Is Epcot about to get some love?

[BrightImagine]

I am digressing here about EPCOT's vision, but hope someone somewhere will hear me out.

The USA stopped participating in World's Fairs years ago. The last ones were the 1982 Knoxville World's Fair and the 1984 New Orleans World Expo. The New Orleans Expo was a financial disaster… the only Expo to declare bankruptcy during its run! Since then there have been no Expos in the USA, and in 2001 the USA withdrew from the BIE, the organization that puts on Expos. Perhaps seeing world's fairs as a joke or a financial embarrassment, our country has lost interest in hosting or even being a part of them.

Right around the same time as the last two USA world's fairs, EPCOT Center opened, having been conceived as a "permanent World's Fair"… not just in terms of showcasing world cultures, but also in highlighting new technology. With interest in world's fairs dwindling to nonexistence since 1984… is it any wonder that the concept of Future World has suffered a long decline?

Epcot needs to step up and re-affirm its vision as a "permanent World's Fair," for the very reason that the USA doesn't participate in actual world's fairs any more. It should become once more the place for children to see the technology of the future, because they're not going to get the opportunity to see it at an Expo… at least not unless the USA rediscovers an interest in the BIE.

Please bring the futurism back to Future World.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Right on the first part, (although I wouldn't go to the extreme of saying shambles) however to your second point, even with the success of the company, they still rely on and need sponsorship for Epcot.

That's not true in that the company could build a whole new pavilion in Epcot if they wanted to. I mean, they spend billions on cruise ships, they could spend a couple hundred million to build something new. They do like getting corporate sponsorships, but that doesn't mean they rely on them.

 

[GLaDOS]

I don't think that DHS is "all but confirmed" to get an expansion.

I mean, you don't have to think it. But it's the truth.

 

[asianway]

Epcot has changed over the years, some for better, some for worse. While I love the old World of Motion, if this ride was kept in place as is, some people would probably complain about how dated it was, so they added Test Track. Not sure that Future World has some many "problems" as some people believe, though I wish they would put in a new pavilion at the old Wonders of Life pavilion, and the ending for SSE needs to be fixed, and they need to make some minor improvements regarding shade.

Anyway, attendance-wise Epcot is doing very well, it had about 10.8 million visitors last year, behind only Disneyland and Magic Kingdom in the U.S., plus Epcot has a lot of revenue from dining. The past couple of years, DHS and AK have averaged about 9.6 million guests each, give or take.

But then again, MK averages about 17 million, and Fantasyland was expanded in part because of how crowded the area gets during peak times.

Epcot attendance is down from 15 years ago, but I guess that means its doing fine...

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Epcot attendance is down from 15 years ago, but I guess that means its doing fine...

Here are the figures, attendance off a bit, but remember that ticket prices have gone up, and that Animal Kingdom opened in 1998, which did lead to cannibalization at WDW, in terms of theme park attendance. Actually, Epcot has seen a resurgence in attendance from just 8.3 million in 2002. You really cherry-picked your numbers.

2010: 10,830,000
2009: 10,990,000
2008: 10,935,000
2007: 10,900,000
2006: 10,460,000
2005: 9,900,000
2004: 9,400,000
2003: 8,600,000
2002: 8,300,000
2001: 9,000,000
2000: 10,600,000
1999: 10,100,000
1998: 10,600,000 Animal Kingdom opens.
1997: 11,800,00
1996: 11,200,00

 

[janoimagine]

That's not true in that the company could build a whole new pavilion in Epcot if they wanted to. I mean, they spend billions on cruise ships, they could spend a couple hundred million to build something new. They do like getting corporate sponsorships, but that doesn't mean they rely on them.

I never said they couldn't build their own pavilion if they wanted to ... only that they still rely on sponsorship's to do so when it comes to Epcot, for whatever reason.

 

[RobBlock]

The USA stopped participating in World's Fairs years ago. ... Perhaps seeing world's fairs as a joke or a financial embarrassment, our country has lost interest in hosting or even being a part of them.

So, which country hosted the USA pavillion that I visited at the 2010 World Expo in Shanghai?

 

[baymenxpac]

Here are the figures, attendance off a bit, but remember that ticket prices have gone up, and that Animal Kingdom opened in 1998, which did lead to cannibalization at WDW, in terms of theme park attendance. Actually, Epcot has seen a resurgence in attendance from just 8.3 million in 2002. You really cherry-picked your numbers.

2010: 10,830,000
2009: 10,990,000
2008: 10,935,000
2007: 10,900,000
2006: 10,460,000
2005: 9,900,000
2004: 9,400,000
2003: 8,600,000
2002: 8,300,000
2001: 9,000,000
2000: 10,600,000
1999: 10,100,000
1998: 10,600,000 Animal Kingdom opens.
1997: 11,800,00
1996: 11,200,00

how can you accuse someone of cherry picking numbers when you point to the 8.3 million figure in 2002 as a low-water benchmark? that number itself is artificially low because of the huge drop in tourism after 9/11.

also keep in mind that EPCOT is the center of plenty of specials that attract people, such has food and wine, garden festival, etc. so think about how many of these types of visitors comes through the EPCOT gates and consider how many people are would be knocking down EPCOT's doors without them.

the figures you give essentially depict a stagnant attendance at the WDW's second-most important park. how is that supposed to paint disney in a good light?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I never said they couldn't build their own pavilion if they wanted to ... only that they still rely on sponsorship's to do so when it comes to Epcot, for whatever reason.

Sorry, but when you said,

. . . even with the success of the company, they still rely on and need sponsorship for Epcot.

it obviously gave a different impression!

Anyway, Disney uses sponsors in parks besides Epcot, obviously. Though if they wanted to expand Epcot by adding, for example, a ride to 1 or more of the World Showcase countries, they well might have to foot the bill themselves. Especially for Future World, they wouldn't get a wealthy foreign company to foot the bill for a pavillion, but they might get a company to pay for part of a new attraction.

Nonetheless, I wouldn't Disney doesn't "rely" upon or "need" sponsorship for Epcot, at this point in time, but they certainly take the opportunity to save money via sponsors.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

the figures you give essentially depict a stagnant attendance at the WDW's second-most important park. how is that supposed to paint disney in a good light?

Epcot is third most visited Disney park in the U.S., behind Disneyland and Magic Kingdom, and it makes a lot off of the expensive dining experiences offered. Does that not make Epcot look good?

 

[ChrisM]

I don't think that DHS is "all but confirmed" to get an expansion.

One "insider" said Carsland was months away from ground breaking, or maybe 12 months away, and another said basically "possibly." Of course, the same insider promised big info about Avatarland, but that never materialized, though he/she did brag about getting into Disneyland for free and having somebody buy him/her a lot of alcohol, or something like that.

Apparently you've missed quite a bit.

Multiple sources have confirmed that a full Carsland for DHS is either greenlit, effectively greenlit, or extremely close to being greenlit. We've even heard rumblings of possible construction start and completion dates. It appears a Q1 2013 (calendar) start date is the likely target.

We have also had multiple sources providing details on the full slate of proposed Pandora/Avatarland attractions, as well as extremely recent information concerning the status of the project.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

how can you accuse someone of cherry picking numbers when you point to the 8.3 million figure in 2002 as a low-water benchmark? that number itself is artificially low because of the huge drop in tourism after 9/11.

I actually forgot about 9/11 and quickly posted some numbers, but I did it honestly by posting all the numbers for about the past 15 years. In 1996 attendance was about 11.2 million, then we had 9/11, Animal Kingdom open, even some new rides open in Epcot, and attendance is now about 10.8 million in 2010.

You could also note that during the recession Epcot's number rose slightly.

So, you can see now how you can rightfully accuse somebody of "cherry picking" when they don't post real number, and don't present the primary data for others to critique.

Hope I answered you "question."

 

[BrightImagine]

So, which country hosted the USA pavillion that I visited at the 2010 World Expo in Shanghai?

It does say that nations can have pavilions without being a member of the BIE. But the USA hasn't been a member since 2001.

 

[baymenxpac]

Epcot is third most visited Disney park in the U.S., behind Disneyland and Magic Kingdom, and it makes a lot off of the expensive dining experiences offered. Does that not make Epcot look good?

it makes it look profitable. like a place with a lot expensive restaurants, but not much in the way of theme park options, like say....attractions.

listen, i happen to love EPCOT, but not in its current form. as a repeat visitor, how much can you truly force yourself to do there?

all i'm saying is the future indicators aren't great for a park with stagnant attendance and nothing that's driving people there other than standing in line to sample some food for a couple months a year.

 

[baymenxpac]

I actually forgot about 9/11 and quickly posted some numbers, but I did it honestly by posting all the numbers for about the past 15 years. In 1996 attendance was about 11.2 million, then we had 9/11, Animal Kingdom open, even some new rides open in Epcot, and attendance is now about 10.8 million in 2010.

You could also note that during the recession Epcot's number rose slightly.

So, you can see now how you can rightfully accuse somebody of "cherry picking" when they don't post real number, and don't present the primary data for others to critique.

Hope I answered you "question."

you use those sarcastic air quotes way too judiciously. there's no reason to be snippy. i just think it's unfair to accuse someone of making the numbers say what they want when you essentially did the same thing for post-9/11 numbers (which you admittedly forgot about). and to say during the recession attendance rose slightly is a kind of a stretch. most economists pinpoint Q2 of '09 as the low point of the recession. so depending on when you want to say the recession started, you could say figures went down. but either way you slice that, you still get relatively the same attendance figures 4 years in a row.

 

[worldfanatic]

These plans fizzled like everything else. Was actually really excited about these plans....I'm sure another insider can share them with you.

Another insider???
What's this "another" thing?
That would infer you're actually one.

Or another pretend insider who pretends to know what they are talking about?

Well said.

 

[spaceghost]

Major sponsorship (i.e., Siemens) is what ruined Spaceship Earth...and every other pavilion, come to think of it.

Major sponsorship is what had made virtually every pavilion and country happen at EPCOT. So, was the whole park ruined from the day it opened?

 

[prfctlyximprct]

Epcot needs love. Animal kingdom needs love. DHS needs love. If one of the three get it, I'll be happy.

 

[Figments Friend]

personally, i'm kind of insulted by all the social media hype they did about EPCOT's 30th. it's like they think that by tweeting out a vintage horizons commercial or playing "guess which awesome attraction that is no longer here almost had a different name" trivia is going to somehow make me forget that future world, at this very moment is, really has no more than two worthwhile attractions. one of which boasts the most egregious result of dumbing down the parks (the spaceship earth narration).

so, to the OP, does EPCOT need some love. arguably more than anywhere on property. but it also needs someone with some freakin' vision at the wheel again.

Awesome post.
Thank you for this.

 

[Skyway]

I actually forgot about 9/11

Blaspheme.