Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To whatever level WDW's attendance is down, it seems to be made up for by the other parks and resorts since revenue for the overall division is still up.

Which of course is the point: if WDW is the only resort struggling, what specific factors are there, that are FLORIDA specific, that can be attributed to the cause?

Nothing mentioned so far has really been Florida specific, except of course the heat.

Every 3 months…a little weasel goes in front of a mic and explains the math

“Cuts and price increases”

Every 3 months

 

[natatomic]

…pick any day and you’ll see it

Honestly, the busiest month that I’ve seen the last few years is February. Granted, I avoid Christmas at Disney, and I’m sure that’s still the busiest. But it seems the entire northeast (and other random regions) is out of school for “winter break” in February now, and they all flock to Florida for a break from the cold. It used to be a dead month, aside from Presidents’ Day weekend, but now I find the entire month pretty miserable. I think it was busier then than it is now, and maybe people - particularly the northerners - are choosing to do their Disney vacations at a more temperate time of year rather than deal with our gruesome summers.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Honestly, the busiest month that I’ve seen the last few years is February. Granted, I avoid Christmas at Disney, and I’m sure that’s still the busiest. But it seems the entire northeast (and other random regions) is out of school for “winter break” in February now, and they all flock to Florida for a break from the cold. It used to be a dead month, aside from Presidents’ Day weekend, but now I find the entire month pretty miserable. I think it was busier then than it is now, and maybe people - particularly the northerners - are choosing to do their Disney vacations at a more temperate time of year rather than deal with our gruesome summers.

Which parts of the “northeast” are off in February?
I gotta cross a state line or two and go there

Also…travel started distributing across the whole calendar 25 years ago…Disney encouraged it. There were people (no comment) who used to look at these things….

But here’s a couple of points:

1. It is still way easier for groups to travel when school is not in session

2. The weather sucks everywhere now

3. They were up to near 60 million clicks in 2018-19. Not close now…down probably 5 mil? That’s conservative. They don’t publish the stats…but they never deny them either.

This isn’t “evolution”…it’s decline.

Want to know what it is?

PRICE and HASSLE

and in a lot of cases…people not wanting to pay to be hassled.

 

[Disstevefan1]

…pick any day and you’ll see it

 

[wannabeBelle]

For NYC Public schools specifically for 2024:

February 19– 23

Monday– Friday

Midwinter Recess, schools closed

 

[natatomic]

Which parts of the “northeast” are off in February?
I gotta cross a state line or two and go there

I have a small photography business, and almost all my clients are vacationers. All of the families I photographed in February were from New Jersey. So I guess that entire state is empty then.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh I have been.

See this is what doesn’t come through…
Because for 5 years nothing under your name has shown any understanding about the parks business…Disney…really basic consumer economics. Nothing

You don’t believe anyone with more experience/better understanding than you.

Never a path to success…by the way…

…and nothing you say indicates you even set foot in a Disney park. There’s no “grasp” behind it. It looks like you search reddit and vloggers for “takes”.

Let me find an example…

I have been sitting here contemplating all the reasoning being put forth here for the downturn in attendance, and trying to gauge how serious it is and come up empty almost every time.

This thread as existed as a way of trying to frame all these attendance reports as a referendum on Iger and his management of the parks with the hope that it was a sign that Disney was facing a comeuppance. They will RUE THE DAY! After a year though, it's pretty clear something else is going on that isn't at all related to the theories that most have put forward here.

Magic Kingdom had a light Memorial Day weekend... sure. But Genie+ and reservations and the lack of entertainment and "general lowering of quality" were all still present on Tuesday when the wait times shot back up. All of those things were present at Epcot too over the weekend when Epcot was doing a pretty good business. Even at Disneyland, where all those things still exist, they had a pretty healthy weekend. That's even with someone reporting that they spent $294 on a one-day park hopper with parking.

Bad management doesn't explain bad attendance at one park on a specific day. Clearly people still want to go.

…the prosecution rests.

 

[Grimley1968]

I'm amazed at the continued equating of wait times with crowd levels, when it's been shown repeatedly that the direct connection between crowds and wait times was severed years ago by WDW.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I have a small photography business, and almost all my clients are vacationers. All of the families I photographed in February were from New Jersey. So I guess that entire state is empty then.

Pretty sure I’m not the only one left…

A lot of people bag the week to travel now…especially on “short weeks” with holidays.

But nothing new. Been going on for decades.

By Disneys own admission…attendance is DOWN…not “shifting”

 

[natatomic]

Pretty sure I’m not the only one left…

A lot of people bag the week to travel now…especially on “short weeks” with holidays.

But nothing new. Been going on for decades.

By Disneys own admission…attendance is DOWN…not “shifting”

Oh, I agree with that too. I’ve just noticed there’s less “dead” times of year, as well. September is probably the slowest, but all other former “slow” seasons don’t seem to exist anymore, even if attendance is down overall. Just my personal anecdote, but obviously Disney knows more accurate numbers than I!

 

[el_super]

Isn't Disneyland mainly annual pass holders? Could just be people who don't have the ability to get the most out of passes are not seeing the value in paying the prices for tickets anymore, which is why you see the large drop in hotels as well.

Disneyland is doing just fine. They've dialed back access to the annual passes and significantly raised the prices, while simultaneously introducing lower cost ticket options (like the 3 days for ~$80/day).

But the heat makes no sense as has been shown multiple times.

It makes perfect sense when you are divining attendance by wait times and crowd indexes.

And you are kidding yourself if you think their largest park seeing decreases is not a concern, even if DCL propped it up some last year.

It's not because, again, whatever decrease is occurring at WDW is being offset by increases at Disneyland, DCL and the international parks. WDW is by far, their biggest money maker, and if there was a significant drop in revenue from WDW, the other parks wouldn't be able to make up the difference. That is telling me that WDW is probably only down a small fraction of what their usual revenue would be. Probably around the 1% to 2% range.

If it was a concern they would have done something about it, which, they haven't.

 

[el_super]

Always happy to help someone who has blinders on. Just wanted you to know I’m here seeing it and experiencing it unlike you just making things up.

Yep. You sure proved me wrong when I said people still wanted to go by... you know... actually being there.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Yep. You sure proved me wrong when I said people still wanted to go by... you know... actually being there.

I’m a DVC member and go often because that’s what the system is setup for, repeat visits rather you do the parks or not, that’s why I’ve seen so many trends over the years.

Bob doesn’t like us and AP holders though because we don’t spend as much as the family blowing their savings on a big trip. Those are the people who are beginning to vacation elsewhere because of the value there vs all the complexity vacationing at Disney along with expense now. That is the trend that should be troubling to Bob and company. That, and a record number of DVC contract resales since Covid

 

[GhostHost1000]

If it was a concern they would have done something about it, which, they haven't.

You mean like discount park tickets in the summer, free water park visits on the day of checkin next year, along with more resort discounts than usual?

 

[el_super]

I’m a DVC member and go often because that’s what the system is setup for

If it's such a bad experience though... why? Even if it was free? What's the point of going at all?

You mean like discount park tickets in the summer, free water park visits on the day of checkin next year, along with more resort discounts than usual?

No, I mean like eliminating the reservations, making Genie+ free, adding back all the services and entertainment that people keep saying are the root cause of this downturn. Remember when people honestly thought Iger was going to come in and put a stop to all this evil that Chapek unleashed?

Apparently there was never a need to, because it wasn't the problem.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh, I agree with that too. I’ve just noticed there’s less “dead” times of year, as well. September is probably the slowest, but all other former “slow” seasons don’t seem to exist anymore, even if attendance is down overall. Just my personal anecdote, but obviously Disney knows more accurate numbers than I!

That was by design and it’s worked spectacularly…but the goal was not to get significant declines during vacations, holiday weekends, etc.

 

[natatomic]

That was by design and it’s worked spectacularly…but the goal was not to get significant declines during vacations, holiday weekends, etc.

Very true

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The root cause of the downturn is the value is not there for the price…and the gap is widening

It’s not because they fired Off Kilter and took away a “free” fastpass to Kali River rapids…that’s just sauce on top of the meal.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Apparently there was never a need to, because it wasn't the problem.

So what is the problem? Nothing? Everything is looking up? I’ll wait.

 

[Jrb1979]

So what is the problem? Nothing? Everything is looking up? I’ll wait.

Nothing is the problem. The plan all along was to have lower attendance to please those that do go.