Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[monothingie]

They’re in a pickle here. Hundreds of millions in development costs, juicy revenue stream, physical infrastructure changes to accommodate it. Reducing it to a “free” add on also diminishes its value when/ if they start charging for it again.

But what happens when there is no one there to use G+?

It is unjustifiable to charge almost 50% more than this time last year for parks that are significantly less busy. It would be even more unjustifiable if they had data showing that G+ was a contributing reason for lower attendance.

 

[Disstevefan1]

No one is taking a political position. I think it is fair to consider that the political position the company has taken does have consequences (rightly or wrongly) for park attendance.

I highly doubt the political position the company has taken has anything to do with park attendance.

We all know for a fact that, for many years prices for everything in the parks have gone up and of course the addition of Genie+ ILL and PPRs are more likely to have an influence on park attendance in my opinion.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I have no problem with up-charge "premium" experiences as long as they don't impact the regular day guest experience. Lightning lane to Standby ratios can be absolutely atrocious, dessert parties taking over a good chunk of viewing areas for fireworks, After Hour Events reducing park hours, etc.

Agreed. And that’s the customer fail. Should have never let the clown out of the box with the cupcakes everyday and the after hours. They set you up and TOLD you they were doing it.

2010s were the Universal decade, and will probably continue through the 2020s as well. We can argue what were the better projects, but Universal caused Disney to act. Right now we're in a dry spell for Universal projects, but they really are pushing the envelope while Disney is still sitting on its laurels.

Universal would will be well served to just roll right in to a studios redo. Will roberts be allowed to spend the money to do it?

This time last year, I would typically wait 30-45 minutes at park close (I love joining the line at park close on the dot) but the last few weeks I've been able to just walk right into the preshow. Attendance is down, it's still busy, but not like last year.

How weird is it? I just saw the crowd glut and it was Almost shocking. The well dried up overnight on 4/15. I don’t shock easily.

I agree with your point, and Universal is lucky to have Diagon Alley and the special events at USF. For a lot of guests, I feel like FOMO will guilt them into visiting USF simply for Diagon and the (rumored) entertainment package for next year... hence the rumors of MSEP returning to WDW.

That’s what an effective anchor will do for a park. Disney invented that. But if you MISS…it does the opposite and sucks the longterm life out of the place.

Right now Universal is pretty much focusing on getting the parks fixed up for EU with smaller projects like Kidzone/Minions to keep it fresh while they work on projects for 2026+.

We’ll see.

I live in Celebration, have an AP, a devoted parks fan... and yet I still don't know anything about Genie or how to use it.

More power to you…but I always plead caution before we glorify the “pop over to Epcot for an hour in September” concept. It’s cool. Been there. But not the way the parks are designed to be consumed by most people. Those people are who they claim to love but have taken hostage in broad daylight.

It should raise attendance... but I think they are self-aware unlike Disney and are planning on boosting USF's appearance temporarily by giving it a nighttime entertainment package, smaller special events, and all of the refurbs happening throughout the park.

They need to redo 1/2 to 2/3 of the park. And unlike Disney I don’t think they’ll try to BS their public and act like that’s NOT the case.

See: Dinoland.

 

[monothingie]

Disney needs to be attractive to 100% of guests. It can’t afford to loose X% for whatever reason.

With regards to Central Florida, the answer seems to be elusive. You are correct about Record tourism to Florida, so the issue is probably a lot more nuanced.

MCO stated they had record passengers for Memorial Day weekend and USO apparently had capacity closings.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

People talk a big game about these social bump issues…but they are quietly going Anyway in the end. Disneys research knows that. A large portion that grabbed on to that one issue don’t have the cash anyway.

The problem for Disney is much worse than one bill.

The money appears to have dried up. If people could still afford it…they’d be there. Right now.

They can’t even get the wait times to go up (which they exploit) on their app. And the ride capacity was allowed to fall behind 20 years ago

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney needs to attractive to 100% of guests. It can’t afford to loose X% for whatever reason.

With regards to Central Florida, the answer seems to be elusive. You are correct about Record tourism to Florida, so the issue is probably a lot more nuanced.

MCO stated they had record passengers for Memorial Day weekend and USO has had capacity closings.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t know how much that’s affecting things. If you believe the recent statistics visits to Orlando theme parks are down across the board. Now, how much of that is “Family X is avoiding WDW because of political issues, and Sea World/Uni is catching a stray as they rely on WDW as a driver to the region” is anyone’s guess. But people are still visiting Florida in record numbers - it just seems the Orlando theme parks (not just Disney) aren’t benefiting from those travel tendencies.

So what’s the link?

I only see one. It’s not politics at all. The rest of the country, Canada and Western Europe - Sorry Florida - don’t care about Tallahassee or fights with a corporate monolith…

They come for weather, rides, salt and sugar…not much more than that.

 

[Disstevefan1]

This is about price. Plain and simple.

Totally agree. Maybe families are now only going to WDW once a year instead of twice year, two times a year instead of three times a year.

As for attendance for the sake of attendance, we know less locals are showing up because of the limitations of the APs these days.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

almost as if Universal is aware of the mistakes they've made and has tried to correct them? Whereas Disney is just utterly clueless and doubles down on their problems instread of fixing them

Though feels that might be changing - or at least trying to signal it is

Rather than tweak Harmonius, get rid of it all .... Rather than adjust Starcruiser, shutter it ... Removing park reservations (for most), bringing back the dining plan, saying they will change how G+ works, etc

Also feels like work on TBA is going a lot faster than other projects from past 5 years.

So, we will see how it all plays out but at least some signs they are trying to show they are aware of mistakes/changing things/putting it behind them

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Totally agree. Maybe families are now only going to WDW once a year instead of twice year, two times a year instead of three times a year.

As for attendance for the sake of attendance, we know less locals are showing up because of the limitations of the APs these days.

They appear to be bottoming out.

The thing that I can’t shake are the consumer credit stats. The US is largely maxed out.

You need tens of millions to be able to pay for it…and after record price hikes at home for 3 years…how do they?

The financials are as good at diverting attention as well as pols. “Record low unemployment”, “wage gains”, “stimulus funds” is what they pushed for the NYSE and NASDAQ…

…but it’s all sucked up. Gone.

 

[wendysue]

The money appears to have dried up. If people could still afford it…they’d be there. Right now.

That may be true for some. The rest of our family that usually goes to WDW in June are at this moment vacationing in South Carolina. We canceled June and are headed to other areas.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That may be true for some. The rest of our family that usually goes to WDW in June are at this moment vacationing in South Carolina. We canceled June and are headed to other areas.

Disney’s internal data…after years of “appalling controversies”…particular in June…show that there are not enough of you to make a blip.

Respectfully, they would need more in Maryland, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Massachusetts and Ontario to have it blip on their radar.

 

[bcoachable]

Magical Express being axed can’t be overlooked as an issue with lowered attendance imo. We are heading down to Orlando area to celebrate a birthday, last minute trip and all- We would have stayed on property and spent a day or two at the parks… would have been able to avoid renting a car IF we had the ME still available. Since I need to rent a car now, no way we are gonna pay into the extra cost of hanging out at one of their resorts, and thus, no need to hang out at a park now. Lots of better options for places to stay and things to do for way less-

 

[GhostHost1000]

This is about price. Plain and simple. There is no reason for wdw to be in a recession without the market crashing except for price.

and how complicated they have made taking and enjoying a vacation there

 

[wendysue]

Disney’s internal data…after years of “appalling controversies”…particular in June…show that there are not enough of you to make a blip.

Respectfully, they would need more in Maryland, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Massachusetts and Ontario to have it blip on their radar.

Well, we are Illinois, so maybe it's a start. The thing is, after paying thousands for AP's that used to get you into the park AND on the rides, to now be expected to pay through the nose just to be able to ride something is unacceptable. Sorry but the old FP system worked fine for us. Hey, everyone reaches their limit at some point. I know it's just a drop in the bucket but 13 of us have reached ours.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

and how complicated they have made taking and enjoying a vacation there

True…but that was all calculated…
Attempting to make the mice figure out a complicated “maze” and leaving their wallets for custodial to cleanup after they’re gone. Mandatory.

Still about extracting money in ways not wise for longterm growth.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, we are Illinois, so maybe it's a start. The thing is, after paying thousands for AP's that used to get you into the park AND on the rides, to now be expected to pay through the nose just to be able to ride something is unacceptable. Sorry but the old FP system worked fine for us. Hey, everyone reaches their limit at some point. I know it's just a drop in the bucket but 13 of us have reached ours.

No I hear you…and agree with you.

I think the movement away is much more easily attributed to genie and lighting lane…watch the dining plan create all kinds of problems when it comes back too…than politics.

There’s a lot of hinting that politics are making a dent and experienced analysis leads to the conclusion it does not.

At lease please tell me it’s not Myrtle?

 

[GhostHost1000]

True…but that was all calculated…
Attempting to make the mice figure out a complicated “maze” and leaving their wallets for custodial to cleanup after they’re gone. Mandatory.

Still about extracting money in ways not wise for longterm growth.

Very true.

 

[jannerUK]

I can just see this trend going onto and into the summer.

 

[bcoachable]

With how good they supposedly are at sifting the data on us as consumers, you’d think they would understand us a bit better than they actually do…