Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

J

jpeden

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
The TEA Theme Index would seem to indicate that attendance was indeed down last year and still has not fully recovered to 2019 levels.
 
bmr1591

bmr1591

Well-Known Member
orion54 said:
No offense but you're not the guests that are keeping the lights on at WDW if this is your first trip in over a decade. They can get your money and then won't see you again for another decade+ if that. WDW was built on generations coming back year after year, not decade after decade.
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You’re correct, but since January, we’ve been two other times and have four more trips planned through next January. So we quickly have become the customer they want, but our opinions on Genie+ and Enchantment haven’t changed. We prefer Enchantment to Happily Ever After.
 
O

orion54

Active Member
bmr1591 said:
You’re correct, but since January, we’ve been two other times and have four more trips planned through next January. So we quickly have become the customer they want, but our opinions on Genie+ and Enchantment haven’t changed. We prefer Enchantment to Happily Ever After.
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Enchantment wasn't keeping people in MK. Large number of people weren't even watching it. Contrast that to HEA. The only opinion that matters on Enchantment vs. HEA is $$$. More people are staying to watch and spend afterwards vs. Enchantment.

Genie+ was the Bob's lazy and cheap way to pad to the bottom line without investing in WDW. Now that money has gone from being a bonus to a dependency. The Bob's have neglected WDW and DL at the same time increasing prices across the board. When you try to brand yourself as "luxury" but treat the product like Six Flags, you can now see the result of their hubris.
 
bmr1591

bmr1591

Well-Known Member
orion54 said:
Enchantment wasn't keeping people in MK. Large number of people weren't even watching it. Contrast that to HEA. The only opinion that matters on Enchantment vs. HEA is $$$. More people are staying to watch and spend afterwards vs. Enchantment.
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Are they though? Numbers, in general, have fallen since HEA came back. When DE was live, we were having record breaking crowds.

And that's an example of skewing data to fit a narrative. Obviously, DE being around didn't impact crowd sizes, but if one just looked at the numbers, they sure could argue it. That's why the studies being done are important. Take away just numbers and get real thoughts and opinions from your consumer.
 
Andrew25

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
bmr1591 said:
Are they though? Numbers, in general, have fallen since HEA came back. When DE was live, we were having record breaking crowds.

And that's an example of skewing data to fit a narrative. Obviously, DE being around didn't impact crowd sizes, but if one just looked at the numbers, they sure could argue it. That's why the studies being done are important. Take away just numbers and get real thoughts and opinions from your consumer.
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HEA came back because they saw that numbers were starting to decline. Remember, Disney has visibility/projections far into the future that we can't see. That's why APs are back on sale, hotel room discounts, dining plan is back, etc.
 
O

orion54

Active Member
bmr1591 said:
Are they though? Numbers, in general, have fallen since HEA came back. When DE was live, we were having record breaking crowds.

And that's an example of skewing data to fit a narrative. Obviously, DE being around didn't impact crowd sizes, but if one just looked at the numbers, they sure could argue it. That's why the studies being done are important. Take away just numbers and get real thoughts and opinions from your consumer.
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I'm not try to fit any narrative. If Enchantment moved numbers it would still be here. Disney doesn't have the money and isn't willing to spend it unless it makes them more period. Same with Harmonious. Record numbers are what Disney is telling people. See the post above on TEA index. The fact that you like Enchantment vs HEA, good for you. A larger majority doesn't and they are just as entitled to their opinion. Doesn't change the fact that Disney doesn't spend money to make people happy. Their research showed Enchantment and Harmonious were not moving the needle positively.
 
O

orion54

Active Member
Andrew25 said:
HEA came back because they saw that numbers were starting to decline. Remember, Disney has visibility/projections far into the future that we can't see. That's why APs are back on sale, hotel room discounts, dining plan is back, etc.
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Exactly. This was part of McCarthy's plan. Their hubris believed that they can turn that cashflow spigot on anytime they wanted and it would be there. She even said it in the earnings calls from previous quarters. APs and discounts would not come back unless they needed to increase earnings.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
orion54 said:
I'm not try to fit any narrative. If Enchantment moved numbers it would still be here. Disney doesn't have the money and isn't willing to spend it unless it makes them more period. Same with Harmonious. Record numbers are what Disney is telling people. See the post above on TEA index. The fact that you like Enchantment vs HEA, good for you. A larger majority doesn't and they are just as entitled to their opinion. Doesn't change the fact that Disney doesn't spend money to make people happy. Their research showed Enchantment and Harmonious were not moving the needle positively.
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You’re assuming a lot of things without having access to the full picture. Correlation does not equal causation, and the TEA index could be the result of many factors. Tying it directly to Enchantment or Harmonious is just you making the connections you want from the limited data you have. I would guess their move away from Enchantment had more to do with satisfaction scores, which are probably historically indicative of future changes in guest behavior, but not necessarily an immediately measurable consequence.
 
Andrew25

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
CampbellzSoup said:
It’s very crowded. That’s why I’m not understanding when people are saying it’s slow. Is it from Dis podcast that their bookings are soft?
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Parks appear busy but it is much more manageable than a year ago. Wait times are higher because of the ridiculous lighting lane-to-standby ratios.
 
Tha Realest

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
orion54 said:
Exactly. This was part of McCarthy's plan. Their hubris believed that they can turn that cashflow spigot on anytime they wanted and it would be there. She even said it in the earnings calls from previous quarters. APs and discounts would not come back unless they needed to increase earnings.
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We need @Sirwalterraleigh to help us come up with a DEFCON like chart to know how much TWDC management is freaking out. Like, the level of crisis is reflected by certain levers. The discounts to FL residents. Then the resumption of APs. Then the “bonus” days for APs. Then the room discounts. Than the DDP. Then the removal of park reservations. Then the 4-day pass @ $99/day.

What’s the next lever? Free G+ with a package? Free day with a package?
 
L

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
EPCOT-O.G. said:
We need @Sirwalterraleigh to help us come up with a DEFCON like chart to know how much TWDC management is freaking out. Like, the level of crisis is reflected by certain levers. The discounts to FL residents. Then the resumption of APs. Then the “bonus” days for APs. Then the room discounts. Than the DDP. Then the removal of park reservations. Then the 4-day pass @ $99/day.

What’s the next lever? Free G+ with a package? Free day with a package?
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Go for some realism , some public bathrooms in Paris and London , pay to use . - ie UK and France pavilion in Epcot? .
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
EPCOT-O.G. said:
We need @Sirwalterraleigh to help us come up with a DEFCON like chart to know how much TWDC management is freaking out. Like, the level of crisis is reflected by certain levers. The discounts to FL residents. Then the resumption of APs. Then the “bonus” days for APs. Then the room discounts. Than the DDP. Then the removal of park reservations. Then the 4-day pass @ $99/day.

What’s the next lever? Free G+ with a package? Free day with a package?
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…Decon 2 is when you encourage me 🤪
 
Andrew25

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
They’re not busy at all…

The wait times on the app make it seem so…but they’ve been rigging/messing with rude capacity for now decades.

Don’t believe the hype
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That's why I said it appears busy, they are making the parks look artificially busy by pumping standby waits so the family from Denver is guilted into purchasing Genie.

Over the last few weeks, my visits to the park have included:
  • Rise of the Resistance posted at 60, the actual was 15
  • Flight of Passage posted at 70, actual 15
  • Na'Vi posted at 55, actual was a walk on
  • Dinosaur posted at 35, actual walk on
  • Soarin' posted at 25, walk on
 
Tha Realest

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
Andrew25 said:
That's why I said it appears busy, they are making the parks look artificially busy by pumping standby waits so the family from Denver is guilted into purchasing Genie.

Over the last few weeks, my visits to the park have included:
  • Rise of the Resistance posted at 60, the actual was 15
  • Flight of Passage posted at 70, actual 15
  • Na'Vi posted at 55, actual was a walk on
  • Dinosaur posted at 35, actual walk on
  • Soarin' posted at 25, walk on
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False representations to induce someone to buy something?

In some places this is called fraud.
 

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