Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[TheIceBaron]

My thing with the prices is if you intend on charging us so much at least reinvest SOMETHING into the parks. Clearly the parks are doing financially well, but having them subsidize terrible theatrical and streaming projects is maddening.

I know they announced vague plans for modest projects in the far future but I feel like guests will start going elsewhere (eventually) if there is nothing new to experience. There were a few decent sized additions in 2023 but the slate is nearly empty for the next 5 years. I’d love to know if they seriously expect guest spending to maintain its current level with nearly no new additions to the parks.

 

[plutofan15]

Can a person accurately remember details 3 years back?

In frequenters have their uses…but not details

I just had a surprisingly good meal at Steakhouse 71…fyi

I can recall details from every trip I have taken going back 20+ years. So the answer is yes. Hard for you to believe I am sure.

 

[Lilofan]

I can recall details from every trip I have taken going back 20+ years. So the answer is yes. Hard for you to believe I am sure.

You must have eaten a lot of fish in your lifetime. When I was a little one my mother kept telling me to eat more fish because it is brain food.

 

[Splash4eva]

The sad thing is they probably could have raised prices another 50% and we’d have still felt we were getting our moneys worth, instead they started charging for all the free things that addd value and now it just feels like we’re being nickel and dimed constantly.

Disney went from being the all inclusive airline that was more expensive but offered a good service and now feels like a budget airline, you can get everything the better airlines include but you’re going to pay for them all separately, and it’ll probably cost more in the long run for something that feels inferior.

Yep exactly been saying the same thing… if they wanted to charge for FP simply bake it into ticket prices/hotel rooms/souvenirs etc. Same with parking fees at the time. Its like when you order something. One would rather pay $30 & free shipping than $25 with $5 shipping. Mental gymnastics. The company lost its way with their guests which is insane considering the data they have on us.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Yep exactly been saying the same thing… if they wanted to charge for FP simply bake it into ticket prices/hotel rooms/souvenirs etc. Same with parking fees at the time. It’s like when you order something. One would rather pay $30 & free shipping than $25 with $5 shipping. Mental gymnastics. The company lost its way with their guests which is insane considering the data they have on us.

Completely agree. Someone somewhere however made a nice bonus coming up with the G+ and ILL idea$.

It’s no longer about the guest experience, it’s about how can they make more money off us that keep going and keep throwing money at them regardless of cost no matter what they do or don’t do.

There’s no other place like WDW I know, but we are also our own worst enemies when it comes to this and Disney knows it. They know whatever they do (for now anyways) they can still find a way to make record profits if they keep finding ways to give/spend less and charge more

 

[Splash4eva]

Completely agree. Someone somewhere however made a nice bonus coming up with the G+ and ILL idea$.

It’s no longer about the guest experience, it’s about how can they make more money off us that keep going and keep throwing money at them regardless of cost no matter what they do or don’t do.

There’s no other place like WDW I know, but we are also our own worst enemies when it comes to this and Disney knows it. They know whatever they do (for now anyways) they can still find a way to make record profits if they keep finding ways to give/spend less and charge more

Its slowly changing tho .. they will keep bleeding as much as they can from the people who are there buy getting the cost per person trip as high as possible but at some point that model fails as well. Sad part is if they built and spent wisely they would add a ton of capacity to these parks and people will come in packs and spend even more money. Im sorry call me a guilty one but im paying for a skip the line system no matter what and im pretty confident i am not the only one. New E Ticket rides they will continue to charge people to ride them w/o having to wait. So their logic is beyond flawed

 

[Lirael]

I know a few people that have been going and buying G+ and LL, but these folks a) aren't frequent visitors (in fact, they're usually first timers) and b) don't go many days to the parks, so to they see the importance in guaranteeing the rides. And while they come out glad they bought it, they also say how expensive going is, and won't be back anytime soon.

So while disney might have succeeded in ripping money out of these people with G+ LL etc, they've also made them think they shouldnt return anytime soon, since it's such a high cost

 

[drizgirl]

I know a few people that have been going and buying G+ and LL, but these folks a) aren't frequent visitors (in fact, they're usually first timers) and b) don't go many days to the parks, so to they see the importance in guaranteeing the rides. And while they come out glad they bought it, they also say how expensive going is, and won't be back anytime soon.

So while disney might have succeeded in ripping money out of these people with G+ LL etc, they've also made them think they shouldnt return anytime soon, since it's such a high cost

Totally agree. This is how I was with Universal and Express Pass. Loved going, but once paid EP started, I wouldn't go without it. Kept me away for 15 years.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I know a few people that have been going and buying G+ and LL, but these folks a) aren't frequent visitors (in fact, they're usually first timers) and b) don't go many days to the parks, so to they see the importance in guaranteeing the rides. And while they come out glad they bought it, they also say how expensive going is, and won't be back anytime soon.

So while disney might have succeeded in ripping money out of these people with G+ LL etc, they've also made them think they shouldnt return anytime soon, since it's such a high cost

I know on a recent Disney Dish they were going through a survey someone got and it got into if they bought Genie+ and if they did, did the $ for it take away from spending elsewhere or was it additional $ spent

We are fairly frequent visitors (about once a year) but go for shorter trips - past trip was 4 park days, one before was 3 park days, etc ... so we did get Genie+ for a few of the days, but it definitely comes out of the same total budget so we did lestt TS restaurants and didn't get hoppers (as examples)

Definitely depends on what you want to accomplish but especially as we have moved away from rope dropping and wanting to relax/sleep in more on vacation (and tougher to get the kids up as they get older) we are willing to buy it but if we were doing longer trips or were more able/willing to rope drop probably wouldn't

 

[JoeCamel]

I know a few people that have been going and buying G+ and LL, but these folks a) aren't frequent visitors (in fact, they're usually first timers) and b) don't go many days to the parks, so to they see the importance in guaranteeing the rides. And while they come out glad they bought it, they also say how expensive going is, and won't be back anytime soon.

So while disney might have succeeded in ripping money out of these people with G+ LL etc, they've also made them think they shouldnt return anytime soon, since it's such a high cost

That is the model now so they can keep the same capacity while increasing per room spending. The one and done from Denver is the demo they want and they believe the pool is unlimited.......

 

[plutofan15]

You must have eaten a lot of fish in your lifetime. When I was a little one my mother kept telling me to eat more fish because it is brain food.

Nah, average amount I would assume. I do not recall every detail but certainly quite a bit about each trip. The claim which was made questioning that people accurately remember details 3 years back is another foolish statement.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don’t think you actually believe that customer satisfaction doesn’t matter. If Disney is, in fact, “starting g to see a defection of audience,” you don’t think they’d care to ask why?

People will pay as much as you can charge if they feel like they’re getting their money’s worth.

You love to condescend to the “die hard fans” as though you weren’t one, but you’re at WDW this week despite constantly complaining about Disney, the parks, the crowds, and Iger’s cash grabs.

IMO they do question why. I think they just don't know how to fix it. It all goes back to Iger and Burbank don't understand theme parks and have no clue why people do.

 

[Jrb1979]

Nah, average amount I would assume. I do not recall every detail but certainly quite a bit about each trip. The claim which was made questioning that people accurately remember details 3 years back is another foolish statement.

Here is where the disconnect is by those who love the parks and those who see the problems coming. Those who love the parks will overlook things like no Magical Express, Genie+ as the experience in the park hasn't changed a lot since they were knee high to a grasshopper.

Things like Magical Express gone and the cost of LLs and Genie+ is hard to look past when the price has gone up so much. Especially for me, now that my kid is 4, it costs that much more for me to go. As family it's hard to justify that price let alone the cost of tickets.

 

[DKampy]

I'm sure it's nice for what it is. But it shouldn't have taken multiple years to complete, even in a pandemic. And it should be filler, not a destination attraction.

Who is calling it a destination attraction… I have not heard this

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Got it - you are a self proclaimed expert who is above reproach because you "dumped so much into the operation"; whatever that means. And your so called "honesty" is simply your opinion. Which you are certainly entitled to but that does not make it fact. Just as my opinion is not fact, it is simply how I see it. I don't know if you have any more skin in the game other than a frequent visitor but rest assured that there are others that more than likely have deeper insight and knowledge into the operation of the company than you do. As hard as it might be to believe. There are things that Disney needs to improve on but there are also quite a few things that they do very well.

You threw me off with “got it”…then proceeded to waste 3 minutes you’ll never get back demonstrating the oppo…

Well played though…you had me for a second.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Being called out on hypocrisy makes some defensive.

Though my post being called a "diatribe" by the King of Diatribes was an awesome way to end 2023.

If hypocrisy means not really wavering…at all…and commenting as honestly as I can…

Guilty as charged

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Who is calling it a destination attraction… I have not heard this

It’s not a destination attraction…but no one claimed that and can still be taken seriously

What it really is…is more in tune with landscaping/streetsmosphere

And that’s ok. But it’s nothing beyond that

There was a line for the Moana meet and greet on 12/31

There was no line to walk through the rocks…it was sparse.

It will be more useful in the heat…for sure

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Since I’m playing the part of the piñata here…group response:

I truly think Disney hopes to get some sloppy seconds from Uni’s success when the new park opens and it be the perfect kind for them. Someone buying a 1-2 day ticket paying the highest prices out there and spending money frivolously because of the short quick stay…

I agree…and how cheap does that look. Both bobs. Bad management

Who knows as Universal hasnt made public any pricing plans for Epic Universe.

But that’s a pretty easy conclusion to come too…it’s almost obvious

If that is true, it would be a complete 180 from what it used to be between Disney and Universal.

…bless you…you noticed

My thing with the prices is if you intend on charging us so much at least reinvest SOMETHING into the parks. Clearly the parks are doing financially well, but having them subsidize terrible theatrical and streaming projects is maddening.

I know they announced vague plans for modest projects in the far future but I feel like guests will start going elsewhere (eventually) if there is nothing new to experience. There were a few decent sized additions in 2023 but the slate is nearly empty for the next 5 years. I’d love to know if they seriously expect guest spending to maintain its current level with nearly no new additions to the parks.

That’s on the consumers…all of us…paying more and more and more in the “roaring 2010s” when they spent 5 years mothballing stuff and 9 years building things that only kept the capacity afloat and allowed no expansion.

Bob is like a dog owner…if you are happy eating the same thing every day and keep coming back…he will feed you the same…and probably get a cheaper brand to boot.

I can recall details from every trip I have taken going back 20+ years. So the answer is yes. Hard for you to believe I am sure.

You can recall the details of like 40-60 trips?!?

Damn…I might only be able to remember like 80%? When I take my vitamins.

That is the model now so they can keep the same capacity while increasing per room spending. The one and done from Denver is the demo they want and they believe the pool is unlimited.......

Yes. They talk about it at sun valley

So a 3-5% dip in attendance at wdw for the year with not only no recession…but two quarters with even more drunken spending in the American economy to feed the hungry debt dog is TOTALLY in line with that strategy succeeding, eh?

 

[lentesta]

There's some talk of Christmas 2023 wait times being higher than 2019.

For what it's worth, we (TouringPlans) think actual wait times were definitely lower than 2019, based on the actual wait times we got from our users.

Posted wait times for 2023 averaged about 43.5 mins, a tiny bit higher than 2019.

However, the 95% confidence intervals for actual wait times in 2023 and 2019 don't overlap. So we're pretty sure they're different.

ETA: The "Average Peak Hours A/P" is the average actual time divided by the average posted time.

If the average actual wait was higher than the average posted, that number would be > 100%. So if the posted was 30 and you waited 45, that's 150%.

If the posted wait was always exactly the actual wait, that number would be 100%. Posted was 30 and you really waited 30.

If the posted wait is an over-estimate of the actual wait, that number would be < 100%. Posted wait of 30, you waited 20? That's 60%.

The "Avg Peak Hours Calc Acutal" is an estimate of how long we think all actual waits were, given the sample of actual waits and the complete set of posted waits we got. (That is, we have enough posted waits to say that it's all of them.)

 

[Nubs70]

There's some talk of Christmas 2023 wait times being higher than 2019.

For what it's worth, we (TouringPlans) think actual wait times were definitely lower than 2019, based on the actual wait times we got from our users.

Posted wait times for 2023 averaged about 43.5 mins, a tiny bit higher than 2019.

However, the 95% confidence intervals for actual wait times in 2023 and 2019 don't overlap. So we're pretty sure they're different.

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Deming says, "You are Correct"