Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[jpeden]

The "no park Disney vacation" thing is something they desperately tried to make happen when this dip started last year.

They did a huge batch of PIN codes and flexed some of their typical offers to try and jumpstart it, but metrically speaking it never moved the needle.

Depending on which forecast for 2025 comes true, there's a chance greater than zero that a resort or two might get smaller. What a time to be alive.

I mean 35% off my 1 bedroom villa at Copper Creek the second week of December 2024 when I got the PIN in January moved the needle for me (mainly because I didn’t think we would do better than that on a one-bedroom and we all know WL fills up at Christmas) but without that offer I’d be hard pressed to want to book this year.

 

[aprilibeth]

The "no park Disney vacation" thing is something they desperately tried to make happen when this dip started last year.

They did a huge batch of PIN codes and flexed some of their typical offers to try and jumpstart it, but metrically speaking it never moved the needle.

Depending on which forecast for 2025 comes true, there's a chance greater than zero that a resort or two might get smaller. What a time to be alive.

I totally agree but they need to bring back more activities that have left the resorts like the water mouse rentals and such. Pool games and movies under the stars are great. Just need more options than shopping and eating.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Those queues constantly moved and there was a sense of progress. Not like this take 20 steps, wait 3 minutes, another 20 steps, wait three minutes crap.

I agree. When we first went to WDW in l977, there was no fast pass. You just waited in line like everyone else and the lines moved all the time. But I bet we never go back to those days. It's too complicated now, IMO>

 

[Trauma]

This is what our family is doing. We love the ambiance of the different resorts and take advantage of the activities each one offers, especially as we have gotten older. The cost of the tickets to enter the theme parks is outrageous, especially since there is nothing new to see. I realize that new families have a lot to discover and that the parks are not stale for them. The World can be a fun place to enjoy as the children grow up. We had the best years vacationing there. However, we are at a different place now. So, as DVC members, we will continue our resort stays with less time in the parks.

Why not just rent out your points and stay somewhere nice with the money ?

 

[Kristamouse]

I thought we'd be there by now, but I don't think it's coming at all.

Back to TA discounts. Looks like my wife, myself, and our 6 kids will be going early next summer. 7 days in 2 standard rooms at Wilderness Lodge with 3 day tickets all around for less than $6,400.

AKL and CS are also in consideration at a much lower cost, but they've never stayed at WL and I think they'll love it.

We are a family of 8, as well! Our fav rooms are at Caribbean Beach, mainly b/c the way the 2nd couch bed folds up. We love the floor space.

 

[Laketravis]

I was just looking over the final invoice - I paid $116.25 a night for ASM and was upgraded to a "Preferred" in Calypso when we got there. I've got enough points that our next 22 round trip tickets on SW or Spirit to MCO are free. Our AP's are good until the first week of December so we are planning a few more week or two long trips back before then.

With the AP's being a sunk cost that's really not a bad deal. Being adult-only we no longer feel pressured to get in as many park attractions each day as possible and refuse to fall for Genie or LL. In fact, this last trip we bounced around several parks each day, did maybe one or two attractions in each park (or in some cases, none at all - like just looking at and taking pictures of F&G in Epcot) and did all of our meals strictly at resorts (like Cape May and Yachtsman, a $25 pizza from ASM food court, and maybe the best brunch deal at WDW - Whispering Canyon).

We avoided the high priced mixed drinks by purchasing liquor and wine from the gift shop. In the future we will probably save further by using Instacart delivery. May even add some groceries to that.

Would we still go if we didn't have AP's and didn't purchase park tickets? We might just for the "bubble" experience. It's not the only travel we do and since we both enjoy the sheer scale of WDW we'll most likely continue to do things this way.

But one thing is for sure - they will never see as much $$$ from us as they have in the past. I don't think I'm alone in contributing to attendance numbers but with substantially reduced spending and that's what's going to bite them in the butt in the long run.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

I was just looking over the final invoice - I paid $116.25 a night for ASM and was upgraded to a "Preferred" in Calypso when we got there. I've got enough points that our next 22 round trip tickets on SW or Spirit to MCO are free. Our AP's are good until the first week of December so we are planning a few more week or two long trips back before then.

With the AP's being a sunk cost that's really not a bad deal. Being adult-only we no longer feel pressured to get in as many park attractions each day as possible and refuse to fall for Genie or LL. In fact, this last trip we bounced around several parks each day, did maybe one or two attractions in each park (or in some cases, none at all - like just looking at and taking pictures of F&G in Epcot) and did all of our meals strictly at resorts (like Cape May and Yachtsman, a $25 pizza from ASM food court, and maybe the best brunch deal at WDW - Whispering Canyon).

We avoided the high priced mixed drinks by purchasing liquor and wine from the gift shop. In the future we will probably save further by using Instacart delivery. May even add some groceries to that.

Would we still go if we didn't have AP's and didn't purchase park tickets? We might just for the "bubble" experience. It's not the only travel we do and since we both enjoy the sheer scale of WDW we'll most likely continue to do things this way.

But one thing is for sure - they will never see as much $$$ from us as they have in the past. I don't think I'm alone in contributing to attendance numbers but with substantially reduced spending and that's what's going to bite them in the but in the long run.

Not nearly as many whales in the ocean as they bet on. Their refusal to course-correct shows just how devastating it could be in the short term.

 

[Tha Realest]

Not nearly as many whales in the ocean as they bet on. Their refusal to course-correct shows just how devastating it could be in the short term.

There’s a new E-ticket attraction coming this summer to the Magic Kingdom. Surely that opening alone should account for a massive uptick in attendance and bookings, given the oft-stated popularity of this IP?

 

[pixargal]

Why not just rent out your points and stay somewhere nice with the money ?

We are at a stage in life with plenty of disposable income and stay at plenty of nice places. Disney isn't our only vacation destination. Disney has been a part of my life ever since I can remember. Being a Florida resident, I have been to the parks through it's various stages, as well as mine. I have been as a preschooler back in 1971, as an elementary student, as a middle school student going with youth groups, as a high school senior at Grad Night, as a young married couple with no kids, and then with kids. Now, we are empty nesters. One day we will take our grand kids.

I was responding to the fact that we go to the resorts and have scaled back going to the theme parks. There is plenty around the WDW resort that we enjoy, however, I feel like the value for the price to get into the parks isn't there, for us. I actually use a lot of my DVC points to stay during the RunDisney events now. Like I said, it's a different way of visiting for this time of my life

 

[Tha Realest]

We are at a stage in life with plenty of disposable income and stay at plenty of nice places. Disney isn't our only vacation destination. Disney has been a part of my life ever since I can remember. Being a Florida resident, I have been to the parks through it's various stages, as well as mine. I have been as a preschooler back in 1971, as an elementary student, as a middle school student going with youth groups, as a high school senior at Grad Night, as a young married couple with no kids, and then with kids. Now, we are empty nesters. One day we will take our grand kids.

I was responding to the fact that we go to the resorts and have scaled back going to the theme parks. There is plenty around the WDW resort that we enjoy, however, I feel like the value for the price to get into the parks isn't there, for us. I actually use a lot of my DVC points to stay during the RunDisney events now. Like I said, it's a different way of visiting for this time of my life

I really appreciate your post, experiences, and perspective. It is really telling that someone of your love of Disney - and a DVC owner and FL resident to boot - is eschewing going to the Parks despite ease of travel, lodgings, and comparatively cheap tickets/offerings (FL AP and or FL resident promotions).

 

[Lilofan]

We are at a stage in life with plenty of disposable income and stay at plenty of nice places. Disney isn't our only vacation destination. Disney has been a part of my life ever since I can remember. Being a Florida resident, I have been to the parks through it's various stages, as well as mine. I have been as a preschooler back in 1971, as an elementary student, as a middle school student going with youth groups, as a high school senior at Grad Night, as a young married couple with no kids, and then with kids. Now, we are empty nesters. One day we will take our grand kids.

I was responding to the fact that we go to the resorts and have scaled back going to the theme parks. There is plenty around the WDW resort that we enjoy, however, I feel like the value for the price to get into the parks isn't there, for us. I actually use a lot of my DVC points to stay during the RunDisney events now. Like I said, it's a different way of visiting for this time of my life

Congrats to you and enjoy in good health to " blow that dough!". Enjoy since you can't take it with you when it is that time.

 

[BrianLo]

The "no park Disney vacation" thing is something they desperately tried to make happen when this dip started last year.

They did a huge batch of PIN codes and flexed some of their typical offers to try and jumpstart it, but metrically speaking it never moved the needle.

Depending on which forecast for 2025 comes true, there's a chance greater than zero that a resort or two might get smaller. What a time to be alive.

Not to name names (though feel free to), what class of resorts is having trouble filling?

If it’s deluxe (or even a moderate) I wonder if that leads to another grand Floridian DVC maneuver.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Truly, honestly, in all sincerity feel badly for anyone who does that these days that their horizons are so narrow.

The *only* thing the WDW hotels have in their favor at this point is their proximity to the parks. At the price they charge for rooms, you could practically be waited on hand and foot elsewhere.

I know this is a debate that will never be resolved, but I disagree on the pricing. A "nice but nothing special" hotel room in many major cities will run upwards of $400. A "nice but nothing special" hotel room by a nice beach is easily $600+. And no one is waiting on you there.

Honestly, to truly be "waited on hand and foot", I would say you either have to: 1.) Travel abroad 2.) Be so wealthy that you hire attendants as part of your travel experience or 3.) Seek out niche experiences, like bed and breakfasts with exceptionally service oriented owners. I think that's partially a cultural thing in the US. Honestly, being waited on beyond, say, having an actual waiter at a restaurant kinda weirds me out. People I don't know hovering around for the sole purpose of paying attention to me sends me into introvert panic mode, lol. At some of the very nicest hotels in the US, a standard room means they will politely get you something if you contact them and ask for it, but the rest of the time they will take pains to stay out of your way (I think at some very nice hotels the staff literally have to duck into a doorway and hide if they see a guest walking by).

Regarding value of Disney resorts - I think it varies greatly. I think the moderates are actually an extremely good value. You get so much ambience, such elaborate theming, so many onsite recreation options, awesome cafeterias, and they're often less than the price of a Hilton in NYC or DC. There are a couple of obnoxious features - the exterior hotel doors and the "curtains as bathroom doors", but those aren't deal breakers. I haven't stayed at a value but the theming in those looks incredible. I think the deluxes are priced ridiculously with the exception of AK and FW. At least the post Covid rates were, they seem to be coming down a bit now. French Quarter at around $300 a night and Polynesian at around $1200 makes zero sense to me (if anyone is reading this and it made sense to you, more power to you, not a criticism). Polynesian is great but to me it just isn't four times nicer than French Quarter. The "upgrades" in amenities are honestly pretty minimal to my mind, and I actually think the lack of cafeterias is a downgrade.

I don't think I would do a resort only vacation at this point, as the resorts don't offer any kind of shows and pool hopping isn't an option. Ironically, I don't think I'd get my fill of Disney theming at Disney resorts only either. But I do think people traveling across various resorts and trying out different activities would find a lot to do. Carriage rides, pony rides, crafts, unique restaurants, jazz bars, shopping, places to watch the water parade right up close, that type of thing.

 

[Laketravis]

I know this is a debate that will never be resolved, but I disagree on the pricing. A "nice but nothing special" hotel room in many major cities will run upwards of $400. A "nice but nothing special" hotel room by a nice beach is easily $600+. And no one is waiting on you there.

Honestly, to truly be "waited on hand and foot", I would say you either have to: 1.) Travel abroad 2.) Be so wealthy that you hire attendants as part of your travel experience or 3.) Seek out niche experiences, like bed and breakfasts with exceptionally service oriented owners. I think that's partially a cultural thing in the US. Honestly, being waited on beyond, say, having an actual waiter at a restaurant kinda weirds me out. People I don't know hovering around for the sole purpose of paying attention to me sends me into introvert panic mode, lol. At some of the very nicest hotels in the US, a standard room means they will politely get you something if you contact them and ask for it, but the rest of the time they will take pains to stay out of your way (I think at some very nice hotels the staff literally have to duck into a doorway and hide if they see a guest walking by).

Regarding value of Disney resorts - I think it varies greatly. I think the moderates are actually an extremely good value. You get so much ambience, such elaborate theming, so many onsite recreation options, awesome cafeterias, and they're often less than the price of a Hilton in NYC or DC. There are a couple of obnoxious features - the exterior hotel doors and the "curtains as bathroom doors", but those aren't deal breakers. I haven't stayed at a value but the theming in those looks incredible. I think the deluxes are priced ridiculously with the exception of AK and FW. At least the post Covid rates were, they seem to be coming down a bit now. French Quarter at around $300 a night and Polynesian at around $1200 makes zero sense to me (if anyone is reading this and it made sense to you, more power to you, not a criticism). Polynesian is great but to me it just isn't four times nicer than French Quarter. The "upgrades" in amenities are honestly pretty minimal to my mind, and I actually think the lack of cafeterias is a downgrade.

I don't think I would do a resort only vacation at this point, as the resorts don't offer any kind of shows and pool hopping isn't an option. Ironically, I don't think I'd get my fill of Disney theming at Disney resorts only either. But I do think people traveling across various resorts and trying out different activities would find a lot to do. Carriage rides, pony rides, crafts, unique restaurants, jazz bars, shopping, places to watch the water parade right up close, that type of thing.

Yup. I think the All Star values and PoP are a good deal when discounted - the rooms are fine, the pools are fine, the food courts are fine, the transportation options are fine. Moving up to moderates, CSR used to be my go-to until they went over $200 a night. Deluxe? I haven't stayed in a deluxe since 2010 and am totally perplexed as to who the hell is paying those outrageous rates. In fact we just spent considerable time at Boardwalk/YC/BC and all three monorail deluxe resorts this week and felt like they've lost much of the luster they had in the past.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Yeah… it’s amazing how many people equate cruises to a bunch of blue hairs sleeping all day on the lido deck or getting robbed by the warmed armed bandit…

Which is less of a thing on every new ship for 30-40 years

Darn, I was looking forward to that!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Darn, I was looking forward to that!

…it’s still allowed

And they might even have an Engelbert Humperdinck or Bert Baccarat impersonator in the Schooner Bar for you

 

[Grimley1968]

We are at a stage in life with plenty of disposable income and stay at plenty of nice places. Disney isn't our only vacation destination. Disney has been a part of my life ever since I can remember. Being a Florida resident, I have been to the parks through it's various stages, as well as mine. I have been as a preschooler back in 1971, as an elementary student, as a middle school student going with youth groups, as a high school senior at Grad Night, as a young married couple with no kids, and then with kids. Now, we are empty nesters. One day we will take our grand kids.

I was responding to the fact that we go to the resorts and have scaled back going to the theme parks. There is plenty around the WDW resort that we enjoy, however, I feel like the value for the price to get into the parks isn't there, for us. I actually use a lot of my DVC points to stay during the RunDisney events now. Like I said, it's a different way of visiting for this time of my life

Based on your age references, I'd estimate that you are about my age, with a similar long history of WDW visits as mine. Except for not owning DVC, my wife and I (also empty nesters now), also have similar feelings about going to the parks, while still enjoying the resorts to some degree. For us, though, when we're in the area we most likely will go to one of the resort restaurants we like. At least partially because we don't own DVC, we prefer being in the Cocoa Beach area for lodging if possible, though.

That nostalgia tug, though, is a strong one.

 

[Jrb1979]

I know this is a debate that will never be resolved, but I disagree on the pricing. A "nice but nothing special" hotel room in many major cities will run upwards of $400. A "nice but nothing special" hotel room by a nice beach is easily $600+. And no one is waiting on you there.

Honestly, to truly be "waited on hand and foot", I would say you either have to: 1.) Travel abroad 2.) Be so wealthy that you hire attendants as part of your travel experience or 3.) Seek out niche experiences, like bed and breakfasts with exceptionally service oriented owners. I think that's partially a cultural thing in the US. Honestly, being waited on beyond, say, having an actual waiter at a restaurant kinda weirds me out. People I don't know hovering around for the sole purpose of paying attention to me sends me into introvert panic mode, lol. At some of the very nicest hotels in the US, a standard room means they will politely get you something if you contact them and ask for it, but the rest of the time they will take pains to stay out of your way (I think at some very nice hotels the staff literally have to duck into a doorway and hide if they see a guest walking by).

Regarding value of Disney resorts - I think it varies greatly. I think the moderates are actually an extremely good value. You get so much ambience, such elaborate theming, so many onsite recreation options, awesome cafeterias, and they're often less than the price of a Hilton in NYC or DC. There are a couple of obnoxious features - the exterior hotel doors and the "curtains as bathroom doors", but those aren't deal breakers. I haven't stayed at a value but the theming in those looks incredible. I think the deluxes are priced ridiculously with the exception of AK and FW. At least the post Covid rates were, they seem to be coming down a bit now. French Quarter at around $300 a night and Polynesian at around $1200 makes zero sense to me (if anyone is reading this and it made sense to you, more power to you, not a criticism). Polynesian is great but to me it just isn't four times nicer than French Quarter. The "upgrades" in amenities are honestly pretty minimal to my mind, and I actually think the lack of cafeterias is a downgrade.

I don't think I would do a resort only vacation at this point, as the resorts don't offer any kind of shows and pool hopping isn't an option. Ironically, I don't think I'd get my fill of Disney theming at Disney resorts only either. But I do think people traveling across various resorts and trying out different activities would find a lot to do. Carriage rides, pony rides, crafts, unique restaurants, jazz bars, shopping, places to watch the water parade right up close, that type of thing.

I agree with some of what you are saying. Where I disagree is equating a Disney resort with a high end hotel in a major city. IMO Disney is not a luxury vacation spot. For the prices they charge and for what you get if you aren't going to the parks, you're much better off going somewhere else.

My wife, child and I looked at Carribean Beach resort for a stay in October but decided on Clearwater instead. A nice resort is half the price for a week with similar amenities.

 

[CastAStone]

I don’t think Disney is upset when you take a no parks vacation.

It’s more or less an open secret that WDW’s hotels generate more operating income than the parks do.

And if you think of WDW as a hotel and timeshare business leveraging a theme park destination to drive hotel room and timeshare sales, a lot of their other business decisions make a lot more sense.

If your reaction to the park changes is that you’re going to go to Florida, stay in a WDW property of some sort, and not go to the parks, that’s still a win for them.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

Not to name names (though feel free to), what class of resorts is having trouble filling?

There are entire buildings that have been closed off for months at both Value and Moderate properties.

I've heard of earlier plans to DVC-ize portions of 2 mods, but that was decided against.

Several values are soft as well, but their layouts and DVC needs don't allow for buildings being taken offline.