Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[JD80]

This summer will be brutal with attendance.

 

[Lilofan]

This summer will be brutal with attendance.

So Iger in recent Wed quarterly earnings report to Wall Street - $2.1B in profits in parks and resorts , up 35% from last year.

 

[Jrb1979]

So Iger in recent Wed quarterly earnings report to Wall Street - $2.1B in profits in parks and resorts , up 35% from last year.

How much is that due to price increases and Genie+ price?

He also said attendance was down.

 

[JD80]

So Iger in recent Wed quarterly earnings report to Wall Street - $2.1B in profits in parks and resorts , up 35% from last year.

DCL and DL and international parks are holding up decreases at WDW.

From the reports:

• A decrease at Walt Disney World Resort reflecting a modest decrease in revenues and higher costs. These impacts were due to:
  • Lower volumes due to decreases in attendance and occupied room nights, both of which reflected the comparison to the 50th anniversary celebration in the prior-year quarter
  • Higher costs due to inflation, partially offset by cost saving initiatives and lower depreciation
  • Increased guest spending due to higher average ticket prices, partially offset by lower average daily room rates

Quarter to quarter numbers:

 

[JD80]

How much is that due to price increases and Genie+ price?

You keep writing this across multiple threads like it's supposed to mean something. Price increases are normal and are expected across any business based on demand and inflation. TWDC has increased costs too much at WDW so that revenue is decreasing so they have to find a solution in the short and medium term. It'll probably come in the form of lots of package deals to hide ticket/hotel cost decreases and only marginal price increases over time to let inflation catch up to pricing.

 

[John park hopper]

If attendance is down and profits are up-- causes
1. cut maintenance costs
2. cut staff
3. cut food costs --smaller portions, lower food quality
4. raise prices
5. reduce park hours
6, build DVC instant cash
All of the above

 

[Lilofan]

DCL and DL and international parks are holding up decreases at WDW.

From the reports:


Quarter to quarter numbers:
View attachment 767374

And if the Chiefs win the Super Bowl and Travis is the MVP watch out DL with increased attendance! When he's on the MVP parade float the day after the SB, you know who will be there the most popular singer on the planet , Taylor Swift.

 

[Jrb1979]

You keep writing this across multiple threads like it's supposed to mean something. Price increases are normal and are expected across any business based on demand and inflation. TWDC has increased costs too much at WDW so that revenue is decreasing so they have to find a solution in the short and medium term. It'll probably come in the form of lots of package deals to hide ticket/hotel cost decreases and only marginal price increases over time to let inflation catch up to pricing.

Bolded is the biggest problem. From the earnings report it doesn't look like much is coming to change that anytime soon.

 

[Jrb1979]

And if the Chiefs win the Super Bowl and Travis is the MVP watch out DL with increased attendance! When he's on the MVP parade float you know who will be there the most popular singer on the planet , Taylor Swift.

For one day it could boost attendance. She is a draw. Look at all the people that went to see her instead of going to WDW last summer.

 

[LSLS]

Thread needs a title change. There was a noticeable lull in the crowds last summer when this thread was created that lasted a few months, but things have picked back up. Throughout the entirety of January, the parks were quite busy.

Last YEAR. The call for Q1 (so through December) mentions Disney World not only had a decrease in attendance and hotel stays, but they had a decrease in revenue. That's huge. A great question would be to ask why are you seeing these decreases in attendance and yet seems seem more crowded? Or how do the wait times compare to years past (both posted and actual)?

 

[GimpYancIent]

You can ignore lack of new rides, lack of capacity, lack of general entertainment because in spite of all of that, people will still go, and most likely have a good time.

What is preventing people from going? Cost.

It's not even the hotel rooms, because people can still find offsite accommodations or even find a deal from Disney off of rack rate. $200-$300 is not bad for a moderate when I sometimes can't find a Hampton Inn in a mid-west state for less than $150 a night.

Disney offering hotel discounts is not going to get people to pull the trigger.

The Dining Plan - because it forces you to buy hoppers or even upgrade it for a Moderate/Value booking - is not going to entice people to pull the trigger.

The cost of a hotel is basically steady over the last 5 years in context of your whole trip. Even if your $120 a night value from 5 years ago is now $220 - for a 5 night stay that's only an extra $500. That's not a lot, and many people can swallow that.

The biggest - BIGGEST - factor in the cost of a WDW vacation is the price of tickets. For a family of 4 or 5 to get a ticket package to go to each park once is going to run them $2000 to $3000 depending on the time of year. JUST the tickets! Compared to 5 years ago, a 4 ticket package is +$1600. Remember when the price of a ticket was cheap going from 5 to 6 tickets? or 6 to 7?

Hotel discounts are more valuable the less people you have in the room. Ticket deals offer more value the more people in your family. You will know when Disney gets desperate when they start offering general ticket deals. That 50% off kid tickets (with the Dining Plan) was a trial balloon.

I suspect we'll see some hotel/ticket packages where they can hide the de-valuing of park admission if all these hotel discounts don't get the job done.

It's not just pricing and cost. Other vacation / trip / experience options available, entertainment trends and value of the experience. An equation that needs to be rethought and the Disney powers that be have thus far been unable to do.

 

[CntrlFlPete]

The cost of a hotel is basically steady over the last 5 years in context of your whole trip. Even if your $120 a night value from 5 years ago is now $220 - for a 5 night stay that's only an extra $500. That's not a lot, and many people can swallow that.

just wanted to address this one part. I think an analysis such as this ignores what is taken away with certain price increases. For out of town guest, the removal of free transportation to/from the resort is a big price increase that is not shown in the change of rack rates.

Same with AP's, the price went up, but things like photo pass, water parks -- I mean items were removed that will now cost more if one wants any of the 'extras'.

Thread needs a title change. There was a noticeable lull in the crowds last summer when this thread was created that lasted a few months, but things have picked back up. Throughout the entirety of January, the parks were quite busy.

I think the big 'down' part has been more w/ hotel bookings. The parks often feel busy, but I bet it is harder to get decent guest spend numbers (save for price increases) -- heck, I think the price of a soda has gone up around six times since 2021.

I have noticed more adds for FL resident AP's than I have noticed in the past few years.

 

[Lilofan]

For one day it could boost attendance. She is a draw. Look at all the people that went to see her instead of going to WDW last summer.

Money was no object for Swiftys. Dedicated 20K fans showed up without tickets to stay in parking lot to listen to sold out concert in Philly . 140 shows 2 year world tour , earns $13M per show, Taylor will be a billionaire.

 

[JD80]

Bolded is the biggest problem. From the earnings report it doesn't look like much is coming to change that anytime soon.

Your definition of "soon" isn't the same as TWDC's definition of "soon". They have signaled massive investment in the parks during quarterly calls. That's just not some marketing hype.

Unfortunately for WDW fans and for the TWDC they can't accelerate that right now.

You want a small hint on how "desperate" ops are at WDW? Look to how fast Tiana's opens and how short the CM/AP/DVC previews are. That'll show how fast they know they need something.

 

[GimpYancIent]

And if the Chiefs win the Super Bowl and Travis is the MVP watch out DL with increased attendance! When he's on the MVP parade float the day after the SB, you know who will be there the most popular singer on the planet , Taylor Swift.

Sooooooo DL will be inundated by swifties (probably all wearing KC #84 Jersies) but not really to cheer the Chiefs. I can see that.

 

[Jrb1979]

Money was no object for Swiftys. Dedicated 20K fans showed up without tickets to stay in parking lot to listen to sold out concert in Philly .

You missed the joke. All summer many were saying people were choosing Swift was the reason attendance was down at WDW

 

[Lilofan]

You missed the joke. All summer many were saying people were choosing Swift was the reason attendance was down at WDW

To make your kid float on cloud nine , seeing Taylor is more beneficial.

 

[JD80]

It's not just pricing and cost. Other vacation / trip / experience options available, entertainment trends and value of the experience. An equation that needs to be rethought and the Disney powers that be have thus far been unable to do.

There have always been "Other vacation /trip /experiences ... and trends" and Disney has always stayed firm. In the long term I suspect they will figure it out. Short term will suck though.

 

[JD80]

You missed the joke. All summer many were saying people were choosing Swift was the reason attendance was down at WDW

Everyone joked about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if some WDW trip budgets were cut because the family decided to do a Taylor Swift concert. I don't think it's a non-zero number.

 

[Jrb1979]

Your definition of "soon" isn't the same as TWDC's definition of "soon". They have signaled massive investment in the parks during quarterly calls. That's just not some marketing hype.

Unfortunately for WDW fans and for the TWDC they can't accelerate that right now.

You want a small hint on how "desperate" ops are at WDW? Look to how fast Tiana's opens and how short the CM/AP/DVC previews are. That'll show how fast they know they need something.

That investment isn't coming til closer to the end of the decade. IMO that's too late, especially if Epic Universe is a major success. The only they can't accelerate right now is cause streaming keeps losing money.