Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[JD80]

We've had this conversation before where we spent a week talking about how the cost of food in different parts of the country and people from areas of lower cost were shocked at the cost of food in areas of higher cost.

As someone from the Northeast, WDW prices aren't much higher if not identical to local Panera/Chipotle etc. And on par with food you get at rest stops along 95.

I think where WDW loses value is in a lot of their sit down restaurants. That was a brief topic on Testa's show this week.

 

[Andrew M]

We've had this conversation before where we spent a week talking about how the cost of food in different parts of the country and people from areas of lower cost were shocked at the cost of food in areas of higher cost.

As someone from the Northeast, WDW prices aren't much higher if not identical to local Panera/Chipotle etc. And on par with food you get at rest stops along 95.

I think where WDW loses value is in a lot of their sit down restaurants. That was a brief topic on Testa's show this week.

Yep, I'm from NYC and always found it funny that people complained about there prices when we thought they were fairly reasonable. WDW is actually cheaper than going to a sporting event around here or prices of food stands/restaurants in Manhattan or down the shore.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yep, I'm from NYC and always found it funny that people complained about there prices when we thought they were fairly reasonable. WDW is actually cheaper than going to a sporting event around here or prices of food stands/restaurants in Manhattan or down the shore.

I'm from Niagara Falls Canada and I find Disney prices a lot higher than what I pay here.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Yep, I'm from NYC and always found it funny that people complained about there prices when we thought they were fairly reasonable. WDW is actually cheaper than going to a sporting event around here or prices of food stands/restaurants in Manhattan or down the shore.

The difference is you arent going to a sporting event or eating in Manhattan for every meal for a block of days, such as you would when you are on vacation. If you dont have the ability or desire to leave the WDW property, the cost of food has to be factored into your vacation budget. At a sporting event in Manhattan, I can make the choice to eat there or go out on the way home from the event, which might be more reasonable. Marie

 

[Tha Realest]

The difference is you arent going to a sporting event or eating in Manhattan for every meal for a block of days, such as you would when you are on vacation. If you dont have the ability or desire to leave the WDW property, the cost of food has to be factored into your vacation budget. At a sporting event in Manhattan, I can make the choice to eat there or go out on the way home from the event, which might be more reasonable. Marie

Great points.

This is where the shell game and levers may come back to bite them. Sure, variable pricing may eke out more YOY revenue than the year before on ticket prices, and G+ may help juice the numbers too, and those help offset dwindling attendance…but the real profit seems to lay with the dining and eating options, and less people means less profit, ultimately. As @PREMiERdrum has indicated, the resorts are already in an operational conundrum, and they are playing games with availability and taking wings offline (likely to keep down the staffing and numbers of rooms that need to be readied for the next guest).

In sum, it feels like they succeeded at setting a new baseline for tickets and room rates, but possibly at the cost of their more reliable profit centers?

 

[Andrew M]

The difference is you arent going to a sporting event or eating in Manhattan for every meal for a block of days, such as you would when you are on vacation. If you dont have the ability or desire to leave the WDW property, the cost of food has to be factored into your vacation budget. At a sporting event in Manhattan, I can make the choice to eat there or go out on the way home from the event, which might be more reasonable. Marie

Well, for those of us that live in NYC and work in Manhattan, we kinda do pay those prices every day.

I get prices are much cheaper in most other places in the country, but even local restaurants around my house in Staten Island are the same price point as WDW table service meals.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

Great points.

This is where the shell game and levers may come back to bite them. Sure, variable pricing may eke out more YOY revenue than the year before on ticket prices, and G+ may help juice the numbers too, and those help offset dwindling attendance…but the real profit seems to lay with the dining and eating options, and less people means less profit, ultimately. As @PREMiERdrum has indicated, the resorts are already in an operational conundrum, and they are playing games with availability and taking wings offline (likely to keep down the staffing and numbers of rooms that need to be readied for the next guest).

In sum, it feels like they succeeded at setting a new baseline for tickets and room rates, but possibly at the cost of their more reliable profit centers?

100% correct.

In short, a stroke of short-term brilliance that's bringing about long-term disaster.

Sounds like more of the All Star complex is going offline (if not already), and a chunk of capacity could be moving over to some of the blind or aggregate booking sites. If you want an absolute bottom-dollar price on a Value Resort, keep searching Hotwire / Booking / Kayak, etc.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Well, for those of us that live in NYC and work in Manhattan, we kinda do pay those prices every day.

I get prices are much cheaper in most other places in the country, but even local restaurants around my house in Staten Island are the same price point as WDW table service meals.

I also live on Staten Island and again it depends on where you are going both at home and at WDW. Some are reasonable, some arent. In Staten Island, you do have more of a choice as to where you are going to eat though in terms of price point as you are probably driving to a restaurant, so it is just a question of where you want to go, what you want for type of food and how fancy you feel like being. In WDW you may be in a park and limited in your options or dont choose to leave the property again limiting your options. Marie

 

[Jrb1979]

100% correct.

In short, a stroke of short-term brilliance that's bringing about long-term disaster.

Sounds like more of the All Star complex is going offline (if not already), and a chunk of capacity could be moving over to some of the blind or aggregate booking sites. If you want an absolute bottom-dollar price on a Value Resort, keep searching Hotwire / Booking / Kayak, etc.

IMO it looks good on them for trying to become a luxury vacation spot when they have never been one. Yes they were more expensive than your average place but they were never price wise on the level of a European vacation.

 

[Lilofan]

Yep, I'm from NYC and always found it funny that people complained about there prices when we thought they were fairly reasonable. WDW is actually cheaper than going to a sporting event around here or prices of food stands/restaurants in Manhattan or down the shore.

We eat well and cheap in the diverse Jackson Heights Queens the melting pot of the world. It is delish food from all over the world in many simple surroundings. Many cheap eats in Chinatown also. WDW food prices are high with mediocre food.

 

[Lilofan]

IMO it looks good on them for trying to become a luxury vacation spot when they have never been one. Yes they were more expensive than your average place but they were never price wise on the level of a European vacation.

European vacations are more affordable minus the scams some places try to swindle the tourists into and the frequent street protests that close off areas where we wanted to visit.

 

[LSLS]

Great points.

This is where the shell game and levers may come back to bite them. Sure, variable pricing may eke out more YOY revenue than the year before on ticket prices, and G+ may help juice the numbers too, and those help offset dwindling attendance…but the real profit seems to lay with the dining and eating options, and less people means less profit, ultimately. As @PREMiERdrum has indicated, the resorts are already in an operational conundrum, and they are playing games with availability and taking wings offline (likely to keep down the staffing and numbers of rooms that need to be readied for the next guest).

In sum, it feels like they succeeded at setting a new baseline for tickets and room rates, but possibly at the cost of their more reliable profit centers?

Which is why when people say less people is good for the customer at WDW and what they want, it's flat out wrong. They don't leave the staffing the same and reward you for still coming down, they bare bones it and make it still feel uncomfortable. It'd be great to get a room in a hotel and have nobody else within 3 or 4 rooms of us to give us a bit more privacy. Or give us a nicer upgrade because there was space. Instead, it's take more wings offline and cram them into the ones still open.

 

[el_super]

Which is why when people say less people is good for the customer at WDW and what they want, it's flat out wrong.

Because people like waiting in lines and having crowded parks?

 

[Jrb1979]

Because people like waiting in lines and having crowded parks?

People don't but yet nobody makes a big deal at other parks. Lines at Knotts Berry Farm for the big coasters can get to 2 hours. People there deal with it.

 

[LSLS]

Because people like waiting in lines and having crowded parks?

Of course they don't, but less people does not mean less lines if you decrease staffing. If there are 20 people in line at a given time to check in (or purchase food) with 4 counters open a year ago, and the number of people in line drops to 10, but now there is only one open counter, you did not decrease your line, but you have less people. Disney isn't jumping for joy at less crowds to make things more enjoyable, they are cutting back because they think people will deal with seeing the same crowds they have the past years. Again, wait times and crowd levels are NOT the same thing.

 

[el_super]

People don't but yet nobody makes a big deal at other parks. Lines at Knotts Berry Farm for the big coasters can get to 2 hours. People there deal with it.

You know except for the big signs they started rolling out to get people to snitch on line cheats... line management is a serious problem at Knott's. Thank goodness they offer a paid line skip.

 

[Jrb1979]

You know except for the big signs they started rolling out to get people to snitch on line cheats... line management is a serious problem at Knott's. Thank goodness they offer a paid line skip.

While that is true the majority of guests don't get the paid line skip due to the price so most wait in line. I welcome snitching on line jumpers. There is absolutely no reason that people should push through a line to catch up to their party.

 

[JD80]

I also live on Staten Island and again it depends on where you are going both at home and at WDW. Some are reasonable, some arent. In Staten Island, you do have more of a choice as to where you are going to eat though in terms of price point as you are probably driving to a restaurant, so it is just a question of where you want to go, what you want for type of food and how fancy you feel like being. In WDW you may be in a park and limited in your options or dont choose to leave the property again limiting your options. Marie

This is the same conversation with the same people. Here are all the facts we settled on last time.

• Some areas of the country are more expensive than others.
• Within each area of the country there are cheap and there are more expensive places to buy food.
• WDW is on par, roughly, with some of the more expensive places to live. This is more than just "here in NYC".
• When you travel to any resort, you are typically restricted to the options provided to you at that resort and there is a built in expectation of cost.
• However, being in WDW does not restrict you from having food delivered to you with a reduced cost.

Any article describing how expensive WDW food is without the context of the broader economy is worthless.

 

[JD80]

European vacations are more affordable minus the scams some places try to swindle the tourists into and the frequent street protests that close off areas where we wanted to visit.

European vacations are typically not more affordable that many domestic vacations. Airfaire alone is typically around $1000 give or take 30%. Family of four you're already spending $4000 before you do anything.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Agreed. I was having this discussion the other night with a friend. We were discussing the breakfast option at Topolino's Terrace. There is no way I would spend $50 per adult for breakfast. Not a shot. Im sure the food is great and Im sure the character interactions are lovely but this is definitely not worth it for me. Marie