Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This, Absolutely this. This is what they should be concerned about above and beyond anything else. Especially if people like what they see and experience at these other places. Marie

I have wondered for along time if the cruiselines getting modern/serious would begin to eat into the Orlando market? Signs are there

 

[Grimley1968]

They also don’t know how to manage or use the muppets correctly

IMO this is a overlooked (in comparison to their Star Wars and other mistakes) problem WDW always had. We've always enjoyed that show, but it's extremely dated now and they could always have done so much more aside from that show with that wealth of characters that bridge several generations now.

 

[TalkingHead]

Maybe tripling down on the Disney brand for all your lifestyle needs was the wrong corporate game plan.

 

[wannabeBelle]

I have wondered for along time if the cruiselines getting modern/serious would begin to eat into the Orlando market? Signs are there

I am sure that they are courting that particular demographic. More entertainment, more children's areas, more family friendly offerings onboard ships, Most things on your vacation included in the pricing you are given and the optional offerings for the most part are really optional, such as specialty restaurants. Just look at the Icon of the Seas with it's own children's friendly place onboard with a separate buffet in the same area just so families don't have to go all the way to the main buffet upstairs while having fun in the Surfside area. Also the cruise lines are looking to make the vacation planning process as simple as possible. Even more simple with the assistance of a good TA!! Marie

 

[GhostHost1000]

IMO this is a overlooked (in comparison to their Star Wars and other mistakes) problem WDW always had. We've always enjoyed that show, but it's extremely dated now and they could always have done so much more aside from that show with that wealth of characters that bridge several generations now.

Not just the show itself, but the characters as a whole. So many personalities there and opportunities but they don’t know what to do with them.

The ABC muppets tonight show that aired one season was a good attempt but failed. Their last movie was bad too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am sure that they are courting that particular demographic. More entertainment, more children's areas, more family friendly offerings onboard ships, Most things on your vacation included in the pricing you are given and the optional offerings for the most part are really optional, such as specialty restaurants. Just look at the Icon of the Seas with it's own children's friendly place onboard with a separate buffet in the same area just so families don't have to go all the way to the main buffet upstairs while having fun in the Surfside area. Also the cruise lines are looking to make the vacation planning process as simple as possible. Even more simple with the assistance of a good TA!! Marie

I’m debating Icon or a trip to include Pairi Diaza for next spring…

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Whenever we have gone to Universal we have booked a Premium resort with the " Stay More Save More " discount which is 30% for 7 or more days. So last December we had a waterview King bad room at Royal Pacific which gives EP for length of stay for $299 per night. We have always been able to get that deal.

Problem is those rooms seem to be harder to get and there is zero chance we would be paying $500 per night for that room. Also zero chance we would be paying $200 per day per person to buy EP and stay at a cheaper resort.

So if those type of deals aren't accessible we will most likely just cross Orlando off the list of possible vacation spots. Unfortunate because we love it there, but we won't be gouged. Tons of other places to go.

I also am interested to see how hotel pricing is when EU opens and which hotels (if any) give EP valid at EU (heard some talk there won't even be EP at EU when it first opens

Those Premier hotels are great for now (we stayed at one for ~$400/night but with 5 people in it getting EP for everyone for every day) .... But if they go way up in price or don't have same benefit with the resorts not be looked at as favorably

 

[GhostHost1000]

I’m debating Icon or a trip to include Pairi Diaza for next spring…

Bob will not be happy. Hopefully a new popcorn bucket, cupcake, or even an amazing AP magnet will persuade you otherwise lol

 

[lentesta]

Grumblings in the swamp land they want to push up to spring…you hear any of that?

I'd heard they *wanted* spring. But technical and construction issues have them early summer as far as I can sus out.

That was as of last month. I don't know if throwing money at it would help.

 

[wannabeBelle]

I’m debating Icon or a trip to include Pairi Diaza for next spring…

Flam Norway is pretty stunning as well, check out my view from there in May of this year:

 

[Saskdw]

I also am interested to see how hotel pricing is when EU opens and which hotels (if any) give EP valid at EU (heard some talk there won't even be EP at EU when it first opens

Those Premier hotels are great for now (we stayed at one for ~$400/night but with 5 people in it getting EP for everyone for every day) .... But if they go way up in price or don't have same benefit with the resorts not be looked at as favorably

From a semi-reliable source they are adding Sapphire Falls to the premier resorts along with the Helios at Epic.

Speculation is the the 4 older resorts will get EP for the 2 original parks and Helios will get EP for Epic. Not sure if it will have EP at opening though or later on.

I believe their strategy is going to be to try and make this a week long vacation destination for most people. They will do this by having incentives to visit the other 2 parks. I think those that just want to spend a day or 2 at Epic will have to open the their wallets very wide. I'm very curious to see how this plays out.

 

[lentesta]

Also, I'm not sure Disney's in the same boat as Universal.

Quoting myself from April 22:

I've heard credible estimates of a low-end of $500MM in domestic G+ revenue, not counting ILL, and estimates as high as $1B with both.

I'd ballparked a guess of $800MM for domestic G+ and ILL combined, and I still think that's a decent estimate.

Two things:

1. I am very comfortable with that ballpark estimate for FY24
2. I think there's room to increase G+ revenue by adjusting daily pricing - there's a lot of money still on the table

Say what you (and I) will about park quality, Imagineering, hotel design, etc. These folks understand data and know how to do revenue optimization really, really well. They're quants who happen to make movies & TV shows, and run theme parks.

Comcast is doing the right things, but they don't yet possess the analytical capabililties of Disney.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

From a semi-reliable source they are adding Sapphire Falls to the premier resorts along with the Helios at Epic.

Speculation is the the 4 older resorts will get EP for the 2 original parks and Helios will get EP for Epic. Not sure if it will have EP at opening though or later on.

I believe their strategy is going to be to try and make this a week long vacation destination for most people. They will do this by having incentives to visit the other 2 parks. I think those that just want to spend a day or 2 at Epic will have to open the their wallets very wide. I'm very curious to see how this plays out.

Sign me up for Sapphire with express pass

Yes please !

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Also, I'm not sure Disney's in the same boat as Universal.

Quoting myself from April 22:


Two things:

1. I am very comfortable with that ballpark estimate for FY24
2. I think there's room to increase G+ revenue by adjusting daily pricing - there's a lot of money still on the table

Say what you (and I) will about park quality, Imagineering, hotel design, etc. These folks understand data and know how to do revenue optimization really, really well. They're quants who happen to make movies & TV shows, and run theme parks.

Comcast is doing the right things, but they don't yet possess the analytical capabililties of Disney.

If those estimates are steady then they should be discounting tickets, rooms to get people into the parks

You say they’re good at quants…but they lose easy profits each day they lose foot traffic

This is like Disney:101 easy stuff

 

[jpinkc]

Ok I keep hearing that attendance is down, but whenever I peruse a Live Stream from the parks they dont look down to me? Is it just my jaded eyes LOL or is this really happening. I dont see the hotel and package prices coming down much if any.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Which boggles the mind why they don't run that stuff 24/7 on multiple streams as Disney nostalgia, Walt's closet etc

It may be the company is patterned after studio accounting in that D+ has to pay/transfer/debit to other divisions when they use content created under that whether that is film, TV, animation. A way to hobble your total expansion but maybe the books have to be satisfied.
I really don't know the internal financials but in the old studios everyone had to get a piece of the pie or there was no use of the property.

I also wondered why Disney didn't run the nostalgic movies and shows with D+? We bought D+ when it first came out and expected to see the old nostalgic movies that made Disney what it is. We were very disappointed to see that that was not the case. We didn't reup after that - it was a disappointment.

So, the question is: Why don't they show the nostalgic, much loved movies that they have on D+? I believe their revenue would greatly increase if they did that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ok I keep hearing that attendance is down, but whenever I peruse a Live Stream from the parks they dont look down to me? Is it just my jaded eyes LOL or is this really happening. I dont see the hotel and package prices coming down much if any.

Attendance is severely down

Hotel occupancy is terrible and trending worse

 

[lentesta]

If those estimates are steady then they should be discounting tickets, rooms to get people into the parks

You say they’re good at quants…but they lose easy profits each day they lose foot traffic

This is like Disney:101 easy stuff

I mean, the other side of that is more people would require more labor and maintenance. Not only is it diminishing returns, but it's a slightly more crowded experience for each additional person in the parks. I'm sure they've modeled it.

Relatedly, one reason why the Four Seasons Orlando is > $1,200/night is that they're not chasing 80% occupancy. They're satisfied at a much higher price point, with much lower occupancy, and loyal guests who like the relaxed vibe. I have a friend who's a 4S member, and occasionally I tag along on a lounge-around-the-pool day. It's glorious.

I don't recall what Disney was offering during the 2009 downturn. I'm sure there were hotel discounts. Ticket discounts though?

 

[BrianLo]

Comcast earnings report reflects a pretty decent attendance dip for their parks division - Q2'24 down 11% ($234M) compared to Q2 of last year. Mainly attributed to lower attendance at domestic parks.

I'd imagine Disney is in a similar spot.

I thought I was just assured like two days ago that wasn’t the case. Fanboys gonna fanboy.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Attendance is severely down

Hotel occupancy is terrible and trending worse

not to worry... breaking news - new annual passholder magnet and exclusives coming to AK. The worries are over!

Is the stock going back up now?

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