Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

but the food (used) to be so good!

well ok some still is, but imo the quality and options have gone way down in most places since the creation of the dining plan and definitely after covid in others

Oh there is zero doubt of that. Anyone who suggests otherwise either has no recollection of dining prior or is outright lying

I will say somethings have evolved a little…quickserves and snacks are better…but sitdowns are significantly worse and that was a huge part of the draw to parks.

Prices are off but have been for all of Bobdom

Also fully expect a 10-20% increase in menu prices across the board before 1/1…to mess with people as they have since this stupid plan came into existence.

Bob never does anything different now.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Oh there is zero doubt of that. Anyone who suggests otherwise either has no recollection of dining prior or is outright lying

I will say somethings have evolved a little…quickserves and snacks are better…but sitdowns are significantly worse and that was a huge part of the draw to parks.

Prices are off but have been for all of Bobdom

Also fully expect a 10-20% increase in menu prices across the board before 1/1…to mess with people as they have since this stupid plan came into existence.

Bob never does anything different now.

I agree. They want the dining plan to make people think they are getting value from having it which is also why they have the "free dining" which isn't actually free dining

 

[Lilofan]

but the food (used) to be so good!

well ok some still is, but imo the quality and options have gone way down in most places since the creation of the dining plan and definitely after covid in others

You can’t be referring to the pizza. Never did and probably never will.

 

[GhostHost1000]

You can’t be referring to the pizza. Never did and probably never will.

actually the pizza was great at Wolfgang Pucks Express. RIP

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree. They want the dining plan to make people think they are getting value from having it which is also why they have the "free dining" which isn't actually free dining

I’m not so sure that “Lever” is going to be pulled this time?
I bet they loathed that…and since the price is so much higher now, they’ll view giving away as a “loss”.
Also look at the broader context: now the brains are saying that instead of a classic “recession”…some people will be working and just go bankrupt…which is the “triumph of capitalism”…apparently?

Anyway…it’s gonna be hard for Bob discounts to deal with THEIR personal recession/hell when the knives are already out on the stock. They can’t blame the normal culprit when they hit a rough patch: everyone else.

Fascinating…Mr. Spock

You can’t be referring to the pizza. Never did and probably never will.

People eating pizza…unless it’s to placate a picky child…At wdw “ain’t getting it right”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

actually the pizza was great at Wolfgang Pucks Express. RIP

The best place to eat in wdw for 20 years and it wasn’t close

That pathetic attempt at a restaurant now with the stupid gelato bar is just not worth acknowledging

 

[Lilofan]

actually the pizza was great at Wolfgang Pucks Express. RIP

Missed that fun afternoon at Downtown Disney. Had pizza outdoors at Wolfgang , drank rocket fuel Cuban espresso at the walk up window at Bongos, listened to CDs and read magazines at the Virgin store then saw an afternoon movie $6 at AMC

 

[lentesta]

Maybe we should just ask @lentesta what he meant? He is pretty a straight up guy.

Heh. Happy to help.

A couple of things:

1) I think WDW attendance is down overall vs 2022. Our travel agency bookings for WDW are down about 20% vs last year, and TP subscriptions for WDW are down about the same amount. And in talking to other travel agencies, WDW bookings seem to be down about that amount across the board - everyone seems to be in the 20-25% down range.

In conversations with Disney about this, they acknowledge it. I will be astonished if Iger says WDW attendance is the same or higher this year vs 2022 on the August earnings call.

And while WDW bookings are down, other destinations like Europe and cruises are up such that our overall TA numbers are much higher than in 2022. (I think DCL is running at ~96% capacity out of Port Canaveral, for example.)

FWIW, Universal says they're softer than expected too. While they won't say so publicly, in talking to them they acknowledge that a significant amount of their traffic comes from add-on trips after folks visit WDW.

So it's not a huge leap of logic to infer that the WDW slowdown is impacting all of central Florida's tourism numbers. That's why we see Orange County tax revenue down. (Why is tax rev down 6-7% if tourism is down 20%? The tax rev is on hotels, and my guess is day trip guests from within Florida don't use hotels. Intrastate travel is something like 46% of Central Florida traffic, IIRC.)

2) That said, I think the low wait times specifically for July 4 weekend were probably more related to weather and holiday trends, than anything else:

• There was a "stay indoors" heat advisory in effect for Central Florida for July 4, with a heat index of 112. That was part of a "heat dome" weather pattern for the previous weekend.
  
  
• Everyone knows Florida is hot in July. But this advisory specifically said it was "unusually hot".
  
  
• Likewise, there's always a chance of thunderstorms in Florida in July. And there was a 50% chance of afternoon thunderstorms.

So for July 4 specifically, I think the combination of the "stay indoors" advice along with the thunderstorms, kept people out of the parks.

3) Wait times for July 5-7 bounced back to average/above average. Magic Kingdom crowd levels were 7/6/6 on that Wed/Thu/Fri, on our 1-to-10 scale.

4) Here's some of the data I collected for the media interviews on this a couple weeks ago.

- There's been a general trend towards avoiding WDW on July 4 since at least last year, and probably going back to 2019.

- Universal Orlando and Disneyland also had low crowds on July 4. The low crowds at UOR seem to support the weather hypothesis.

- The low crowds at Disneyland seem to refute the idea that the slowdown is related to politics. For one thing, I don't think the Florida governor's advice has much impact on the vacation decisions that Californians make. Second, it would be awkward for the governor to acknowlege that his dispute with Disney specifically is hurting all of central Florida. That's a topic that nobody is going to touch.

5) I could be wrong on all of this. If there's better data that I missed, let me know.

 

[Splash4eva]

It’s too expensive at first glance…adding like $3000 to a family of 4 for a week (not including several hundreds in gratuities) on top of prices that are being emphatically rejected.

The Deluxe had value for the way we dined and at 1st i was annoyed when they announced dining wasnt returning until 2024 then saw that option wasnt available so it didnt matter to me anymore

 

[Tha Realest]

Heh. Happy to help.

A couple of things:

1) I think WDW attendance is down overall vs 2022. Our travel agency bookings for WDW are down about 20% vs last year, and TP subscriptions for WDW are down about the same amount. And in talking to other travel agencies, WDW bookings seem to be down about that amount across the board - everyone seems to be in the 20-25% down range.

In conversations with Disney about this, they acknowledge it. I will be astonished if Iger says WDW attendance is the same or higher this year vs 2022 on the August earnings call.

And while WDW bookings are down, other destinations like Europe and cruises are up such that our overall TA numbers are much higher than in 2022. (I think DCL is running at ~96% capacity out of Port Canaveral, for example.)

FWIW, Universal says they're softer than expected too. While they won't say so publicly, in talking to them they acknowledge that a significant amount of their traffic comes from add-on trips after folks visit WDW.

So it's not a huge leap of logic to infer that the WDW slowdown is impacting all of central Florida's tourism numbers. That's why we see Orange County tax revenue down. (Why is tax rev down 6-7% if tourism is down 20%? The tax rev is on hotels, and my guess is day trip guests from within Florida don't use hotels. Intrastate travel is something like 46% of WDW traffic, IIRC.)

2) That said, I think the low wait times specifically for July 4 weekend were probably more related to weather and holiday trends, than anything else:

• There was a "stay indoors" heat advisory in effect for Central Florida for July 4, with a heat index of 112. That was part of a "heat dome" weather pattern for the previous weekend.
  
  
• Everyone knows Florida is hot in July. But this advisory specifically said it was "unusually hot".
  
  
• Likewise, there's always a chance of thunderstorms in Florida in July. And there was a 50% chance of afternoon thunderstorms.

So for July 4 specifically, I think the combination of the "stay indoors" advice along with the thunderstorms, kept people out of the parks.

3) Wait times for July 5-7 bounced back to average/above average. Magic Kingdom crowd levels were 7/6/6 on that Wed/Thu/Fri, on our 1-to-10 scale.

4) Here's some of the data I collected for the media interviews on this a couple weeks ago.

View attachment 733424

- There's been a general trend towards avoiding WDW on July 4 since at least last year, and probably going back to 2019.

- Universal Orlando and Disneyland also had low crowds on July 4. The low crowds at UOR seem to support the weather hypothesis.

- The low crowds at Disneyland seem to refute the idea that the slowdown is related to politics. For one thing, I don't think the Florida governor's advice has much impact on the vacation decisions that Californians make. Second, it would be awkward for the governor to acknowlege that his dispute with Disney specifically is hurting all of central Florida. That's a topic that nobody is going to touch.

5) I could be wrong on all of this. If there's better data that I missed, let me know.

Thank you! The across the board Orlando slowdown is at least reflected/acknowledged in Comcast’s earnings this morning:

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Here are the figures for Comcast Theme Parks 2nd Q results

Overall revenue was up 22% and earnings up 32% though as mentioned above, they said revenue was down in Orlando, though still above pre-pandemic levels

So does seems to jive with idea that '22 was a bit of a peak for central Florida (revenge travel, etc) and now some slowdown as people go elsewhere

 

[wannabeBelle]

Great job @lentesta To piggy back on that I just read an article on the Royal Caribbean Blog that the Royal Caribbean Group which includes Celebrity Cruise and Silver Sea Cruise Lines as well as Royal Caribbean, posted better than expected earnings for the second quarter due to higher demand. Higher pricing, increased guest spending on extras onboard and strong demand are the drivers for this with the average capacity for sailings at 105%. Royal Caribbean Group plans to spend 4.2 Billion dollars on capital Expenditures which are usually indicators or new ships or new construction projects.
Marie

 

[el_super]

Thank you! The across the board Orlando slowdown is at least reflected/acknowledged in Comcast’s earnings this morning:

It is beyond weird to see Universal basically admit that their fate is entire within Disney's hands.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Heh. Happy to help.

A couple of things:

1) I think WDW attendance is down overall vs 2022. Our travel agency bookings for WDW are down about 20% vs last year, and TP subscriptions for WDW are down about the same amount. And in talking to other travel agencies, WDW bookings seem to be down about that amount across the board - everyone seems to be in the 20-25% down range.

In conversations with Disney about this, they acknowledge it. I will be astonished if Iger says WDW attendance is the same or higher this year vs 2022 on the August earnings call.

And while WDW bookings are down, other destinations like Europe and cruises are up such that our overall TA numbers are much higher than in 2022. (I think DCL is running at ~96% capacity out of Port Canaveral, for example.)

FWIW, Universal says they're softer than expected too. While they won't say so publicly, in talking to them they acknowledge that a significant amount of their traffic comes from add-on trips after folks visit WDW.

So it's not a huge leap of logic to infer that the WDW slowdown is impacting all of central Florida's tourism numbers. That's why we see Orange County tax revenue down. (Why is tax rev down 6-7% if tourism is down 20%? The tax rev is on hotels, and my guess is day trip guests from within Florida don't use hotels. Intrastate travel is something like 46% of Central Florida traffic, IIRC.)

2) That said, I think the low wait times specifically for July 4 weekend were probably more related to weather and holiday trends, than anything else:

• There was a "stay indoors" heat advisory in effect for Central Florida for July 4, with a heat index of 112. That was part of a "heat dome" weather pattern for the previous weekend.
  
  
• Everyone knows Florida is hot in July. But this advisory specifically said it was "unusually hot".
  
  
• Likewise, there's always a chance of thunderstorms in Florida in July. And there was a 50% chance of afternoon thunderstorms.

So for July 4 specifically, I think the combination of the "stay indoors" advice along with the thunderstorms, kept people out of the parks.

3) Wait times for July 5-7 bounced back to average/above average. Magic Kingdom crowd levels were 7/6/6 on that Wed/Thu/Fri, on our 1-to-10 scale.

4) Here's some of the data I collected for the media interviews on this a couple weeks ago.

View attachment 733424

- There's been a general trend towards avoiding WDW on July 4 since at least last year, and probably going back to 2019.

- Universal Orlando and Disneyland also had low crowds on July 4. The low crowds at UOR seem to support the weather hypothesis.

- The low crowds at Disneyland seem to refute the idea that the slowdown is related to politics. For one thing, I don't think the Florida governor's advice has much impact on the vacation decisions that Californians make. Second, it would be awkward for the governor to acknowlege that his dispute with Disney specifically is hurting all of central Florida. That's a topic that nobody is going to touch.

5) I could be wrong on all of this. If there's better data that I missed, let me know.

So if you had to say why attendance is down in a nutshell…what’s your best guess reason?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It is beyond weird to see Universal basically admit that their fate is entire within Disney's hands.

…now I’m convinced you’re never actually been to Orlando.

 

[el_super]

- The low crowds at Disneyland seem to refute the idea that the slowdown is related to politics. For one thing, I don't think the Florida governor's advice has much impact on the vacation decisions that Californians make.

Would it make sense that a very expensive theme park that is easily accessible to a large contingent of super-wealthy residents of multiple beach-side communities would see a collection of their visitors stop going simply because someone on the cable news told them to stop going?

Yes. Yes it would.

 

[Tha Realest]

It is beyond weird to see Universal basically admit that their fate is entire within Disney's hands.

Where did Universal “admit” that? That was a bit of CNBC editorializing by noting Disney too had experienced a downturn in attendance.

 

[twilight mitsuk]

Here are the figures for Comcast Theme Parks 2nd Q results

Overall revenue was up 22% and earnings up 32% though as mentioned above, they said revenue was down in Orlando, though still above pre-pandemic levels

So does seems to jive with idea that '22 was a bit of a peak for central Florida (revenge travel, etc) and now some slowdown as people go elsewhere

View attachment 733427

people waiting for epic universe to open

 

[Andrew25]

2025 is going to hit WDW harder than lightning hitting Spaceship Earth.

 

[Bocabear]

people waiting for epic universe to open

I think it is going to be a big uptick in Florida tourism...and the first all new park to open in Florida since Islands Of Adventure opened in 1999...so it will have been 26 years since something utterly new and original has opened...