Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
That investment isn't coming til closer to the end of the decade. IMO that's too late, especially if Epic Universe is a major success. The only they can't accelerate right now is cause streaming keeps losing money.
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Is attendance really down at WDW this or…
- Thread starter coachb
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JD80
Well-Known Member
Did "streaming keeps losing money" prevent Disney from investing in Epic, Cruise Ships or International Park Expansions?
You take the posting of random people on this message board too seriously.
Disney has 3 new Wish ships by 2025. That looks like an investment.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
That doesn't help Central Florida who relies on tourism.
Nevermore525
Well-Known Member
Disney parks attendance across the domestic parts had no reported difference between Q1 FY24, and Q1 FY23.
So where WDW was down some unknown percentage, DLR made up for that difference for Q1 24 vs Q1 23.
Domestic Hotel occupancy at 85% vs 88% YoY comparison of the quarters. In terms of booked room nights that’s 2,164,950 (Q1 FY24) booked nights vs 2,217,600 (Q1 FY23), or about a 2% drop in cash booked rooms YoY.
So where WDW was down some unknown percentage, DLR made up for that difference for Q1 24 vs Q1 23.
Domestic Hotel occupancy at 85% vs 88% YoY comparison of the quarters. In terms of booked room nights that’s 2,164,950 (Q1 FY24) booked nights vs 2,217,600 (Q1 FY23), or about a 2% drop in cash booked rooms YoY.
Not all guests just drive to the port or take transport from MCO to the ship and or go straight to MCO to catch a flight. ( aka - spend dollars at UO/WDW/SW and overall CFL areas before or after cruise ). I disagree, Yes it will help tourism.
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PREMiERdrum
Well-Known Member
One thing to consider - In factors currently driving the decline at WDW, attendance is a trailing indicator. There are tools available to help juice that gap a bit, but they'll need to start a fundamental shift to their pricing structure *and* likely invest in both new, marketable assets and restored benefits and services before those changes can start to move the needed attendance-wise.
I think we'll be seeing something out of them fairly soon.
I think we'll be seeing something out of them fairly soon.
JD80
Well-Known Member
I agree. I personally think we'll be seeing a spend on Entertainment and those guest services perks - essentially non cap-ex investments in the short term.
Pricing structure changes for sure because the top dollar is way too high for a broader audience, but even if it doesn't come down low enough for "everyone" (however you define everyone), you need to increase the perceived value of both the tickets you are buying and the hotel you are staying at.
Some random though that came my head, DCL is currently very successful. When you book a cruise it's 1 price based on dates you and see a long list of things that are "included". Currently booking WDW trips hotel rates, tickets, dining and entertainment are decoupled So you have to pick and choose so you see ticket costs, you see hotel costs per night, you see hoppers etc. Discounts being offered are part are only specifically to each bucket (mostly hotels)
I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't start seeing 1 price packages like DCL but for Parks: X-Night stays for $6000 that include a, b, c..
This way you see one price and the public has no idea if you discount tickets by 50% or the hotel by 50% to harm the posted ticket/hotel rates on the website. They've done this a bit before, I wonder if that's how they attempt to reduce top level costs but protecting the integrity of their hotel/ticket prices.
el_super
Well-Known Member
This thread has been around for 8 months now,. If attendance declines were going to precipitate a fundamental shift in pricing, it would have already happened. Considering how high revenues continue to be, I think they're generally comfortable with where the pricing is right now.
On the other hand, you're right about the need to add more. I think prices will remain high for the foreseeable future, but the only way to keep people paying the higher prices is to add more content.
Personally I really like this idea, but it goes against the idea of making the parks "more accessible" by breaking costs down. Some might see the current situation as "nickel-and diming" people by charging for additional perks, where for some, the barebones admission is all they can afford and the only way they can buy into the experience. Disney wants balance, even if the easier option for those that can afford it would be to pay one price for the elevated service altogether.
el_super
Well-Known Member
If attendance was down by just 1%, it would still be down, but the change in crowds would be hardly noticeable.
Nevermore525
Well-Known Member
Yep just from a resorts perspective YoY for the quarter was down less than 2% and revenues differed by approximately $15M. Almost a rounding error for Disney.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
They’ve always competed with other destinations but it used to be a choice of WDW vs Yellowstone, or WDW vs a trip to Chicago… now it’s WDW vs a trip to London, or WDW vs a cruise in Norway. At their current price point the competition for our vacation dollars is in a different league.
When a trip cost $3k (flight, hotel, and tickets) it was an easy choice, now that that same trip is $6k it’s competing with a lot of amazing vacation destinations.
I’ve said the same, even a 10% drop likely wouldn’t be noticeable to most guests because Disney would also schedule fewer CMs, run less ride vehicles, reduce park hours, etc, the lines would be the same. At most you’d notice a little extra space in the walkways.
MagicHappens1971
Well-Known Member
It is highly unlikely that she would be at Disneyland.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
You missed out on the joke.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
Thank you Bob for putting the little guy first, what a mensch!
Spin like that shouldn't be wasted on a message board
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SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
So WDW is imitating the business model of Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, and Ryanair. Companies all known for their legendary standards of excellence and customer service
Laketravis
Well-Known Member
Just got back last night and, well, they already indicated attendance is down at WDW but I thought I'd add a few observations.
It "felt" crowded. We were coming off the tail end of the national cheerleading competitions but to be honest I didn't see as many groups of cheerleaders as I had anticipated - it certainly wasn't overwhelming.
Genie+, LL, and Virtual Queues are a joke. Seriously. They are hands down without a doubt in my mind the core problem.
Their needless impact on Standby lines is quite visible. Many families I spoke with grudgingly forked over the $$$'s and weren't happy with the results. Tron and Guardians VQ's were often gone within 30 seconds - even when I kept hitting refresh at exactly 7am for Guardians, I got an estimated callback time of 480 minutes or more - often 3 or 4pm, running into the afternoon (1pm) queue.
Did Guardians twice via Virtual Queue and both times we waited in line almost exactly 50 minutes. It seemed for every 50 VQ's they let thru, they let 100 LL's thru. I haven't run the calculations yet to determine if they are selling a proportionate amount of LL's so that the VQ's are almost a consistent 50 minute wait time, but I do know that not having a regular (and unpredictable) standby line makes it easy for them to play the math.
Frequent downtime put enormous pressure on other attractions in all parks. If attendance is truly down (and I have no doubt that's the case), wait times are in for a world of hurt when more people are packed into the parks.
Dining - most table serve we went to had more tables empty than occupied and that only seemed to increase the higher up the signature chain we went. I didn't see a single guest in any park gnawing on an $8 Mickey pretzel the entire time I was there.
Resorts - lots of empty rooms. Not that I personally checked but derived that from conversations with several CM's onsite.
It was a disappointing week. Even with the experience we have storm trooping the parks the yield was minimal. Several times we went into MK and just left after an hour or so because Standby times were ridiculous. Oh, and the posted wait times in many cases now seemed to be a bit conservative - I was also running Tour Plans Line WDW app on my phone and it's "Expected Wait Times" were way off. For example, often ROTR would have a posted wait time of 75 minutes and Lines was reporting an expected wait time of 20. We would get in the line and the wait was more like the posted time.
I feel sorry for the many families we met who were struggling with the logistics and costs of simply being able to do stuff. Their level of frustration was readily apparent.
It "felt" crowded. We were coming off the tail end of the national cheerleading competitions but to be honest I didn't see as many groups of cheerleaders as I had anticipated - it certainly wasn't overwhelming.
Genie+, LL, and Virtual Queues are a joke. Seriously. They are hands down without a doubt in my mind the core problem.
Their needless impact on Standby lines is quite visible. Many families I spoke with grudgingly forked over the $$$'s and weren't happy with the results. Tron and Guardians VQ's were often gone within 30 seconds - even when I kept hitting refresh at exactly 7am for Guardians, I got an estimated callback time of 480 minutes or more - often 3 or 4pm, running into the afternoon (1pm) queue.
Did Guardians twice via Virtual Queue and both times we waited in line almost exactly 50 minutes. It seemed for every 50 VQ's they let thru, they let 100 LL's thru. I haven't run the calculations yet to determine if they are selling a proportionate amount of LL's so that the VQ's are almost a consistent 50 minute wait time, but I do know that not having a regular (and unpredictable) standby line makes it easy for them to play the math.
Frequent downtime put enormous pressure on other attractions in all parks. If attendance is truly down (and I have no doubt that's the case), wait times are in for a world of hurt when more people are packed into the parks.
Dining - most table serve we went to had more tables empty than occupied and that only seemed to increase the higher up the signature chain we went. I didn't see a single guest in any park gnawing on an $8 Mickey pretzel the entire time I was there.
Resorts - lots of empty rooms. Not that I personally checked but derived that from conversations with several CM's onsite.
It was a disappointing week. Even with the experience we have storm trooping the parks the yield was minimal. Several times we went into MK and just left after an hour or so because Standby times were ridiculous. Oh, and the posted wait times in many cases now seemed to be a bit conservative - I was also running Tour Plans Line WDW app on my phone and it's "Expected Wait Times" were way off. For example, often ROTR would have a posted wait time of 75 minutes and Lines was reporting an expected wait time of 20. We would get in the line and the wait was more like the posted time.
I feel sorry for the many families we met who were struggling with the logistics and costs of simply being able to do stuff. Their level of frustration was readily apparent.
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Splash4eva
Well-Known Member
It may not be a non zero number but its a number that is not moving any needles at Disney…
RoadiJeff
Well-Known Member
30 seconds? The 7:00am VQ for TRON is long gone by then. There's another thread on the forum that posts how fast the daily VQ for TRON fills up. Yesterday, I believe 7:00am was filled in less than 4 seconds. You have to go by the atomic time clock (hint), not your phone or other device. I was able to get BG #1 both times for TRON and GotG by doing a few tricks that I learned during the months before we visited WDW last October.
Final Day 333 Stats (2/16):
7am: 3.8 secs
1pm: 23.4 secs
Anyway, when we were there last fall I thought the crowds were not as bad as when I was there in 2022. I am not an expert at stacking Genie+ reservations or some of the other things that regular park goers do. We enjoyed it anyway, more so than Universal, which seemed to us like they are focused on fast, spinning, motion sickness rides. That's not for me at my age, maybe 40 years ago it was.
I can see how Genie+, ILL, VQ, etc., can be overwhelming and confusing to guests who do not visit WDW on a regular basis. People go on vacation to relax and have fun without having to look at an app on their phone throughout the day if they want to avoid standing in long lines. Disney doesn't make that easy to do.
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Laketravis
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I check both those posts often - couldn't remember the exact times for each day when I posted so felt it accurate to say "within 30 seconds". Regardless, a shot at an attraction at 7 in the morning that only lasts for a few seconds is ridiculous. Often, our callback times tended to conflict with our ADR's, which is another shortcoming as it doesn't take those into account. Granted that would be a complicated algorithm but not impossible.
I was a beta tester for FP+ and even though I felt it had several drawbacks I knew it would eventually develop into being monetized. The current structure is probably the worst outcome I could have ever imagined.