a lot of existing Discovery Channel programming. Always seemed like such a natural partnership to me.

In view of Iger’s 12 year old boy obsession with buying content...I agree discovery would be very valuable

 

[DanielBB8]

“Discovery” cannot be a theme park, but there are plenty of Discovery Centers around the world. They cost under $40 admission and $100 family yearly membership. I bought a membership when my kid was 5 years old. My kid already outgrew it after a year so we didn’t renew. There’s no point of duplicating the Discovery concept in a theme park, just like duplicating a Zoo at Animal Kingdom. They’re rightfully returning to theme parks especially since theme parks are more lucrative and can charge higher admissions. Zoos cost $40 at most to enter, but Animal Kingdom costs well over $100 and more people attend.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

“Discovery” cannot be a theme park, but there are plenty of Discovery Centers around the world. They cost under $40 admission and $100 family yearly membership. I bought a membership when my kid was 5 years old. My kid already outgrew it after a year so we didn’t renew. There’s no point of duplicating the Discovery concept in a theme park, just like duplicating a Zoo at Animal Kingdom. They’re rightfully returning to theme parks especially since theme parks are more lucrative and can charge higher admissions. Zoos cost $40 at most to enter, but Animal Kingdom costs well over $100 and more people attend.

Name could have worked for the failed "Project Gemini"

 

[DanielBB8]

I wonder why it failed. It’s so laughing bad.

 

[PoTCGuy]

If they did they'd probably throw all of the Disney Channel stars in it..Just to jingle the keys to the kids to pay attention....

Ew... yeah you're probably right...

 

[marni1971]

If that were true wouldn't the stuff they had in there originally still be relevant? seriously, If Epcot had this timelessness to it, where and when did it go wrong? We started going late 1990's, early 2000..

Mid to late 90s. So you landed in the midst of the poop.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Name could have worked for the failed "Project Gemini"

@marni1971 @Magic Feather I know the Gemini project was scrapped but the similarities between the overall look of this and the D23 2017 blue sky concept art are obvious. Are any of these elements still being carried over into the upcoming iteration? That you know of.

 

[SteveAZee]

I can’t comment on something I don’t know about I’m afraid.

That should be everyone's New Years resolution.

 

[KCheatle]

Epcot needs a boost. No doubt. And, I wish they could figure out a way to do it without defaulting to IPs. I really love the concept of making education fun for adults and kids. I particularly miss Wonders of Life for that reason, and I feel like the World Showcase is more of a gigantic gift shop now more than anything educational.

I do wonder, though, if my childhood memories of Epcot in its "golden" years are unfair to compare it to now because memories always seem to over inflate the reality. On the other hand, it makes me think of Andy from The Office:

 

[mikejs78]

If that were true wouldn't the stuff they had in there originally still be relevant? seriously, If Epcot had this timelessness to it, where and when did it go wrong? We started going late 1990's, early 2000 and my kids thought and still think that Epcot was the dullest of the parks.
Now I admit, I must have strange kids because on vacation they wanted rides and they liked fresh stuff. Ellen's energy adventure always bored them so not sure we've every felt that Epcot was good at "edutainment". the living land?? one and done.

And Epcot is my DS8's favorite park. So one family's experience isn't necessarily representative.

The problem with Epcot wasn't (and still isn't ) in the concept - it's in the execution after 1994 or so... The original park was designed in such a way that attractions would be updated every 10 years to keep them fresh. With a few exceptions, that never happened. Instead, you got cheap replacement after cheap replacement.

They’re rightfully returning to theme parks especially since theme parks are more lucrative and can charge higher admissions.

To be a theme park you need a theme. Otherwise you have an amusement park, not a theme park. Animal Kimgdom is now the 2nd most popular Florida park, and third most popular U.S. theme park and it has the most cohesive theme out of almost any park in the country. It got to be where it is not by abandoning it's theme, but by building on it. Epcot should do the same and not just become MK 2.0. I don't know if Discovery is right or not, but Epcot needs to either build off it's theme, or find a new theme and stick to it.

 

[baymenxpac]

Epcot needs a boost. No doubt. And, I wish they could figure out a way to do it without defaulting to IPs. I really love the concept of making education fun for adults and kids. I particularly miss Wonders of Life for that reason, and I feel like the World Showcase is more of a gigantic gift shop now more than anything educational.

I do wonder, though, if my childhood memories of Epcot in its "golden" years are unfair to compare it to now because memories always seem to over inflate the reality. On the other hand, it makes me think of Andy from The Office:

View attachment 343962

great quote, and frankly, a very measured way to think about the issue. nostalgia can be a heck of a drug. it's human nature to romanticize the past.

that said...

epcot used to really be that good. and look, i get those who aren't in love with an edu-tainment concept. my first visit was in 1987, and there were plenty of days where i bemoaned spending time in epcot at the sacrifice of magic kingdom time. but i was a kid. that's what kids do. that's why we don't (or at least didn't use to) let kids pick out their own special dinner every night. you think they're going to pick anything but dino nuggets? you make a variety in the hopes of encouraging a love and curiosity of all foods.

i know i've used this analogy before, but if you eat junk food every day for dinner, it's going to be great the first few times. after a week of nothing but candy, you're going to want a freakin' vegetable. epcot was the palate cleanser. it activated different parts of the brain. where magic kingdom lets you retreat to feelings the evoke your childhood, epcot triggered your imagination for the future. and most importantly, it just was a different experience than you just had the day before at MK.

that's the biggest problem i see with all these changes. i have a horizon tattoo on my arm, so yeah, i can't stand the park losing its soul. but even if we dispense with any arguments that lean heavily on personal taste and/or nostalgia, my biggest concern would be: do you really just want to have essentially the same experience at epcot that you had at magic kingdom or hollywood studios? is that even a viable business strategy for a massive "resort" that used to pride itself on an eclectic set of offerings? seems pretty shortsighted.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Epcot needs a boost. No doubt. And, I wish they could figure out a way to do it without defaulting to IPs. I really love the concept of making education fun for adults and kids. I particularly miss Wonders of Life for that reason, and I feel like the World Showcase is more of a gigantic gift shop now more than anything educational.

I do wonder, though, if my childhood memories of Epcot in its "golden" years are unfair to compare it to now because memories always seem to over inflate the reality. On the other hand, it makes me think of Andy from The Office:

View attachment 343962

Memories do add a rosy gloss to reality, but watch Martin’s videos of WoM or Imagination or Horizons. Those were masterpieces, and they are still masterpieces when viewed through our modern, jaded eyes. No attraction Disney has opened in Orlando since ToT comes close.

 

[DanielBB8]

To be a theme park you need a theme. Otherwise you have an amusement park, not a theme park. Animal Kimgdom is now the 2nd most popular Florida park, and third most popular U.S. theme park and it has the most cohesive theme out of almost any park in the country. It got to be where it is not by abandoning it's theme, but by building on it. Epcot should do the same and not just become MK 2.0. I don't know if Discovery is right or not, but Epcot needs to either build off it's theme, or find a new theme and stick to it.

Let’s start with the name. It’s already outdated. Epcot is not the theme. It wasn’t the theme since it was opened. The acronym means nothing. I doubt they will take a major step to correct the name. It should be renamed as the Disney “World” Park. The front section should be renamed from Future World to Fantastic Adventures (yes, I’m borrowing from Universal), the rear will remain World Showcase. That’s the theme!!!

 

[jt04]

Memories do add a rosy gloss to reality, but watch Martin’s videos of WoM or Imagination or Horizons. Those were masterpieces, and they are still masterpieces when viewed through our modern, jaded eyes. No attraction Disney has opened in Orlando since ToT comes close.

Those attractions were fading in their appeal as they did not hold up well during repeat viewings for too many. If it was otherwise they wouldn't have started changing everything.

I guess this can't be repeated enough.

 

[TwilightZone]

Those attractions were fading in their appeal as they did not hold up well during repeat viewings for too many. If it was otherwise they wouldn't have started changing everything.

I guess this can't be repeated enough.

You do realize there were contracts to change the rides during a specific time period right?

 

[jt04]

You do realize there were contracts to change the rides during a specific time period right?

Is that what happened to Horizons?

 

[eliza61nyc]

Mid to late 90s. So you landed in the midst of the poop.

Lol. And can't say this is the first time it's happened.

 

[TwilightZone]

Is that what happened to Horizons?

Part of it. There was going to be a horizons 2. It was canned, too expensive.
Martin's vid on Horizons and/or mission space has more.