Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I can just see this trend going onto and into the summer.

The average lead time on bookings - except dvc who will FLOOD the place if attendance continues to collapse - is 15-18 months for domestic travel at wdw parks.

It’s expensive to still a huge chunk of their market.

These people “stopped coming” during the end of the second Covid year

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

With how good they supposedly are at sifting the data on us as consumers, you’d think they would understand us a bit better than they actually do…

Blue ocean

Hubris

They decided they could tell the customers what the data WILL be.

I’m not kidding

 

[bcoachable]

Blue ocean

Hubris

They decided they could tell the customers what the data WILL be.

I’m not kidding

Super interesting thought- would
Love to hear more about this - when is your book coming out? I’d pay to hear it on audible!!

 

[BlakeW39]

Disney’s internal data…after years of “appalling controversies”…particular in June…show that there are not enough of you to make a blip.

Respectfully, they would need more in Maryland, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Massachusetts and Ontario to have it blip on their radar.

WDW offers a unique, really inimitable product that is highly desired among consumers. They can marginally decrease the quality of that product over time and not reduce its demand at all. That's how genius the parks were from the beginning. They never needed to be that good to make loads of $$$. It's unfortunate but that's the reality. If people can afford them then they're going.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Super interesting thought- would
Love to hear more about this - when is your book coming out? I’d pay to hear it on audible!!

As soon at @monothingie agrees to be my ghost writer and @HauntedPirate agrees to illustrate…in crayon.

They both want too much.

 

[bcoachable]

As soon at @monothingie agrees to be my ghost writer and @HauntedPirate agrees to illustrate…in crayon.

They both want too much.

I do think we are due for a good “how the sausage is made” tell all soon…

 

[Disstevefan1]

Still about extracting money in ways not wise for longterm growth.

Which has been going on for decades with no end in sight.

OR are we starting to see something now?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I think it is fair to consider that the political position the company has taken does have consequences (rightly or wrongly) for park attendance.

I think movies are the area most at risk over politics, the risk to the parks is much less.

With millions of things to watch it’s easy to skip a movie and watch something else, it’s much harder to find a replacement for the parks.

This is also why I think Target will recover from their controversy pretty quickly but why I think BL may never recover, never drinking another BL is very simple because there’s thousands of alternatives, avoiding Target may mean driving further, paying more, or having to deal with Walmart, none of which are easy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

WDW offers a unique, really inimitable product that is highly desired among consumers. They can marginally decrease the quality of that product over time and not reduce its demand at all. That's how genius the parks were from the beginning. They never needed to be that good to make loads of $$$. It's unfortunate but that's the reality. If people can afford them then they're going.

That’s my point. The only time in its history people “stayed away”…except for one traumatic blip from certain areas…was when the money wasn’t there.

No reason to think otherwise now.

Shouldn’t be empty in June. Period.

 

[Bender123]

and how complicated they have made taking and enjoying a vacation there

This is my issue..

My main issue is that I dont want to drop $10k on a week long vacation with the kids, get nickle and dimed into poverty while I am there and spend my whole vacation buried in my phone trying to plan a counter offensive to get on that one ride. Disney isnt even a vacation anymore, its like taking the worst parts of an office job and making me pay for it, over and over and over. WDW is just not at the level they think they are and the juice hasnt been worth the squeeze.

Its to the point where I could take the kids on a European vacation for less, while seeing more and having far less stress.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Which has been going on for decades with no end in sight.

OR are we starting to see something now?

Hiding fees are very different than charging them as add ons.

There’s always a ceiling …to everything.
Good businesses know where it is…but allow a buffer between them and it.

That was how Disney parks were run in the past.

 

[Tha Realest]

The average lead time on bookings - except dvc who will FLOOD the place if attendance continues to collapse - is 15-18 months for domestic travel at wdw parks.

It’s expensive to still a huge chunk of their market.

These people “stopped coming” during the end of the second Covid year

One theory floated on Disney Dish was that all the 2024 discounts / initiatives (Dining Plan, no more park reservations) meant they were writing off the rest of 2023…

 

[Ayla]

That may be true for some. The rest of our family that usually goes to WDW in June are at this moment vacationing in South Carolina. We canceled June and are headed to other areas.

Yep. My "disney" vacations this year are/was a week each in Mexico, Canada and Gulf Shores.

 

[Disstevefan1]

This is my issue...Politics are pure crap on both sides of the issue, so its a wash from me.

My main issue is that I dont want to drop $10k on a week long vacation with the kids, get nickle and dimed into poverty while I am there and spend my whole vacation buried in my phone trying to plan a counter offensive to get on that one ride. Disney isnt even a vacation anymore, its like taking the worst parts of an office job and making me pay for it, over and over and over. WDW is just not at the level they think they are and the juice hasnt been worth the squeeze.

Its to the point where I could take the kids on a European vacation for less, while seeing more and having far less stress.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

One theory floated on Disney Dish was that all the 2024 discounts / initiatives (Dining Plan, no more park reservations) meant they were writing off the rest of 2023…

That’s not even up for debate.

They would have known that they couldn’t fill sometime late 2021 or the first half of 2022…so the discussions were then.

So what would good management do? Stop the bleeding…
Particularly selling Annuals late 2022 or early 2023. Just deal with the crunch. Dining plan - a misdirect but an effective one - could be going now. Those restaurants are ghost towns…

But what did they do? Claimed no one could resist it - publicly - again and again until the minute they knew the hotels and parks would empty out. Then do that stunt of “limited pass sales”…knowing the demand wasn’t really there.

They have the data at CRS…no surprises.

 

[monothingie]

With how good they supposedly are at sifting the data on us as consumers, you’d think they would understand us a bit better than they actually do…

Blue ocean

Hubris

They decided they could tell the customers what the data WILL be.

I’m not kidding

May I present the Disney Research and Analytics SVP

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

May I present the Disney Research and Analytics SVP

I picture the Miles or Jim character from Murphy Brown…

…actually a hybrid of both

 

[BlakeW39]

With how good they supposedly are at sifting the data on us as consumers, you’d think they would understand us a bit better than they actually do…

fat chance

That’s my point. The only time in its history people “stayed away”…except for one traumatic blip from certain areas…was when the money wasn’t there.

No reason to think otherwise now.

Shouldn’t be empty in June. Period.

no doubt.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Blue ocean

Hubris

They decided they could tell the customers what the data WILL be.

I’m not kidding

Exactly!! Since we’ll never get access to their actual data, they can and WILL spin it to no one’s advantage but their own.

 

[Weather_Lady]

and how complicated they have made taking and enjoying a vacation there

Amen!

The maddening levels of extra expense and complication are killing the joy of a Disney vacation for me.

I love the Disney bubble. I have amazing memories there, and I never minded the extra planning that came with things like FP+ in the old days, because it was there to help _me_, cost nothing extra, and was part of a huge bundle of amenities (like DME) that made a Disney vacation special. I didn't mind that a Disney vacation cost more than others, when I felt I was getting a vastly superior experience in return.

Nowadays, I have to do ten times the amount of work, research, and pre-planning, just to get the bare minimum of enjoyment, and have to continually make the choice between spending hundreds or thousands of dollars more on top of tickets, room, and food, or having our in-park experience suffer. (Nor is there any "rest" even if we decide to pay all that extra money, since ILLs and G+ do not guarantee availability for anything at any time.) Our next Disney vacation (August 2023) is for the purpose of using up the Disney gift cards we bought to pay for a canceled vacation 2 years ago. I'm excited to go, but relieved that after it's done, I can wash my hands of Disney World for a few years. I do hope to return someday, after we've checked out Universal's new park, if and when G+ is fixed or gone, park reservations and parkhopping restrictions are ended, I don't have to memorize which attractions offer virtual queues/standby/ILL/G+ and what the varied-and-changing "rules" are for each one, and we can enjoy a week-long vacation without being shuffled out of parks early on multiple nights so that Disney can resell the park that we already paid full price to visit for the day, to another group of guests. In the meantime, I just don't need the hassle.

Sorry to sound so negative, but the Disney vacation planning process in which I'm currently engaged (ADRs this week!) -- one I used to love and embrace with such enthusiasm that the planning was just as fun for me as the trip itself -- is what has done this to me. Instead of excited, I just feel exhausted and even a little embittered.