Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Vegas Disney Fan]

They have plenty of options if they want to spend some money - filling the parks with characters and live entertainment is an easy quick fix. They could add a nighttime show to DAK and make the shows at MK, DHS, and Epcot more elaborate.

Adding parades, even if they are small and basic by Disney standards, would also help. DAK, DHS, and Epcot could all use them.

I think that’s only going to stop the bleeding though, not encourage people to book extra trips.

The “revenge travel” boom was great for Disney the last couple years but I think it threw off the normal travel cycle, rather than 25% of their audience coming annually on a 4 year cycle they had 50% come each of the last 2 years, now that everyone has gone the last couple years I don’t think something as minor as more characters or parades is going to convince them to spend thousands more on an extra trip before their next normal increment trip in a couple years.

Disney should have seen this coming and planned for it, instead they raised prices, took away perks, and nickel and dimed their guests, not only did they not plan for the inevitable decrease in demand but they alienated a lot of people in the process by charging more for less during the boom.

 

[Nubs70]

Those estimates are not going to be accurate.

Never said they were spot on but the methodology holds

WDW costs have increased, MHI purchasing power has decreased (as reflected by the adage of "wages not keeping up with inflation).

WDW has outpriced their median demographic.

Maybe, just maybe, WDW should not have put their finger on all of the surveys in the past year. The sensitivity analysis that justified their pricing model are flawed.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think that’s only going to stop the bleeding though, not encourage people to book extra trips.

The “revenge travel” boom was great for Disney the last couple years but I think it threw off the normal travel cycle, rather than 25% of their audience coming annually on a 4 year cycle they had 50% come each of the last 2 years, now that everyone has gone the last couple years I don’t think something as minor as more characters or parades is going to convince them to spend thousands more on an extra trip before their next normal increment trip in a couple years.

Disney should have seen this coming and planned for it, instead they raised prices, took away perks, and nickel and dimed their guests, not only did they not plan for the inevitable decrease in demand but they alienated a lot of people in the process by charging more for less during the boom.

I think “overall softness” in their business has manifested in parks to a level not seen before…maybe since the late 70’s/early 80’s when they were rather small and the studios were in a bad way?

They mishandled the Covid travel…we can blame chapek for that.

They implemented a bunch of pie in the sky revenue ideas they lusted over for DECADES all at once…and it pushed the prices and the lack of “leisure” aspects too far. That’s a huge mistake…they never tried to be cheap…but you don’t go over the cliff to exploitive. Disney 101.

My issue is not that chapek sucked. Of course he did. My problem is that the whole outfit sucks…because they doubled and tripled down on the same stupid ideas after he Went.

Outrageous “annual passes” with more blackouts than good days and still insisting you tell them where and when you’re gonna show up. Ridiculous.

And with crowd levels lower than much of “Come one…come all!” Years

Inexcusable.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Never said they were spot on but the methodology holds

WDW costs have increased, MHI purchasing power has decreased (as reflected by the adage of "wages not keeping up with inflation).

WDW has outpriced their median demographic.

Maybe, just maybe, WDW should not have put their finger on all of the surveys in the past year. The sensitivity analysis that justified their pricing model are flawed.

 

[crispy]

Never said they were spot on but the methodology holds

WDW costs have increased, MHI purchasing power has decreased (as reflected by the adage of "wages not keeping up with inflation).

WDW has outpriced their median demographic.

Maybe, just maybe, WDW should not have put their finger on all of the surveys in the past year. The sensitivity analysis that justified their pricing model are flawed.

Disney surveys are always designed to get the results they want. I used to get them all the time, and they never allowed room for dissenting opinions.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Disney surveys are always designed to get the results they want. I used to get them all the time, and they never allowed room for dissenting opinions.

and regardless the results can be misinterpreted to get whatever outcome they prefer.

Like how well liked Genie+ was for example

 

[doctornick]

Can one of the resident spin artists put some pixie dust on this.

The way I see it we are entering into dark times for the parks.

No “darker” than it currently is. The fact that attendance is down at least makes the parks more enjoyable to attend.

I’d say the parks more likely to languish than to actually decline.

 

[DisneyCane]

Never said they were spot on but the methodology holds

WDW costs have increased, MHI purchasing power has decreased (as reflected by the adage of "wages not keeping up with inflation).

WDW has outpriced their median demographic.

Maybe, just maybe, WDW should not have put their finger on all of the surveys in the past year. The sensitivity analysis that justified their pricing model are flawed.

Ticket prices have increased at a significantly higher rate than inflation in general. Even if purchasing power has stayed flat recently that's still an issue because the experience has not improved to justify the real cost increase. The effect is made worse by the hit to purchasing power. It isn't just a median income issue. With respect to WDW, this hits all but the top 5%. It still has an effect on them but they have enough buffer disposable income to grin and bear it.

 

[doctornick]

Now, imagine that new projects are being filtered strictly through a lens of marketability... capacity and gues experience be dawned.

The pot is getting smaller.

And that’s what built this (kinda) mess and would only exacerbate. They need to focus on making the parks better and more enjoyable as opposed to doing stuff they feel has a marketing “buzz”. The parks don’t need to each get a popular IP e-ticket - they need a bunch of C-tickets each to improve capacity.

 

[Trauma]

You’re clearly depressed, the only way I can help is say that maybe you should take a break from the boards and social media. Like for a month.

Depressed?

Your funny.

We have the biggest even in recent times for Orlando theme parks just around the corner.

Not to mention when Epic opens I’m sure Disney will be quick to respond with news of building something, maybe, in the next 10 years.

Oh and price increases!!! Don’t forget the price increases!!

 

[Lilofan]

Depressed?

Your funny.

We have the biggest even in recent times for Orlando theme parks just around the corner.

Not to mention when Epic opens I’m sure Disney will be quick to respond with news of building something, maybe, in the next 10 years.

Oh and price increases!!! Don’t forget the price increases!!

3 guaranteed things in life - Death, Taxes, and Price Increases

 

[JD80]

Never said they were spot on but the methodology holds

WDW costs have increased, MHI purchasing power has decreased (as reflected by the adage of "wages not keeping up with inflation).

WDW has outpriced their median demographic.

Maybe, just maybe, WDW should not have put their finger on all of the surveys in the past year. The sensitivity analysis that justified their pricing model are flawed.

MHI has increased 2k since 2018 (adjusted for inflation)
WDW tickets have increase above inflation since 2019
WDW Hotels are relatively flat since 2019, marginally higher perhaps.

Their pricing it too high for sure though, but speaking to that chart it's not dramatically different if I had to guess. Just slightly worse.

There needs to be a big correction.

 

[JD80]

Depressed?

Your funny.

We have the biggest even in recent times for Orlando theme parks just around the corner.

Not to mention when Epic opens I’m sure Disney will be quick to respond with news of building something, maybe, in the next 10 years.

Oh and price increases!!! Don’t forget the price increases!!

The darkest time for the parks was 4 years ago.

Now? Wait and see. I expect good things.

 

[fgmnt]

Now, imagine that new projects are being filtered strictly through a lens of marketability... capacity and gues experience be dawned.

The pot is getting smaller.

As if! Surely they won't make that mistake again.

Lucy, you promise to hold the football this time?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

and regardless the results can be misinterpreted to get whatever outcome they prefer.

Like how well liked Genie+ was for example

I think Dr. Evil tried to say people like park reservations and hopping restrictions too

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The darkest time for the parks was 4 years ago.

Now? Wait and see. I expect good things.

A worldwide health crisis where no one knew what to do was not “the darkest time for parks”

The problem with parks right now is absolutely terrible management based on ridiculous bad business “theory”

Enjoy the koolaid

 

[GhostHost1000]

A worldwide health crisis where no one knew what to do was not “the darkest time for parks”

The problem with parks right now is absolutely terrible management based on ridiculous bad business “theory”

Enjoy the koolaid

and Uni didn’t seem to come out of Covid bad

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

and Uni didn’t seem to come out of Covid bad

…perhaps because they saw it as an opportunity to not treat their customers like $h!&??

…and even draw in some new ones

 

[GhostHost1000]

…perhaps because they saw it as an opportunity to not treat their customers like $h!&??

…and even draw in some new ones

Meanwhile Disney took it as an opportunity to really make some changes and show how much they dislike their DVC and AP holders among other guests and nickel and dime even more

 

[Trauma]

The darkest time for the parks was 4 years ago.

Now? Wait and see. I expect good things.

I appreciate your positive outlook, I really do.

I just won’t be able to adopt it until a major leadership change occurs.

Starting with the weatherman.