Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Disstevefan1]

And the fact that they’re probably staffing to projected attendance rather than fully staffing all areas every day.

THIS! They probably use PPR data to run at what (they think) it the proper, minimal staff possible.

And they probably staff and run attractions depending on PPR data, keeping the wait times at a steady, miserable level at any attendance level.

 

[Tha Realest]

To be fair, Universal is having attendance issues as well… Disney was just overcrowded before, but all Orlando parks, and I think the whole tourism industry, is slowing down.

Southwest is offering 40% off flights now. Yes, you read that correctly. I could fly RT from the Midwest to Orlando for $250 throughout the fall (and probably cheaper on certain dates)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No - but hurry! They're on sale for a limited time and they've already been out for nearly 2 full months! Should sell out sometime soon... right!?

My rather weak math says the current “equivalent”…it actually has less benefits price for a pass is 298% what I paid for the last one before the plague…

But I might have forgot a decimal point?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Southwest is offering 40% off flights now. Yes, you read that correctly. I could fly RT from the Midwest to Orlando for $250 throughout the fall (and probably cheaper on certain dates)

I’m getting bombarded by them…

But I don’t think I’ve flown them in years cause they wrecked their schedule and increased the prices beyond belief

Maybe someday?

 

[JoeCamel]

Southwest is offering 40% off flights now. Yes, you read that correctly. I could fly RT from the Midwest to Orlando for $250 throughout the fall (and probably cheaper on certain dates)

I saw where Southwest was more than Delta in several cases. They used to be a low cost airline but today's traveler has other options and taking 40% off inflated prices is the oldest sales gimmick out there

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Everything they’ve done since April says the same thing…and I heard through trusted travel people dating to the late fall/holidays that it was coming. Disney dug in their heels…privately behind the scenes…and insisted that crowds that were not booking would show up…because Bob insisted he figured it out and discounts would never be needed again.

We should all be aware of who we buy fromd

Those APs sell out yet??

No, but I did get a push notification for a new section in My Disney Experience called "That's My Magic" where annual Passholders tell stories about why bring a Passholder is so great

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No, but I did get a push notification for a new section in My Disney Experience called "That's My Magic" where annual Passholders tell stories about why bring a Passholder is so great

View attachment 723739

You get a referral credit with that?

If so…how low rent “Eisner”
That is….
That billionaire fool that ruined everything

 

[Tha Realest]

I saw where Southwest was more than Delta in several cases. They used to be a low cost airline but today's traveler has other options and taking 40% off inflated prices is the oldest sales gimmick out there

Yeah I’ve got a ton of miles and companion pass so kind of locked in with them for the rest of the year. I had to take a one-off trip to LA pre-Covid and was shocked at how much cheaper it was on AA (like low $200s) vs SWA (low $500s).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I saw where Southwest was more than Delta in several cases. They used to be a low cost airline but today's traveler has other options and taking 40% off inflated prices is the oldest sales gimmick out there

They wrecked themselves the minute they bought Valuejet…sorry - “airtran” for the kids at home…

It’s a 1:1 correlation on the timeline.

But I did notice something interesting…Southwest’s route problems are attributed to them not having enough planes.

So they only have 737s…which was lauded because it kept costs low. But a large part of their fleet aged out over the last 10 years.

New planes…no problem. Except it was the 737 Max.

They still don’t have enough jets…playing catch-up for years.

Philly had 9-11 nonstops per day to Orlando for their first 10 years in the market.
They current have 3 per week.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be fair, Universal is having attendance issues as well… Disney was just overcrowded before, but all Orlando parks, and I think the whole tourism industry, is slowing down.

Travel recessions hit before regular ones…at least everytime since V-J day

The one outlier was the housing crash…because that was a REAL crash and gross financial malfeasance institutionally.

But yes…Orlando slowing is systemic…

But that doesn’t mean it’s not entirely price overreach.

You know Disney can’t sell dvc for the last 2 years?
What’s that telling you?

 

[bmr1591]

You know Disney can’t sell dvc for the last 2 years?

My wife and I have considered a DVC, but we don't like the current hotel offerings (much less the prices). When I contacted and asked about other places, they said I could get one at Boardwalk with a 2042 contract expiration for a higher price than Riviera. Why would I ever spend more money on a shorter contract? Obviously they're trying to push their next DVCs, but the whole thing is overpriced for what you get, especially the monthly fees.

 

[Tha Realest]

.

You know Disney can’t sell dvc for the last 2 years?
What’s that telling you?

You don’t want to be a decades-long owner of this?

 

[CampbellzSoup]

I go several times a year I have absolutely no incentive to make it up it’s hot and very crowded.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You don’t want to be a decades-long owner of this?

View attachment 723746View attachment 723747View attachment 723748

Oh my god!!

Don’t show me that again!!!

That looks like a rodeway inn in Florence, SC

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I go several times a year I have absolutely no incentive to make it up it’s hot and very crowded.

Pics? Just Checked the wait times and they appear as they have been for months.

Not bad considering their low capacity.

I’m sure it’s hot…it’s Orlando in June. If you want cool, go to Minnesota

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My wife and I have considered a DVC, but we don't like the current hotel offerings (much less the prices). When I contacted and asked about other places, they said I could get one at Boardwalk with a 2042 contract expiration for a higher price than Riviera. Why would I ever spend more money on a shorter contract? Obviously they're trying to push their next DVCs, but the whole thing is overpriced for what you get, especially the monthly fees.

The used contract sales from dvc are the biggest joke ever…they’re “lol” caliber

 

[el_super]

These waits are obviously exaggerated, but the once-in-a-lifetime family doesn't know that. To me, it sounds like taking advantage over the guests consumer.

I will take the slightly less cynical outlook that, as long as Genie+ is saving them time (over what the standby wait is), it's still offering value. If the Genie+ waits end up being longer than Standby (what was happening at Disneyland), then there is a pricing problem because the demand is too high.

Bob insisted he figured it out and discounts would never be needed again.

Discounts have always been "one of the levers" they can pull. No one said discounting would never be offered again.

To be fair, Universal is having attendance issues as well… Disney was just overcrowded before, but all Orlando parks, and I think the whole tourism industry, is slowing down.

This.

The real trick is convincing the locals that they should come out when it's cheap, but not expect cheap admissions going forward. They've ripped the band-aid off on that, so it should be easier going forward to restrict or limit AP sales/entries.

 

[Jrb1979]

I will take the slightly less cynical outlook that, as long as Genie+ is saving them time (over what the standby wait is), it's still offering value. If the Genie+ waits end up being longer than Standby (what was happening at Disneyland), then there is a pricing problem because the demand is too high.



Discounts have always been "one of the levers" they can pull. No one said discounting would never be offered again.




This.

The real trick is convincing the locals that they should come out when it's cheap, but not expect cheap admissions going forward. They've ripped the band-aid off on that, so it should be easier going forward to restrict or limit AP sales/entries.

I laugh at how the Mouse treats AP holders. You look at Universal, SeaWorld and most of the regional parks. They go out of their way to please them and give them perks. As much as Disney and Universal's attendance is down, a lot of the regional parks are packed every weekend.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Was wondering if anyway to quantify how slow things are and obviously tough as anything posted by Disney at least may be very inflated, etc.

Did find this chart at Thrill Data that shows their reported wait times (so not Disney's published) for this date going back several years.

One thing that stands out to me is that wait times were on the rise and today it just seem smore like inline with 2016, 2017, etc ... so maybe people just got used to the increased crowds so now *feels* like super low crowds in comparison but it was more that 2019 and 2022 was *very* crowded (with last year probably still some not full ride capacity playing a role)

 

[Tha Realest]

Was wondering if anyway to quantify how slow things are and obviously tough as anything posted by Disney at least may be very inflated, etc.

Did find this chart at Thrill Data that shows their reported wait times (so not Disney's published) for this date going back several years.

One thing that stands out to me is that wait times were on the rise and today it just seem smore like inline with 2016, 2017, etc ... so maybe people just got used to the increased crowds so now *feels* like super low crowds in comparison but it was more that 2019 and 2022 was *very* crowded (with last year probably still some not full ride capacity playing a role)

View attachment 723761

I appreciate your methodology. I do not know if posted wait times = actual wait times. I tend to view the post-Genie+ period like the “juiced ball” era in MLB.