Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Is attendance really down at WDW this or…
- Thread starter coachb
- Start date
I'm not concerned too much on Disney. Verification is key not putting all your eggs in one basket ( individual stock investing ). Let the bulls keep running to quiet the ones convinced on a recession.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
MyBe I missed it in the thread - I've been popping in and out as I can. But my understanding is that the data has been about bookings being down - not bookings being booked and then cancelled, just that overall bookings have been down.
I can see people going to wdw last summer, maybe as a first time trip or revenge trip from covid and then going - uh, yeah, no, not traveling there in summer again and simply not booking. We went to wdw on our honeymoon in July, 15+ years ago, and have never gone back in the summer since. It was miserable enough then to turn us off to summer completely.
I do also think it's a multi pronged issue - price is playing a part also for sure. It also doesn't appear to be limited to wdw. I read an article from Delaware recently talking about how Delaware beach hotel bookings are down from last year as well. We were also able to book an oceanfront house at OBX much later in the season than we ever have (and had it been nearly impossible even months out last year).
Seems questionable.
Universal deluxe resorts come with a lot more value add.
Disney is taking a risk if this is even half true.
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
Especially if the Universal hotels stay at a cheaper price point than the Disney ones
Especially as a family of 5 those family suites at Endless Summer start looking like a nice option for us to spend the week and then Uber over to Disney for a Day or two if we want
(Or maybe an evening or 2 as might just do after hours events vs day tickets)
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
And Royal Caribbean will be putting their newest ship Utopia of the Seas out of Port Canaveral doing 3 and 4 day trips at I suspect much better pricing than DCL
Just about everyone has cheaper pricing than DCL, and have had them cheaper for years.
Barring a pandemic, DCL is always practically fully booked anyway.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
I still don't think the hyperbole is accurate.
EU benefits the entire ecosystem, or at least it should. Does Disney really need to counter with anything big, especially when they have consistently added new attractions / lands over the last several years (yes Covid caused delays, yes Disney caused other delays, yes things got cut), for EU's opening? I don't really know. Is it sustainable to expect BIG new additions every year at a theme park?
If WDW can get their operations working better, remove some of the difficulty they've added, and pump up some new entertainment for that year, I think they'll be fine. Use the first new big theme park in Orlando in... decades as a boost. Follow up the hopeful tourist momentum with new things at Disney World 2026 and onward.
The real hope should be that EU pulls in MORE people to Orlando, as if it does not, that is when you will see cannibalization, and then we need to figure out what parks will see drops. I figure it will be Animal Kingdom, and USF that see big drops in that scenario.
But EU in particular still seems to be heavily geared towards older kids, teens, young adults and up, so I am not sure how much crossover there really is.
EU benefits the entire ecosystem, or at least it should. Does Disney really need to counter with anything big, especially when they have consistently added new attractions / lands over the last several years (yes Covid caused delays, yes Disney caused other delays, yes things got cut), for EU's opening? I don't really know. Is it sustainable to expect BIG new additions every year at a theme park?
If WDW can get their operations working better, remove some of the difficulty they've added, and pump up some new entertainment for that year, I think they'll be fine. Use the first new big theme park in Orlando in... decades as a boost. Follow up the hopeful tourist momentum with new things at Disney World 2026 and onward.
The real hope should be that EU pulls in MORE people to Orlando, as if it does not, that is when you will see cannibalization, and then we need to figure out what parks will see drops. I figure it will be Animal Kingdom, and USF that see big drops in that scenario.
But EU in particular still seems to be heavily geared towards older kids, teens, young adults and up, so I am not sure how much crossover there really is.
flynnibus
Premium Member
The issue is as Universal becomes big enough to be it's own hub of activities for extended stays... you will see a reduction in hotel bookings at Disney, and eventually a reduction of DAYS at Disney.
When something is a 1 or 2 day detour... people don't want to switch hotels, etc. They'll just visit for the day and come back to home base. They stay where the bulk of the vacation is... traditionally Disney (for the audience at risk here...).
But when Universal becomes a 3 day... or 4 day.. trip. Do you keep paying Disney prices to stay at Disney and commute to Uni? Or do you switch hotels? Most will switch hotels - causing Disney to lose critical high margin revenue.
Additionally, as the # of days someone looks to visit Universal increases... eventually it becomes a point of trading days you had previously spent at Disney because most people don't have days to keep adding to their vacation. If they are spending 7 days on a vacation... and Universal is looking more attractive, most can't just extend their vacation to 12 days... they have a decide how they will spend those 7 days... and Disney is only going to lose days in that discussion from where they are now.
This is why UNI has been different the last decade from the years before... no longer willing to just be the 'alternate destination' and stealing some days from a Disney vacation... they have set a path to be THE destination you stay at and spend more days at.
Yes there will always be some benefit of 'two resorts increasing the draw'... but it can't always be additive and UNI's growth will come at Disney's expense. People simply don't have unlimited days or $s.
UNI gets big enough you could see the reality of "We alternate.. going to UNI one trip, Disney every other.." or the like.
It doesn't help when UNI has a whole slate of new stuff and Disney will be "same as it was last time..." -- They're going to get a big hit, even if temporary, if EU opens to good fanfare.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
The last time I went to WDW I did a split stay at Universal for the first time.
The addition of an amazing water park combined with good value to stay on site made it an easy decision. Epic Universe will certainly push more people in that direction.
I can't imagine going to Orlando and not doing WDW. Disney will always be king, even if attendance dips a bit.
As I said before, WDW is far busier than it was 5, 10, or 15 years ago. A dip in attendance from 2022 is not the end of the world, is it?
A few more of us will do split stays or cut back on WDW a bit, but I just don't see major concern that one of the most popular vacation destinations in the world has relatively minor downswings.
The addition of an amazing water park combined with good value to stay on site made it an easy decision. Epic Universe will certainly push more people in that direction.
I can't imagine going to Orlando and not doing WDW. Disney will always be king, even if attendance dips a bit.
As I said before, WDW is far busier than it was 5, 10, or 15 years ago. A dip in attendance from 2022 is not the end of the world, is it?
A few more of us will do split stays or cut back on WDW a bit, but I just don't see major concern that one of the most popular vacation destinations in the world has relatively minor downswings.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Because the public trading company who is pushing themselves and the market as a growth one can't keep facing downswings. Disney won't just saw 'aww shucks, we'll live with this new level of visitors' -- They will keep making changes to either 1) try to draw those crowds back or 2) Reduce expenses so the reduced revenue won't lead to reduced margins.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
And Disney will have new stuff coming after EU opens.
So I guess my question is, what should Disney do, and what is realistic?
Is the only answer a new park (which I don't think Disney needs as much as they need to flesh out the current parks), or are new rides/lands, new entertainment (parade, night shows), and potentially working on cost / ease of vacation enough to keep them competitive with Universal?
People are already going to come out for EU in 2025 regardless, does Disney use the next few years to start on their next expansions, assuming 2026+ is when they plan to open some of these "big plans" they've alluded to?
And if that is their eventual plan, does EU really matter in the big picture to Disney? Especially with the different audiences the complexes draw.
lentesta
Premium Member
Just running around the resort today ... it looks like Disney's shuttering large sections of Riverside.
I checked the Permits forum and didn't see anything that would qualify as construction here.
Assuming @danlb_2000 agrees there's no relevant construction, I think this is a lack of demand.
I checked the Permits forum and didn't see anything that would qualify as construction here.
Assuming @danlb_2000 agrees there's no relevant construction, I think this is a lack of demand.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
This one has me confused.
Low crowds at Disneyland have nothing to do with weather in Florida.
Instead, low crowds at both WDW and DL suggest the two share a common source. Could it be politics? Sure. If someone is not going to WDW to protest "woke" Disney, there could be someone else not going to DL to protest "woke" Disney.
However, I do not think this is the driving force. As you suggest in a later post:
- Post COVID revenge vacations messed with the normal cycle. Post COVID, heading to a (generally) open air theme park seemed relatively safe. This also might explain why cruise ships are booming a year later. A year later, more and more feel comfortable packing in together on a ship, something they were less comfortable doing last year.
- Big theme park price increases also seem a likely culprit. Immediately after the end of the worst of COVID, vacationers were willing to spend the money they had saved over the previous two years not vacationing. They were more willing to pay Disney, no matter what the price. This year, not so much.
Last edited:
Eric Graham
Well-Known Member
All it takes is one or two bad earnings to slump a stock. Just wait. Or this constant government spending.
Eric Graham
Well-Known Member
Comcast is maybe up 8 dollars after 2 years. Big after earnings???
PREMiERdrum
Well-Known Member
"Reduced inventory" was deemed to be more palatable than shuttering entire resorts for now. Look for this to happen a few more places. Soon.
AFAIK.
With buildings officially offline and out of inventory, their occupancy rates can be made to look more appealing.
Make your money work harder than you do, spend the profits wisely and keep investing long term regardless of share price. Works for me for the last 33 years. Govt spending is not on my radar.
Eric Graham
Well-Known Member
Is that why the marked just dropped over 200 points and the VIX is up???
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member