@lentesta has stated that genie+ is not the main problem - DAS is just as much of an issue in causing standby to not move
I also believe he said that the company believes the abuse of DAS is because people are doing everything they can to avoid paying for G+ - therefore the root problem is still G+.
They were all over DHS, MK, and Epcot and only started leaving on 2/12. My flight home was loaded with groups of them.Just got back last night and, well, they already indicated attendance is down at WDW but I thought I'd add a few observations.
It "felt" crowded. We were coming off the tail end of the national cheerleading competitions but to be honest I didn't see as many groups of cheerleaders as I had anticipated - it certainly wasn't overwhelming.
I didn't even bother with G+ or LL. Rather I was flexible with when I wanted to be in the park and was able to take advantage of significantly reduced wait times. (Walked onto ROTR with in the last hour before closing). The only time I went to the MK was for an after-hours party, in which it was sadly the only time you can actually enjoy experiencing attractions at the park. (Make it so miserable, you have to pay extra to have a good experience)Genie+, LL, and Virtual Queues are a joke. Seriously. They are hands down without a doubt in my mind the core problem.
Their needless impact on Standby lines is quite visible. Many families I spoke with grudgingly forked over the $$$'s and weren't happy with the results. Tron and Guardians VQ's were often gone within 30 seconds - even when I kept hitting refresh at exactly 7am for Guardians, I got an estimated callback time of 480 minutes or more - often 3 or 4pm, running into the afternoon (1pm) queue.
Did Guardians twice via Virtual Queue and both times we waited in line almost exactly 50 minutes. It seemed for every 50 VQ's they let thru, they let 100 LL's thru. I haven't run the calculations yet to determine if they are selling a proportionate amount of LL's so that the VQ's are almost a consistent 50 minute wait time, but I do know that not having a regular (and unpredictable) standby line makes it easy for them to play the math.
Carefully controlled park reservations and G+ sales will ensure that the parks always "feel" crowded even if there are fewer people going. The goal is no longer filling the park, but creating the conditions to extract as much revenue per guest as possible.Frequent downtime put enormous pressure on other attractions in all parks. If attendance is truly down (and I have no doubt that's the case), wait times are in for a world of hurt when more people are packed into the parks.
EPCOT was packed, yet the Festival Kiosks were dead. During peak afternoon there were little to no lines at even the popular Kiosks. There were no lines at all after 5PM. In regards to TS restaurants, I didn't make any ADRS until either day of or 2 days prior. It was amazing to see how availability magically opened up for so many places.Dining - most table serve we went to had more tables empty than occupied and that only seemed to increase the higher up the signature chain we went. I didn't see a single guest in any park gnawing on an $8 Mickey pretzel the entire time I was there.
Deluxe Resorts (non-DVC) were noticeably empty. Values were packed with the cheerleader groups.Resorts - lots of empty rooms. Not that I personally checked but derived that from conversations with several CM's onsite.
Generally I observed that posted wait times were about 15-25% longer than the actual wait. I don't think there is a greater way to feel miserable than having to wait for a MK or DHS Attraction between 9AM and 3PM.It was a disappointing week. Even with the experience we have storm trooping the parks the yield was minimal. Several times we went into MK and just left after an hour or so because Standby times were ridiculous. Oh, and the posted wait times in many cases now seemed to be a bit conservative - I was also running Tour Plans Line WDW app on my phone and it's "Expected Wait Times" were way off. For example, often ROTR would have a posted wait time of 75 minutes and Lines was reporting an expected wait time of 20. We would get in the line and the wait was more like the posted time.
It's terrible for guest retention. You've got to wonder if they realize that and what their end goal is. Push away AP holders, push away first time guests, push away returning guests. I guess they figure for every one guest that they push away 4 more will take their place.I feel sorry for the many families we met who were struggling with the logistics and costs of simply being able to do stuff. Their level of frustration was readily apparent.
I've heard the same. A lot of DAS users didn't use it before cause FP+ worked for them.I've heard a handful of stories from DAS users themselves that they would not have used DAS if G+ didn't cost so much (or anything at all). I have every reason to believe they weren't abusing the system.
I've heard the same. A lot of DAS users didn't use it before cause FP+ worked for them.
I'm not so sure there really is a fix for it. There isn't enough capacity to change much.
Disney does extensive surveying of guests. However the surveys can be crafted in a way to minimize negative responses and essentially tell the company what it wants to hear.I am just wondering if those who are having a difficult time in the parks with G+, price, etc. are sending your feedback directly to the company. Venting here and sharing your stories here are helpful, and I am sure the company has “spies” here, but sending your feedback directly to them may be more effective? Again, just wondering.
I am a long time reader here, but rarely post, hence why I am a “new member”
Disney knows, but no executive has the gut to cut a service that generates revenue.I am just wondering if those who are having a difficult time in the parks with G+, price, etc. are sending your feedback directly to the company. Venting here and sharing your stories here are helpful, and I am sure the company has “spies” here, but sending your feedback directly to them may be more effective? Again, just wondering.
I am a long time reader here, but rarely post, hence why I am a “new member”
That's partially it. I do think they don't know how to fix it. While they announced advanced booking, they have since not said anything. My guess is they know they can't go back something like FP+ as it didn't work.Disney knows, but no executive has the gut to cut a service that generates revenue.
No they can’t go back to FP+ because on the $$$$ genie makes.That's partially it. I do think they don't know how to fix it. While they announced advanced booking, they have since not said anything. My guess is they know they can't go back something like FP+ as it didn't work.
I was there 2/8-2/14.
They were all over DHS, MK, and Epcot and only started leaving on 2/12. My flight home was loaded with groups of them.
I didn't even bother with G+ or LL. Rather I was flexible with when I wanted to be in the park and was able to take advantage of significantly reduced wait times. (Walked onto ROTR with in the last hour before closing). The only time I went to the MK was for an after-hours party, in which it was sadly the only time you can actually enjoy experiencing attractions at the park. (Make it so miserable, you have to pay extra to have a good experience)
For the last several visits I have found myself spending less time in the parks (except for EPCOT) because of the ridiculous wait times and more time at the resort.
It was amazing to see the parks full of people not actually doing anything. The G+ effect has created this phenomenon where guests are just mulling about not sure of what to do, either because wait times exceed their tolerance to stand in line or because they are all out of other things to do. I especially feel for the families with young ones who planned on doing a whole day at the park. The only way you can do that now without going insane is by paying for G+ and ILL.
Carefully controlled park reservations and G+ sales will ensure that the parks always "feel" crowded even if there are fewer people going. The goal is no longer filling the park, but creating the conditions to extract as much revenue per guest as possible.
EPCOT was packed, yet the Festival Kiosks were dead. During peak afternoon there were little to no lines at even the popular Kiosks. There were no lines at all after 5PM. In regards to TS restaurants, I didn't make any ADRS until either day of or 2 days prior. It was amazing to see how availability magically opened up for so many places.
Deluxe Resorts (non-DVC) were noticeably empty. Values were packed with the cheerleader groups.
Generally I observed that posted wait times were about 15-25% longer than the actual wait. I don't think there is a greater way to feel miserable than having to wait for a MK or DHS Attraction between 9AM and 3PM.
It's terrible for guest retention. You've got to wonder if they realize that and what their end goal is. Push away AP holders, push away first time guests, push away returning guests. I guess they figure for every one guest that they push away 4 more will take their place.
I have bad news... September is busy, and arguably has become one of the busier periods now. For the past few years it's been just as busy as any other time frame. Not to mention that Not So Scary inflates waits on non-party nights now, so you either take a hit on visiting any empty MK with no fireworks, or visit MK with 1.5-2 days worth of guests.Prior to last week we were there the second week of December and the experience was somewhat the same although we accomplished slightly more. We are going to wait until the "historically" low crowd month of September and spend a couple more weeks there to see if it improves. May return again later in November before making the final call about waiting a few years after that.
I have bad news... September is busy, and arguably has become one of the busier periods now. For the past few years it's been just as busy as any other time frame. Not to mention that Not So Scary inflates waits on non-party nights now, so you either take a hit on visiting any empty MK with no fireworks, or visit MK with 1.5-2 days worth of guests.
Universal is somewhat manageable, but USF turns into chaos after 3PM when APs descend for HHN nights and they start shutting down sections of the park.
It sounds like there is some momentum internally to re-incentivize onsite bookings with additional inclusions.
Without specifics, I wouldn't be surprised if some form of DME and maybe, just maybe, "free" Genie+ with certain tiers of hotel package stays were in play. It's one of the few levers they have available that could take effect prior to EU's opening.
Epic will definitely help WDW a bit as it'll be a win for the entire region... except for the part where guests drop a day at a WDW park for Universal. Free Genie+ might convince guests to limit their visit to Universal for just a day.It sounds like there is some momentum internally to re-incentivize onsite bookings with additional inclusions.
Without specifics, I wouldn't be surprised if some form of DME and maybe, just maybe, "free" Genie+ with certain tiers of hotel package stays were in play. It's one of the few levers they have available that could take effect prior to EU's opening.
Epic will definitely help WDW a bit as it'll be a win for the entire region... except for the part where guests drop a day at a WDW park for Universal. Free Genie+ might convince guests to limit their visit to Universal for just a day.
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