Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[PREMiERdrum]

But will they do either? I’m skeptical.

They've staved off about as long as I think they can.

Their hand is currently being forced by the market.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I'll reconsider visiting soon with some discounted AP's and free G+

 

[Tha Realest]

They've staved off about as long as I think they can.

Their hand is currently being forced by the market.

Have they ever lowered the ticket prices? It seems like the move is to just offer discounts or promotions off of existing prices/rack rates.

I also feel the flurry of promotions and limited availability with some of them create a confusing and frustrating impediment to people booking these trips.

 

[ChrisM]

I'm curious if some of these deals may cannibalize holiday '23 bookings?

I haven't done any deal comparisons for what's available Nov-Dec '23 and what's been popping up for '24, but would be interested to see if there is a spike in rebookings.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Product offerings - even a rushed move of MSEP or similar - couldn't take effect quickly enough to make the impact they are desperately searching for.

In this short-term crisis, all they can do is adjust the pricing and guest experience relative to the current offerings.

It looks like the cracks in the Igerian park “management” theory become more and more apparent each day. I could give 20 examples…but it’s lunch time

But will they do either? I’m skeptical.

It’s just my opinion…they’re in panic mode

 

[Andrew25]

Product offerings - even a rushed move of MSEP or similar - couldn't take effect quickly enough to make the impact they are desperately searching for.

In this short-term crisis, all they can do is adjust the pricing and guest experience relative to the current offerings.

In the short-term, they can rely on APs to fill the park.

Have they ever lowered the ticket prices? It seems like the move is to just offer discounts or promotions off of existing prices/rack rates.

I also feel the flurry of promotions and limited availability with some of them create a confusing and frustrating impediment to people booking these trips.

Lowering prices is a big no-no in the business world. I'm sure they'll go heavy on discounts though.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a similar 20% off merchandise sale like they did back in June, effectively a 40% discount for APs.

 

[aprilibeth]

I also fully believe we will be looking at re-tooled AP's next year. They won't necessarily lower the price. They will rework them or change the program all together to offer some expensive zero blackout, higher discount in park etc passes and a range of lower priced passes with various blackout dates or different discount levels. They need a constant flow of bodies in parks and the discounts they are using now aren't doing it if they are discounting halfway into next year.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'll reconsider visiting soon with some discounted AP's and free G+

It’s just you, me, and pirate that think that way…

…according to the 8 people here that still defend Bob


But what if?…Hypothetically…it’s 10s if not hundreds of THOUSANDS of dvc members, Florida residents, and 80s and 90s baked in park fans that think the same way?

What are the numbers telling them?

 

[GhostHost1000]

It’s just you, me, and pirate that think that way…

…according to the 8 people here that still defend Bob


But what if?…Hypothetically…it’s 10s if not hundreds of THOUSANDS of dvc members, Florida residents, and 80s and 90s baked in park fans that think the same way?

What are the numbers telling them?

I was lead to believe Bob was coming back to fix everything

now I'm wondering if that was just a lie lol

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I also fully believe we will be looking at re-tooled AP's next year. They won't necessarily lower the price. They will rework them or change the program all together to offer some expensive zero blackout, higher discount in park etc passes and a range of lower priced passes with various blackout dates or different discount levels. They need a constant flow of bodies in parks and the discounts they are using now aren't doing it if they are discounting halfway into next year.

That’s already what they have and they’re super overpriced.

If we want to discuss when, how and why? They messed up APs…we can do that

But it’s a tangent.

Here’s what they did today: ripped off Royal Caribbean’s “slow time” promo…which they aren’t doing because they are booming…that covers the 2 busiest consecutive months a year (traditionally…March and April)

That’s what we got

But trying to outsmart you…Because business has trended “older” for about 20 years…we talk about it all the time…and the 3-9 block is a small percentage of the whole. But they’re also trying to get them to buy crap…which is a direct indication of how bad the profit fall is.

Bob shoulda stayed on the yacht…sailing backwards with the kiwis

 

[jpeden]

It’s just you, me, and pirate that think that way…

…according to the 8 people here that still defend Bob


But what if?…Hypothetically…it’s 10s if not hundreds of THOUSANDS of dvc members, Florida residents, and 80s and 90s baked in park fans that think the same way?

What are the numbers telling them?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was lead to believe Bob was coming back to fix everything

now I'm wondering if that was just a lie lol

Decades ago…a failed politician/public menace called the New York daily news acting like he was someone else to “refute” claims they made in article…I think the pressure point was his libido? Or something?

…I’m just saying about Bob…

…wait…what was I saying Again?

 

[Weather_Lady]

Can confirm hints of a decline for Wegmans are evident in their recently opened smaller format store in NW Washington, DC. Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty good overall, and my wife and I prefer it to the Safeways, Giants, and Whole Foods locations in the area, but we agree service and cleanliness levels feel like a step below other Wegmans we've been to.

Sorry to throw myself down the rabbit hole on this tangential topic, but... I grew up in the heart of Wegmans country, minutes from Danny Wegman's home on Canandaigua Lake (which I hear has a heated driveway so he never has to shovel snow), and close to all the Wegmans stores that started it all. Outside of my college years, I've never lived more than 10 minutes from a Wegmans, and I'm not sure I'd ever want to. Shopping there is not simply an errand: it's an event.

That said, I can testify that over the past decade or so, the scale of the stores, and of their inventory, has visibly diminished. Whether this is due to corporate timidity in the face of competition from big box stores, elimination of services and products that just weren't turning enough of a profit, or a change in corporate philosophy that says, "6 brands of spaghetti sauce are enough: we don't need 20"), I'm not sure, but it's something that locals have noticed, and vocally complained about. (I'm so old, I still remember the days when various local Wegmans stores not only offered an unparalleled selection of groceries, but onsite florists, video rental counters, film developing and photo printing, dry-cleaning, and shopping incentives that included pop-up in-store cooking demonstrations and contests (at age 12, I earned a full take-home dinner for my family, as the victor of an unannounced corn-husking contest we stumbled upon in the produce section), and lavish sweepstakes (my friend's mother was a $10,000 winner in a random giveaway in the early 90s! She got invited to appear in a local Wegmans commercial touting her winnings, which the family used to buy a plushy brand new conversion van with a raised roof, that probably got about 10 miles to the gallon).

Wegmans is still the best place to find fresh local produce, made-in-house baked goods, international items, grab-and-go buffet items (and in some locations, cafeteria-style dining), and high-quality pharmacy services, and the Wegmans stores around here are just as clean and up-to-date as they've always been. However, for everything else -- the grocery "staples," if you will -- we're all increasingly turning to Aldi and even Walmart, because they're significantly less expensive.

 

[JD80]

I did some math - I picked a random week in April to price things out.

Family of 5, 2 adults 3 kids, 6 nights, 4 park tickets. CBR was $330 a night.

Room Discount:
If you can find a 30% discount for CBR you save about $600 for the week.
Total Trip cost is about $4525 (Room + 4 day ticket)

New Discount Package:
Rack Rate: $1980
Discounted Tickets: $2074
Discounted DDP: $1400
Total: $5454

Essentially it comes down to, would you spend $900 for the DDP for 6 nights for a family of 5? The answer is yes you would because that's $30 per per per day.

This is basically free dining.

Back in the day, same scenario the DDP would cost you $240 a day and to get that free you would pay rack rate vs room discount ($450 savings for the week?) plus the hopper tax maybe $20 per ticket (4 x 5 x $20). That's $1440 of dining for "free" for the opportunity cost of $850.

Comes out to almost exactly the same - so free dining is back under a new name. What is interesting is that they are offering TICKET DISCOUNTS. This is huge since this is a major cost driver now for any vacation. Tickets have been over valued for years now. I wonder if they start moving to Ticket Discounts vs. Hotel Discounts more often.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I did some math - I picked a random week in April to price things out.

Family of 5, 2 adults 3 kids, 6 nights, 4 park tickets. CBR was $330 a night.

Room Discount:
If you can find a 30% discount for CBR you save about $600 for the week.
Total Trip cost is about $4525 (Room + 4 day ticket)

New Discount Package:
Rack Rate: $1980
Discounted Tickets: $2074
Discounted DDP: $1400
Total: $5454

Essentially it comes down to, would you spend $900 for the DDP for 6 nights for a family of 5? The answer is yes you would because that's $30 per per per day.

This is basically free dining.

Back in the day, same scenario the DDP would cost you $240 a day and to get that free you would pay rack rate vs room discount ($450 savings for the week?) plus the hopper tax maybe $20 per ticket (4 x 5 x $20). That's $1440 of dining for "free" for the opportunity cost of $850.

Comes out to almost exactly the same - so free dining is back under a new name. What is interesting is that they are offering TICKET DISCOUNTS. This is huge since this is a major cost driver now for any vacation. Tickets have been over valued for years now. I wonder if they start moving to Ticket Discounts vs. Hotel Discounts more often.

This discount only applies if you have kids 3-9 however

 

[JD80]

This discount only applies if you have kids 3-9 however

Sure.

 

[HauntedPirate]

What’s the biggest lever?

Just my $.05 on this (it used to be $.02 but inflation recently has been ridiculous, as you know), in no particular order of importance/severity:

- Discounted APs for DVC
- Free dining
- Buy-X-days-get-Y-days free tickets

All wrapped up in Bob's "MAGICAL!!!" PR bow. (Aka. putting a Mickey ears on a pile of bovine excrement.)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sorry to throw myself down the rabbit hole on this tangential topic, but... I grew up in the heart of Wegmans country, minutes from Danny Wegman's home on Canandaigua Lake (which I hear has a heated driveway so he never has to shovel snow), and close to all the Wegmans stores that started it all. Outside of my college years, I've never lived more than 10 minutes from a Wegmans, and I'm not sure I'd ever want to. Shopping there is not simply an errand: it's an event.

That said, I can testify that over the past decade or so, the scale of the stores, and of their inventory, has visibly diminished. Whether this is due to corporate timidity in the face of competition from big box stores, elimination of services and products that just weren't turning enough of a profit, or a change in corporate philosophy that says, "6 brands of spaghetti sauce are enough: we don't need 20"), I'm not sure, but it's something that locals have noticed, and vocally complained about. (I'm so old, I still remember the days when various local Wegmans stores not only offered an unparalleled selection of groceries, but onsite florists, video rental counters, film developing and photo printing, dry-cleaning, and shopping incentives that included pop-up in-store cooking demonstrations and contests (at age 12, I earned a full take-home dinner for my family, as the victor of an unannounced corn-husking contest we stumbled upon in the produce section), and lavish sweepstakes (my friend's mother was a $10,000 winner in a random giveaway in the early 90s! She got invited to appear in a local Wegmans commercial touting her winnings, which the family used to buy a plushy brand new conversion van with a raised roof, that probably got about 10 miles to the gallon).

Wegmans is still the best place to find fresh local produce, made-in-house baked goods, international items, grab-and-go buffet items (and in some locations, cafeteria-style dining), and high-quality pharmacy services, and the Wegmans stores around here are just as clean and up-to-date as they've always been. However, for everything else -- the grocery "staples," if you will -- we're all increasingly turning to Aldi and even Walmart, because they're significantly less expensive.

…Rochester is lovely

I’m a loyal wegmans shopper…but they have really cheapened their store and charged astronomical prices out of Covid.

It looks very budget and that’s not their lane.

Reminds me of wdw merch shops in many ways

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I did some math - I picked a random week in April to price things out.

Family of 5, 2 adults 3 kids, 6 nights, 4 park tickets. CBR was $330 a night.

Room Discount:
If you can find a 30% discount for CBR you save about $600 for the week.
Total Trip cost is about $4525 (Room + 4 day ticket)

New Discount Package:
Rack Rate: $1980
Discounted Tickets: $2074
Discounted DDP: $1400
Total: $5454

Essentially it comes down to, would you spend $900 for the DDP for 6 nights for a family of 5? The answer is yes you would because that's $30 per per per day.

This is basically free dining.

Back in the day, same scenario the DDP would cost you $240 a day and to get that free you would pay rack rate vs room discount ($450 savings for the week?) plus the hopper tax maybe $20 per ticket (4 x 5 x $20). That's $1440 of dining for "free" for the opportunity cost of $850.

Comes out to almost exactly the same - so free dining is back under a new name. What is interesting is that they are offering TICKET DISCOUNTS. This is huge since this is a major cost driver now for any vacation. Tickets have been over valued for years now. I wonder if they start moving to Ticket Discounts vs. Hotel Discounts more often.

Double the price of 5 years ago isn’t “free anything”

Hate to pop your balloon there

 

[GhostHost1000]

Double the price of 5 years ago isn’t “free anything”

Hate to pop your balloon there

At least we get “free” AP magnets right?