Is Innoventions really needed anymore?

[Figment632]

I thought that would be obvious. When United Technologies left TLS an un-sponsored orphan the pavilion degraded quickly. The sea cabs went bye-bye, the activities were out dated and barely functional and guest traffic went in the toilet. Then a great original attraction featuring a certain turtle was put in and life began to creep back into TLS. When this certain turtles clown fish friend showed up TLS almost instantly became one of the more popular places in Epcot. We got the sea cabs back along with a new dark ride, the displays are fun and interactive and the place is always packed. The only thing I regret was the loss of the Hydrolators (which IMHO was one of WDI's best illusions the have ever created) and the film the Deluge. If WDI could somehow fit in a small theater showing Deluge that you enter via a hydrolator The Seas would be just about perfect.

I have no problem with Turtle Talk I think it fits fine, and works well as an accent to TLS like Circle of lif worked well as an accent to The Land. My whole problem is not the fact that they used Nemo, but the fact that they dedicated the whole pavilion to him.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

99.9% of paying Epcot visitors are not going to care that Nemo does not belong in Future World. And those are the people who keep WDW in business, not Epcot fanboys who sit at home on Disney message boards ranting and raving about every little minute detail in the park. :brick:

Want to bet? Even "Non-Fans" can see this. Disney is held to a standard, and not just by us.

And yeah, it's a discussion board. You don't have to pay any attention to those who choose to do that. Not being rude, just stating a fact. I can't stand planning threads, so I don't read them. :lol: Simple.

I thought that would be obvious. When United Technologies left TLS an un-sponsored orphan the pavilion degraded quickly. The sea cabs went bye-bye, the activities were out dated and barely functional and guest traffic went in the toilet. Then a great original attraction featuring a certain turtle was put in and life began to creep back into TLS. When this certain turtles clown fish friend showed up TLS almost instantly became one of the more popular places in Epcot. We got the sea cabs back along with a new dark ride, the displays are fun and interactive and the place is always packed. The only thing I regret was the loss of the Hydrolators (which IMHO was one of WDI's best illusions the have ever created) and the film the Deluge. If WDI could somehow fit in a small theater showing Deluge that you enter via a hydrolator The Seas would be just about perfect.

So the ends justify the means, I know. But only for money? Only for capacity? Disney could have gotten those numbers with something original, not just something easy.

I have no problem with Turtle Talk I think it fits fine, and works well as an accent to TLS like Circle of lif worked well as an accent to The Land. My whole problem is not the fact that they used Nemo, but the fact that they dedicated the whole pavilion to him.

Exactly. TuT is the best part of that Pavilion. I love it.


(though, it could stand to be a bit more educational.)

 

[billybastion]

I don't want to get into the argument about Nemo because it's kind of a stupid argument (you're not going to change each other's opinions nor are you going to actually change Epcot by arguing here), but I do want to say that I enjoy Innoventions.

We don't stop and do everything but we usually walk through there and check stuff out as we are making our way to the other side. It's got some great educational aspects that I think would be lost if it weren't there any more.

 

[mcjaco]

I mean by your reasoning Lion KIng is popular so because of that it would fit in well in TL.

Which is why it was used for The Circle of Life.

And those damn sea cows still can't smoke or ride unicycles like common monkeys, what a gip!

I agree with your point. TLS was always "big aquarium with restaurant" too me and it still is, but now I find it more entertaining and I find the learning aspects even more in-you-face than before. Only the 20K stuff that used to be on display is missed by me at this point.

Now I shall put on my EPCOT Center fanboi flame proof suit.

See the 20K stuff was outdated too. It made sense to get rid of it. The pavilion as a whole was never very techie or futuristic, with the exception of the Hydorlators, and the diver tube. After that, it's all just an aquarium, which I can go see anytime at the Shedd here in Chicago. The displays are all the same, just painted in Nemo colors, and characters. Is Nemo futuristic? No. But the pavilion wasn't anymore either, not was it really to begin with. Then again, I don't find TT very futuristic, or The Land, or SSE, or UofE. I do still find them educational, which is really what should be the point of the whole park anyway.

As for Innoventions (I derailed this, now let's see if I can get back on track), it is absolutely needed. It's the one set of buildings that can keep up with futuristic part of FW. Small display areas for corporations to show the leading edge technology they're using or developing is a heck of a lot easier to use, adapt, update, etc., than an entire pavilion. Obviously, a lot cheaper too. Disney just needs to keep pushing to find ways to do so.

And opening the windows would help too. :animwink:

 

[Figment632]

Which is why it was used for The Circle of Life.



See the 20K stuff was outdated too. It made sense to get rid of it. The pavilion as a whole was never very techie or futuristic, with the exception of the Hydorlators, and the diver tube. After that, it's all just an aquarium, which I can go see anytime at the Shedd here in Chicago. The displays are all the same, just painted in Nemo colors, and characters. Is Nemo futuristic? No. But the pavilion wasn't anymore either, not was it really to begin with. Then again, I don't find TT very futuristic, or The Land, or SSE, or UofE. I do still find them educational, which is really what should be the point of the whole park anyway.

As for Innoventions (I derailed this, now let's see if I can get back on track), it is absolutely needed. It's the one set of buildings that can keep up with futuristic part of FW. Small display areas for corporations to show the leading edge technology they're using or developing is a heck of a lot easier to use, adapt, update, etc., than an entire pavilion. Obviously, a lot cheaper too. Disney just needs to keep pushing to find ways to do so.

And opening the windows would help too. :animwink:

I don't remeber if these windows where are they located?

 

[Frank Stallone]

99.9% of paying Epcot visitors are not going to care that Nemo does not belong in Future World. And those are the people who keep WDW in business, not Epcot fanboys who sit at home on Disney message boards ranting and raving about every little minute detail in the park. :brick:

Be careful what you say on here. These are the some of the people that don't realize that Epcot and its "Futuristic" pavilions were becoming a punchline, and needed major reimagineering.

 

[Figment632]

Be careful what you say on here. These are the some of the people that don't realize that Epcot and its "Futuristic" pavilions were becoming a punchline, and needed major reimagineering.

I guess you didn't read the entire thread? Nobody said they didn't need reimagineering we said that they should have stuck to the futuristic theme.

 

[Frank Stallone]

As far as Innoventions, I believe it has made great improvements over the past 5 years. Although every pavilion may not necessarily be about specific hands-on technologies like in the early CC days, every venue has a good message to convey, particularly to children.

Stormstruck- Home safety, storm preparation

Waste Management-Recycling waste for future use

Sum of All Thrills-Physics

Underwriters Laboratories- Durability of everyday products (and let kids burn off some of their energy)

Where's the Fire- Home fire safety

Segway Central- Ride an innovative method of transportation, and look kind of nerdy in the process

Great Piggy Bank Adventure- How to save money and spend money wisely

What's Your Problem- Hook and Loop technology (and Comedy Warehouse and AC cast members needed work)

IBM- Use motion capturing to put yourself in a video game

So most of our Innoventions venues have some form of educational message behind them, and some of them also refer to "futuristic" technology at the same time.

Innoventions, while not usually on everyone's "must see" list, is a vital attraction for Epcot

 

[Animaniac93-98]

See the 20K stuff was outdated too. It made sense to get rid of it. The pavilion as a whole was never very techie or futuristic, with the exception of the Hydorlators, and the diver tube. After that, it's all just an aquarium, which I can go see anytime at the Shedd here in Chicago. The displays are all the same, just painted in Nemo colors, and characters. Is Nemo futuristic? No. But the pavilion wasn't anymore either, not was it really to begin with. Then again, I don't find TT very futuristic, or The Land, or SSE, or UofE. I do still find them educational, which is really what should be the point of the whole park anyway.

I don't see how a small display of film memorabilia/props is outdated, it tied into the displays depicting the evolution of diving techniques and mechanisms by mentioning a famous story related to such while hinitng at Disney's past. It wasn't a huge thing saying "NOW IN THEATERS!" or such.

I agree that only the Hydrolators were futuristic and they were neat for sure but all the other things we got with Nemo far outweigh keeping them. Just be glad Nemo haters that we didn't get Ariel instead as once planned.

I also fail to see how a ride showing c. 1996 automobile testing is futuristic. The Land is futuristic in it's experimental methods of growing food, but not much else is. Universe of Energy is really dated.

FW has many issues IMO, but Nemo is nowhere near one of them.

 

[RiversideBunny]

Is Innoventions that building that has all the boring stuff in it- the one you pass on the way to Soarin'?

Tks.

 

[mcjaco]

I don't see how a small display of film memorabilia/props is outdated, it tied into the displays depicting the evolution of diving techniques and mechanisms by mentioning a famous story related to such while hinitng at Disney's past. It wasn't a huge thing saying "NOW IN THEATERS!" or such.

I think we're talking more about the hands on stuff. The dive suit that let you manipulate it's arms to turn valves, etc. Very eighties tech.

I had no problem with the queue showing you all the old submersibles, and diving equipment. It was neat.

 

[Frank Stallone]

Is Innoventions that building that has all the boring stuff in it- the one you pass on the way to Soarin'?

Tks.

Is Soarin the glorified Imax film that blows air in your face?

 

[UrbanDonovan]

Be careful what you say on here. These are the some of the people that don't realize that Epcot and its "Futuristic" pavilions were becoming a punchline, and needed major reimagineering.

These are also the same people who don't seem to realize that Disney is a publicly-traded company that has an obligation to its shareholders to produce a return on their investments. If they had it their ways, they would have the mouse run out of business in six months with all their nostalgia.

I'll admit it, I prefer the new Seas with Nemo a ton more than its previous iteration. But then again, I think the current Imagination blows chunks compared to the original. And as a matter of fact, I would prefer that Horizons and World of Motion still be in the park, but I am also a realist. The thrill rides put butts in the seats and I don't think that any amount of "plussing" could have saved those two from being perpetual walk-ons.

So, Epcot evolves and moves farther away from the original concept of EPCOT Center. But then again, EPCOT Center was a long ways away from even coming close to resembling anything remotely like Walt's idea for EPCOT. And why is that? Well, now we've come full-circle. Because the Disney company wanted to make some money.

 

[richiericher22]

Nothing it is a terrible fit.

Think about the technology it uses to actually bring it too life. But the Animal Kingdom would be a better fit for it because of the theme.

 

[richiericher22]

Technology is CONSTANTLY changing. Remember Windows Vista from 07? Well now there's Windows Seven, and there will be more. Technology just keeps getting better and better and you can't always keep up with it. Every 7 months- to about a year, newer technology is coming out so it would be impossible to keep up with it all.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Which is why it was used for The Circle of Life.



See the 20K stuff was outdated too. It made sense to get rid of it. The pavilion as a whole was never very techie or futuristic, with the exception of the Hydorlators, and the diver tube. After that, it's all just an aquarium, which I can go see anytime at the Shedd here in Chicago. The displays are all the same, just painted in Nemo colors, and characters. Is Nemo futuristic? No. But the pavilion wasn't anymore either, not was it really to begin with. Then again, I don't find TT very futuristic, or The Land, or SSE, or UofE. I do still find them educational, which is really what should be the point of the whole park anyway.

As for Innoventions (I derailed this, now let's see if I can get back on track), it is absolutely needed. It's the one set of buildings that can keep up with futuristic part of FW. Small display areas for corporations to show the leading edge technology they're using or developing is a heck of a lot easier to use, adapt, update, etc., than an entire pavilion. Obviously, a lot cheaper too. Disney just needs to keep pushing to find ways to do so.

And opening the windows would help too. :animwink:

TT, no. It isn't. The Land, or more specifically, LwtL has the Future in it. Tey rest of the pavilion has the rest of the IIE and works because of it, works...as a whole. Separate, nope.
SSE? It used to be, still could be, if that damn descent would be finished. The curtains move, you know...

UoE? Coherent in theme and topic, and DOES stray a little into the Future....it just needs to be outdated.

Agreed in Inno. Windows! Light! :lol:

I don't see how a small display of film memorabilia/props is outdated, it tied into the displays depicting the evolution of diving techniques and mechanisms by mentioning a famous story related to such while hinitng at Disney's past. It wasn't a huge thing saying "NOW IN THEATERS!" or such.

I agree that only the Hydrolators were futuristic and they were neat for sure but all the other things we got with Nemo far outweigh keeping them. Just be glad Nemo haters that we didn't get Ariel instead as once planned.

I also fail to see how a ride showing c. 1996 automobile testing is futuristic. The Land is futuristic in it's experimental methods of growing food, but not much else is. Universe of Energy is really dated.

FW has many issues IMO, but Nemo is nowhere near one of them.

Agreed in full.

Is Innoventions that building that has all the boring stuff in it- the one you pass on the way to Soarin'?

Tks.

These are also the same people who don't seem to realize that Disney is a publicly-traded company that has an obligation to its shareholders to produce a return on their investments. If they had it their ways, they would have the mouse run out of business in six months with all their nostalgia.

I'll admit it, I prefer the new Seas with Nemo a ton more than its previous iteration. But then again, I think the current Imagination blows chunks compared to the original. And as a matter of fact, I would prefer that Horizons and World of Motion still be in the park, but I am also a realist. The thrill rides put butts in the seats and I don't think that any amount of "plussing" could have saved those two from being perpetual walk-ons.

So, Epcot evolves and moves farther away from the original concept of EPCOT Center. But then again, EPCOT Center was a long ways away from even coming close to resembling anything remotely like Walt's idea for EPCOT. And why is that? Well, now we've come full-circle. Because the Disney company wanted to make some money.

I have to disagree....Sorry.

"Run them out with nostalgia"? Where do we say this? Let me be clear, I don't want rides stuck in the 70's and 80's for nostalgia. That wouldn't be EPCOT. What I want is the same concepts, ideas, themes, of EPCOT made MODERN. Don't change the park as a whole, just bring us into the future. Don't stray away into generic Discovery. Make it personal again. Making it YOUR future. Make it an adventure. Don't revert BACK to the "Land of the OmniMovers" as EPCOT Center was, but take those storues from them, and elevate them to a modern audience. Simple. Make EPCOT Center different only in presentation, not in theme and direction, too. And going back to the same quality of showmanship would help, too.

"Resembling Walt's EPCOT"...In actual concrete terms...No. It's not a city. You are right. But...Yes, it's still making money, which was a goal, and it's emboding what Walt Wanted in that city. A showplace of ingenuity. A community of Nations. It's Walt's EPCOT City...in Theme Park form. In spirit.

I don't see how it's NOT like the original EPCOT....save for the obvious difference. :lol:

 

[UrbanDonovan]

"Resembling Walt's EPCOT"...In actual concrete terms...No. It's not a city. You are right. But...Yes, it's still making money, which was a goal, and it's emboding what Walt Wanted in that city. A showplace of ingenuity. A community of Nations. It's Walt's EPCOT City...in Theme Park form. In spirit.

I don't see how it's NOT like the original EPCOT....save for the obvious difference. :lol:

We all know that Walt's head would roll over in it's refrigerated grave if he could see what his EPCOT has become. :ROFLOL:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

We all know that Walt's head would roll over in it's refrigerated grave if he could see what his EPCOT has become. :ROFLOL:

If he saw Epcot, maybe. If he saw EPCOT Center, I doubt it.

 

[UrbanDonovan]

If he saw Epcot, maybe. If he saw EPCOT Center, I doubt it.

You're kidding yourself if you think for a moment that Walt would have been happy with the original EPCOT Center.

That's what the Magic Kingdom was for, to be the financial supporter of the city. He didn't want two parks. :brick:

You know that, Explorer. You're too well-versed in all-things Disney to not know it. You're just in denial. You're criticizing Disney for changing from your ideal, when in fact, said ideal was a major change from the original plan.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

You're kidding yourself if you think for a moment that Walt would have been happy with the original EPCOT Center.

That's what the Magic Kingdom was for, to be the financial supporter of the city. He didn't want two parks. :brick:

You know that, Explorer. You're too well-versed in all-things Disney to not know it. You're just in denial. You're criticizing Disney for changing from your ideal, when in fact, said ideal was a major change from the original plan.

Nope, not kidding myself, but I do thank you for the compliments.
However...
You are right. Walt wanted a city. A city that be a "showplace of new technology that would always introducing, testing new materials and new systems. One that would be a showcase to world and a living blueprint of the future."

Instead, he got a park that did that- EPCOT Center. In it, there is the education, and the entertainment aspects of what he had set out to do.


I fail to NOT see the sprit of his ideas put into a theme park....It's there, just in a different form.:lol:

Optimistically thinking, and seeing that Walt Disney WAS realistic, while we was exceptionally creative, I think that Mr. Disney would have been thrilled that while his goal of a CITY of Tomorrow was near impossible, a park that showcases those same ideals would be much more earthly and accessible.

I'm sure he would have warmed up to the idea of a second park...He was a entertainer first, and foremost of course...:lol: