Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe. But if a family can't afford $2,000 for tickets now, an amazing new park isn't going to give them that extra $2,000. As someone who went to IoA once in college and never the Studios, I will go to see the Nintendo stuff. But it will also not be a 2-3 times a year thing like Disney used to be unless the park ops just blow me out of the water to the point I see a real value (and even still not sure it becomes as much as we were at Disney cause those ticket prices are just so much). I know it's always "They aren't the SAME" but I can buy a season pass at Cedar Point for LESS than a single day at Universal. I will say though, I can see the new park giving them a large boost next year, and it's something I don't think Disney will see much of a benefit from. And I don't think Disney adding rides is going to have a large boost either. Because Comcast adding a new park is doing the one thing we have screamed about with Disney for a decade, it ADDED capacity.

Oh I agree

The #1 problem is that they have exceeded their reasonable price level. Not just that…they have exceeded the level where discounts are effective.

It’s a disastrous mistake in the market.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I’ll remind…no recession

That has never happened before…not close

Not good timing with the new park opening next year and tons of money spent on it. I’m sure they’ll see a boost but not ideal timing for a decrease in those vacating at theme parks now

 

[TheMaxRebo]

So MCO has set records this summer but Uni and WDW is down in crowds.

Beach and cruise folks or is seaworld and fun spot taking over? lol

Definitely think people vacationing domestically are looking at cheaper options - and both Disney and Universal are expensive

And are still some cheaper things to do in Florida and while more expensive than in the past, can generally get flights to FK for less than other places

Wonder if also people flying out of, or through, MCO to international destinations with the dollar being (relatively) strong

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not good timing with the new park opening next year and tons of money spent on it. I’m sure they’ll see a boost but not ideal timing for a decrease in those vacating at theme parks now

Universal will get movement with the new park…it’s unavoidable. Good for them

Disney on the other hand has NOTHING to draw beyond the mean. They’re sitting in their bunker with their heads down hoping enough traffic rubs off from epic to drive their numbers up.

Laughably bad management. Pressler is laughing somewhere

 

[LSLS]

The problem is people are already stretch thin due to inflation etc as income hasn’t kept up with price increases. Disney being the smart ones they are raise prices on everything and then add things like G+ to charge more for what was included once before.

Once you add the resort, ticket, food, souvi, G+ prices that are all overpriced now, the family total for a week is outrageous and maybe say it’s not worth it and go elsewhere

Sure, but Universal tickets cost MORE, I believe last I checked food costs MORE, and their fast pass system (while FAR superior) costs a LOT MORE. Now, to your point, the value has gone down INSANELY at Disney with what they have taken away (I'm still shocked at not having a thermostat that can get really cool, a fridge that can hold food or drinks, and no microwave personally) along with those increases, but I think Universal is showing that pricing beyond just value may be the largest issue going on around that area. Still waiting on these AECOM reports for 2023, I have a feeling Disney and Universal saw HUGE hits last year.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sure, but Universal tickets cost MORE, I believe last I checked food costs MORE, and their fast pass system (while FAR superior) costs a LOT MORE. Now, to your point, the value has gone down INSANELY at Disney with what they have taken away (I'm still shocked at not having a thermostat that can get really cool, a fridge that can hold food or drinks, and no microwave personally) along with those increases, but I think Universal is showing that pricing beyond just value may be the largest issue going on around that area. Still waiting on these AECOM reports for 2023, I have a feeling Disney and Universal saw HUGE hits last year.

Somehow…it always ends up being more in LBV…the cost difference end up being negligible even with express pass

 

[GhostHost1000]

Universal will get movement with the new park…it’s unavoidable. Good for them

Disney on the other hand has NOTHING to draw beyond the mean. They’re sitting in their bunker with their heads down hoping enough traffic rubs off from epic to drive their numbers up.

Laughably bad management. Pressler is laughing somewhere

I'm they'll announce some big things at D23 and show some concept art of things that'll never turn out looking like that and all that jazz, but think about the next couple of years. Scary. Sure they may add some entertainment (night parade, etc) or do another attraction overlay here and there to do something more quickly... but expansion is so behind is bad.

poor management decisions in so many places are going to bite them, and we are already seeing signs of that

 

[Andrew25]

Very possible. The prices for UNI/DIS are out of control. Maybe the fabled breaking point related to costs has been hit?

It's been very evident that Orlando as a destination has hit a price ceiling 2 years ago. I love the parks, but I can't convince myself to spend $150+ for a 1-day ticket, let alone for a family of 4.

Earnings down 24%.

Uni expecting continued softness until Epic opens. And the last I heard for that is June-ish 2025.

Some of that is post-Nintento opening comps but still.

Yep - mainly referred to just plain revenue as UOR has been doing some pretty significant cost cutting as of a year ago now, so it's difficult to compare earnings.

Q3 for Universal should see improvement with HHN boosting sales.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm they'll announce some big things at D23 and show some concept art of things that'll never turn out looking like that and all that jazz, but think about the next couple of years. Scary. Sure they made add some entertainment (night parade, etc) or do another attraction overlay here and there to do something more quickly... but expansion is so behind is bad.

poor management decisions in so many places are going to bite them, and we are already seeing signs of that

Not to do the Walt thing…

But he was right when he declared the parks would never be completed

That was what had torpedoed parks prior to Disneyland…lack of quality and stagnation.

Idiot Bob decided that “enough” was such smart business. Which has devolved over time into far less than enough.

All he did was use up the lead he was given. Now the reality can’t be hidden.

 

[peng]

Earnings down 24%.

Uni expecting continued softness until Epic opens. And the last I heard for that is June-ish 2025.

Some of that is post-Nintento opening comps but still.

Something something a falling tide lowers all boats.

 

[Tha Realest]

There's a reason why we got Surprise Ship #1 and Surprise Ship #2.

I also feel like cruise ships (much like DVC) have an immediate, measurable, and much more quantifiable ROI as opposed to, say, another attraction within an existing theme park that has numerous other competing attractions.

Especially when you consider that some of the recent investments - specifically, SWGE(WDW and DL), Galactic Starcruiser, and currently, Tiana, haven’t exactly juiced attendance in ways that justify their buildouts.

 

[lentesta]

I'm they'll announce some big things at D23 and show some concept art of things that'll never turn out looking like that and all that jazz, but think about the next couple of years. Scary. Sure they made add some entertainment (night parade, etc) or do another attraction overlay here and there to do something more quickly... but expansion is so behind is bad.

If this is not a primary focus on the next earnings call, I will be astonished.

 

[Tha Realest]

Earnings down 24%.

Uni expecting continued softness until Epic opens. And the last I heard for that is June-ish 2025.

Some of that is post-Nintento opening comps but still.

It seems like the markets have noticed that this portends a dreadful quarter for Disney:

Incidentally, they have now dropped below the dreaded Chapek Line* once again.

*The Chapek Line was the stock’s closing price ($91.80) in November ‘22 when the BOD decided they had enough and fired him.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I also feel like cruise ships (much like DVC) have an immediate, measurable, and much more quantifiable ROI as opposed to, say, another attraction within an existing theme park that has numerous other competing attractions.

Especially when you consider that some of the recent investments - specifically, SWGE(WDW and DL), Galactic Starcruiser, and currently, Tiana, haven’t exactly juiced attendance in ways that justify their buildouts.

There’s no doubt it’s a much higher ROI in the short term on ships

Park growth takes strategy…patience…and sometimes losses.

That’s where the big boys and girls are needed…why they’ve started to fail.

 

[GhostHost1000]

It seems like the markets have noticed that this portends a dreadful quarter for Disney:

View attachment 802976

Incidentally, they have now dropped below the dreaded Chapek Line* once again.

*The Chapek Line was the stock’s closing price ($91.80) in November ‘22 when the BOD decided they had enough and fired him.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If this is not a primary focus on the next earnings call, I will be astonished.

You know they’re gonna try every which way to try to lie their way around it.

 

[Saskdw]

Sure, but Universal tickets cost MORE, I believe last I checked food costs MORE, and their fast pass system (while FAR superior) costs a LOT MORE. Now, to your point, the value has gone down INSANELY at Disney with what they have taken away (I'm still shocked at not having a thermostat that can get really cool, a fridge that can hold food or drinks, and no microwave personally) along with those increases, but I think Universal is showing that pricing beyond just value may be the largest issue going on around that area. Still waiting on these AECOM reports for 2023, I have a feeling Disney and Universal saw HUGE hits last year.

Universal does 100% run the risk of being too arrogant with their pricing. Their is a fine line to walk for them to not only cash in on the initial excitement of Epic and also build a loyal fanbase that actually cuts into Disney long term.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Universal does 100% run the risk of being too arrogant with their pricing. Their is a fine line to walk for them to not only cash in on the initial excitement of Epic and also build a loyal fanbase that actually cuts into Disney long term.

I think the reason we don’t have any pricing/packages yet for the opening is because they are looking at these bad numbers and trends now.

Maybe they’ll be smart about it?

Unlike down the road…where they went ahead and started trying to sell trailers to dvc that no one on earth ever wanted

 

[GhostHost1000]

I think the reason we don’t have any pricing/packages yet for the opening is because they are looking at these bad numbers and trends now.

Maybe they’ll be smart about it?

Unlike down the road…where they went ahead and started trying to sell trailers to dvc that no one on earth ever wanted

I’m just waiting until they start trying to shove more DVC into moderate resorts or if really bad dare I say value resort properties in some way (family suites) just to ensure people are in the parks and spending money. Nothing would surprise me

 

[Tha Realest]

I’m just waiting until they start trying to shove more DVC into moderate resorts or if really bad dare I say value resort properties in some way (family suites) just to ensure people are in the parks and spending money. Nothing would surprise me

Disney’s All-Star Villas